posted on March 22, 2001 01:31:08 PM new
Anyone following the news knows that Bush insulted the ruler of North Korea and placed our efforts at curbing nuclear missle tech exports. Yesterday, he let Russia know that they had their chance to get at Chechnia's vast ocean of oil -- now the USA is taking over! Bush is setting up diplomatic relations with Chechnia.
Then, in an entirely infantile move, he sends 50 russian diplomats back to Russia. Of course, Russia will retaliate with expulsions of their own against us. Cold War re-visited, anybody?
posted on March 22, 2001 01:33:44 PM new
Is it an entirely infantile move, or is it a security concern?
It's funny, I was minutes away from posting a topic about this. The thing I'm wondering about is the Chechynian thing. Are we setting up another Cold War?
posted on March 22, 2001 01:43:36 PM new
So, you don't believe that the Russians had contact with a spy, or do you believe that he wasn't a spy? Or do you simply believe that we should allow contact between alleged diplomats and alleged spies? What am I missing here?
posted on March 22, 2001 01:52:44 PM new
Of course we're setting up another cold war. He needs it to push his Star Wars argument. How are you going to get a missile defense system if you don't have a bad guy. You create the bad guy (or two).
posted on March 22, 2001 02:04:46 PM new
There are plenty of real bad guys without creating a new one.
There are other ways of expressing our displeasure with Russia's doing things like selling nukes to Iran then by meeting with a Chechen rebel. It's a deliberate poke in Russia's eye. If the U.S. has grievances with Russia, there are more diplmatic means of resolving them. How would the U.S. feel if the shoe were on the other foot?
posted on March 22, 2001 06:09:04 PM newjamesoblivion:, "Is it an entirely infantile move, or is it a security concern?"
Iswanson:, "What am I missing here? "
James, our diplomatic relations with Russia is extremely complicated. It only takes someone of no knowlege or experience in diplomatic affairs to complicate future relations. Such is the role that Bush plays. YOU voted for him, now take your humiliation!
Iswanson, if we kicked out every spy from every government in America, we wouldn't have any foreign embassies in America; nor would we have any in other foreign countries. Spying is part and parcel of the game.
But what Bush has done was to send a Clear Message: "We're the 800-pound Gorilla and we're going to walk all over you!"
All well and good, you are probably saying to yourself. But there are MANY times when being an 800-pound Gorilla doesn't mean jack. How about the next time that we want the Russians to do us a favor, as they have been doing? What about Russia seeing America as a real threat and dump their system of democracy in favor of a Fadist government or back to a communist one? AND -- the Russia NEVER FORGET this sort of insult. We WILL be paid paid IN-FULL in the future --- you can bet on it!
God, how I wish Gore was President of the United States instead of this imbecile!
posted on March 22, 2001 06:56:31 PM new
The Bush regime is not wasting any time making some agressive moves. Bombing described as "routine" and now the beginning of a cold war.
Why, when the United States was virtually unchallenged as a military
power was it necessary to put a
general in charge of US foreign policy?
Although Powell was not an unpopular choice, in comparison to Bush's
other appointments, it does seem unusual to me.
posted on March 22, 2001 07:03:24 PM new
Colin Powell was the National Security Adviser under Reagan. He has a fine background and resume. He's also a Republican (of course) and (dare I point it out?) an African-American.
Why shouldn't he be the Secretary of State?
Besides, Powell isn't trigger-happy, as was pointed out in another thread.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:22:24 PM new
The point ought to be made here WHY Bush is having his Puppet Strings pulled in this direction. The "break-away" republic of Chechnia is sitting on a vast sea of OIL! This is why the Russians are so determined to hold onto it. Like the Gulf War, this is a matter of Oil Companies trying to get at MORE PROFITS. So, yesterday, Bush shocked the known diplomatic world by announcing that they were going to give diplomatic recognition to Chechnia; e.g., that Chechnia was a seperate country. That's like Russia formally acknowledging that group of Texas Seperatisits that Dubya used to belong to, treating their claim to seperate from the USA as valid -- spitting right in our faces!
