posted on March 23, 2001 09:40:28 AM new
A Florida court sentenced the 14-year old boy in the wrestling case to life in prison. The judge said he should have known the difference between TV wrestling and real wrestling.
posted on March 23, 2001 10:00:22 AM new
His mother turned down a plea bargin for 3 years in juvenile detention...she decided to go to trial...wonder how she feels now?
posted on March 23, 2001 10:16:06 AM new
This is a horrible situation. There are absolutely no winners here. The problem is she did not just have one injury - she suffered a BRUTAL beating before she died. One of her internal organs was ripped in half! I know he may only be 14, but he brutally beat her to death. The injuries I heard about were horrible.
I keep wondering why was there so much rage in that young boy? What could have made him so mad?
AND if he had the capability to do something like that now - is he our next serial killer?
This world is getting really scary. When they took the power of discipline away from the schools and the parents the kids started running things. That is terrifying!
When I was young my father had an incredible gun collection. High powered rifle, sawed off shotgun, civil war relic, you name it. They were left out in the open yet we dared never touch them. Why?
Because my Dad would have beat the sh*t out of us for touching them! Not because they weren't cool (they really were), but because they were HIS.
I hope the "Barney" generation that is coming up is not like this set of kids. If they are the same, we are in for alot of trouble.
posted on March 23, 2001 10:44:42 AM new
This is a perfect example on whether incarceration is the answer or not.
That there was a terible wrong done here is not the question; nor, in my mind, the youth of the perpetrator. The question is whether society is best served by keeping him locked in a cage for the rest of his life to keep the rest of us safe, or is there some treatment for this condition that would keep him from doing this again?
Until there is such a correct diagnosis and effective treatment, this person needs to stay right where he is for the saftey of us all.
posted on March 23, 2001 11:13:06 AM new
[quote]The judge said he should have known the difference between TV wrestling and real wrestling[/quote]
The "imitator-victim" surely must have noticed the slight difference in the size of his opponent(6 year old,48 pound,little girl)versus the 250 to 300 plus pound actors that he was trying to emulate.
[quote]Tate was found guilty Jan. 25 of beating Tiffany to death at his home. Tiffany suffered a fractured skull, a lacerated liver and more than 30 other injuries on July 28, 1999, from being punched, kicked, stomped and thrown.[/quote]
The little girl was dealt a death sentence.
My thoughts are with her.He can wrestle his way out of the mess that he's now in.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:02:34 PM new
when watching wrestling you see men and women being punched and kicked, jumped on, chairs broken over their heads, thrown over the ropes--over and over again. Those people stand up and walk away. If these same moves were done for real---you would have broken bones, blood and a few dead bodies
I have never seen any disclaimers on WWF that states that this is all play acting and that the wrestlers have trained and choregraphed the matches to try to insure that no one gets injured----
posted on March 23, 2001 12:19:14 PM new
Actually,they,(The WWF) were forced to admit that these matches were STAGED in a lawsuit a couple of years ago.Had something to do with back taxes...entertainment versus an actual sporting event.
They didn't want to admit this, but had to,due to the amount of monies that would have been owed to Uncle Sam.At least that's what I recall.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:23:20 PM new
What difference does it make if there is a disclaimer? No link was established between wrestling and this murder.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:29:10 PM new
"The judge said he should have known the difference between TV wrestling and real wrestling."
The judge even states something about TV wrestling---so the link it right there in the official sentence.
I really don't know enough about the case, this is just basically my own opinion---but if you want to do your own experiment on how kids view TV wrestling and it's reality---just go into a elementary classroom and take a survey ---or ask the neighbourhood kids (just don't ask them in a group)--one on one question.
posted on March 23, 2001 12:50:13 PM new
Didn't the judge preclude the defense from calling any experts who would've expounded on the violence/wrestling link?
posted on March 23, 2001 12:52:35 PM new
I don't know. I know he didn't allow the defense attourney to depose professional wrestlers to get them to testify.
posted on March 23, 2001 01:35:12 PM new
The crime was shocking in its severity. The judgement was also very severe.
Regarding wrestling, the WCW and WWF go out of their way to make the fights seem realistic. I remember when they first introduced baseball bats. Skulls being cracked, arms broken. And even though the fights are staged, many real injuries do occur. The wrestlers are all pumped up on steroids.
Take a look in your local toy store and you will see from the merchandising that wrestling shows are geared towards 7-8 year olds.
posted on March 23, 2001 01:48:42 PM new
This boy was TWELVE YEARS OLD and sentenced
to life in prison without parole. Serial killers don't get this kind of sentence.
Children develop a sense of permanance at
different ages..His mental IQ was tested to
be that of a ten year old.