So today, to further this new WAR with Russia, 50 Russian diplomats are deported. It's a "See If You Dare To Defy Us" kinda thing. The Oil Companies, like the ones owned by VP Dick Cheney and the Bush Oil Empire, are sending the message that the Oil Companies are going to take over their territory and kick the Russians out. And if America HAS TO send in the troops -- no problemo!!
Pretty soon, the churches will be given their marching orders: Hate The Russians - Save Chechnia from Russian Aggression! As always, Republican church members never question anything that they're told to believe or ever look up the facts for themselves, and so -- we'll be all ready to put GROUND TROOPS IN CHECHNIA to protect Bush and Cheney Oil Wells!
Sound far-fetched? Remember the Gulf War and our "oil interests"? It wasn't OUR, the American People's, interest -- it was that BUSH, Cheney, and other oil concerns had (has) their stake in Kuait and Sadaam was going to take it away from him. So, in the Most Massive Abuse of Presidential Power in the History of the United States of America, Bush sent in our troops to DIE so that he could regain his oil wells and PROFIT.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:53:31 PM new
I think you're mistaken about him establishing diplomatic recognition. The only thing I've seen about it is that an American official will meet with a guy who is their equivalent of foreign minister. I think that is a poke in Russia's eye, but it's not nearly the same as official recognition.
posted on March 22, 2001 08:55:08 PM new
Just wondering -- the Gulf War had bipartisan support in Congress and the support and participation of the majority of the world.
posted on March 22, 2001 09:02:15 PM new
Oh, no question, I think it's a wrong move. There's no reason for it. But it doesn't help one way or the other to report false things.
posted on March 22, 2001 10:00:41 PM new
CNN reported that Russia was upset over the fact that Bush had announced to start up diplomatic relations with Chechnia. You can't have diplomatic relations with a country that you haven't recognised. Protocal. That's why the Russians are so mad about the announcement (c, follows b, follows a -- right?)
We don't need to be doing this right now -- there's so much going on back home that we don't need new troubles. Oil Companies: President and V.P. -- same thing!
posted on March 22, 2001 11:41:33 PM new
Maybe you should look at the scenario a little closer to home.
Many Francophone residents of the province of Quebec wish to seperate and become a seperate nation. The last time they voted (referendum) on the issue the vote was on the side of staying with Canada......but the provincial government is at this moment (and has been for the last number of years) is a party whose ultimate goal is to become seperate.
So---should BUSH approach Quebec in the same manner that he has approached Chechnia??---Quebec has huge hydro-electric resources--the St. Lawrence Seaway--etc.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:48:16 PM newIn an hour-long phone call, Powell also said he told Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, "We consider this matter closed."
But Moscow doesn't agree.
Asked whether Russia would kick out a similar number of Americans, Ivanov told NBC and CNN, "I think so, yes. I think that you won't have to wait long for our response."
Sergei Ivanov, chief of Russia's influential Security Council, told Polish television his country will get its revenge "in a more painful form to the U.S. than it was in our case."
"We have time to think, to carefully pick from among more than 1,000 U.S. diplomats in Russia, to choose those 46 who are most precious to the Americans," he said.
posted on March 23, 2001 02:10:27 PM newBorillar, Thanks for the info. After listening to several news reports on the subject I'm more able to understand your reaction.
As for Duh'bya's heavy-handedness, I get the feeling that he wants to appear as strong as an international statesman as his dad appeared to be. Unfortunately all he appears to be is a brute incapable of any finesse in handling situations that need tact or delicacy. I too would love to know what's really going on in Powel's head about now.
posted on March 23, 2001 11:32:10 PM new
Yer welcome, Iswanson! Remember: follow the Money trail -- it leads to a vast ocean of oil underneath Chechnia -- and your children or grandchildren will have to give up their lives in warfare to protect Bush Empire oil wells as they did for Bush Sr in the Gulf War. Don't think that for a minute that Russia is going to blink or roll-over on this one. Count on it!
About Powell: I wonder if he'll concider a Winter Offensive in Russia if they won't back down and let the oil companies steal everything?