As someone pointed out, the wrestlers bang
each other around and then they get up and
walk away.
The defense attorney was wrong to charge this
boy as an adult.
His lawyers were incompetent. They should
have accepted the plea bargain.
Hopefully, the case will be reviewed and overturned. This sentence is so callous that
it's embarassing!
posted on March 23, 2001 03:20:26 PM newHJW: Certainly there is a lot of emotions in this case. But I do not believe the question should be what is a "fair" punishment, but would it ever be safe to let him back on the streets ever again?
There is a section of the population who are so unconcerned with other people and focus only on their problems (sociopaths) and then you mix that with violent tendancies (acting out) and you get your serial killers.
Yet, we can not "untrain" an adult or teen so afflicted with this disorder. This kid has no idea why there is such a big deal -- just that there is one and it's landed him in lots of hot water. There's a real diffeence between the two.
But, unless this young man can be correctly diagnosed and treated for his illness so that he is safe to put back into society, he should never be let out of the controlled environment that he is in right now.
posted on March 23, 2001 03:41:03 PM new
If the 12 year old was incapable of realizing that he was hurting the other child...the adults who left them alone should be charged.
The six year old child had to have made it known they were being hurt....if the boy did not have the capacity to comprehend that he was doing grave damage to that child...he never should have been left unattended, much less with another, smaller child.
Quite honestly...I have a great deal of trouble trying a 12 year old as an adult. They do not have the comprehension of abstract that is neccessary for understanding death, a life sentence and many things that are important in trying adults intent. The crime was brutal, the crime was adult in nature, but the boy is still just a boy. Yes, there are consequences to actions and that must be understood, but it cannot be by children at the level neccessary to make this an appropriate sentence.
But, you know, I don't want this boy in my neighborhood...he is dangerous.
For those of you who say a life sentence is wrong...I honestly ask you...what is the "right" thing in this case. What should be done to young Mr. Tate and other children that have committed crimes such as murder, torture, etc? How do we protect out littlest from these children? I know there must be answers, but I truly don't think that it is to allow them right back into society.
posted on March 23, 2001 03:49:42 PM new
And the people who decide if they will be let loose have very little at stake. Let them take him into their house to stay with their kids and pets if it is so safe. And make them be responsible personally if he kills again.
Would they think it was worth the risk if THEY were risking something?
posted on March 23, 2001 03:51:53 PM new
I was just wondering...
There were other adults in this kid's life, e.g. teachers, uncles, aunts, friends of mother, etc. Did they not notice anything in this child that showed his violent capabilities?
Like grannyfox, I find it incredible that a child with such a lack of perspective on his actions could be left unsupervised. I know that often parents are blind to the faults of their children, but schools are supposed to be aware of developmental and behavioural problems. Did they not notice this kid's lack of self-control? His awareness of others' feelings?
I find it appalling that he has been charged and sentenced as an adult. He is a child, no matter what the crime he committed, and sentencing him to life imprisonment is the same as deciding he is throw-away. That there is NOTHING that will redeem him. He certainly needs to be taken away from society for at least a while, and I won't discount forever, but he should at least have the chance of rehabilitation, and of ascertaining what drove him to commit such a heinous act.
The kids in the Jamie Bulger case here have had the chance at rehabilitation - and their crime was utterly premeditated. I don't know if Tate "intended" to kill when he began "wrestling". I do know that kids can sometimes get carried away with doing stupid stuff, sometimes to ridiculous levels. It is about lacking the self-control that comes with maturity.
posted on March 23, 2001 03:55:38 PM new
I've been a wrestling fan since I was 4 years old.
Watched Bruno Sammartino slam Haystacks Calhoun right through the ring at the Newark Armory. Knocked all the lights off the ceiling, and the ring collapsed.
Saw Superstar Billy Graham, Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan, The Iron Sheik, Sgt. Slaughter, and The Ultimate Warrior all win the prized Heavyweight titles.
Saw Buddy Rodgers battle Ric Flair, and Watched Jimmy Snuka splash Baclund off the top of the cage.
Hell, I saw Stan Hansen break Bruno's neck, and Larry Zybysko clock him with a chair only to get his ass whipped in a cage by Bruno at Shea stadium. FOR REAL!
Saw Andre the Giant and The American Dream Dusty Rhodes pummel Ken Patera and Big John Studd.
Me and dad had to give David Von Eric directions to get into the lockeroom at the Garden, and I took a piss right next to Tony Atlas in the mens room at Slotzkis.
My dad was very good friends with Joe Dubronski(Ivan Putski) and Swede Hanson.
Never ONCE did I beleive that any of this was real, nor did I EVER try to destroy an infant.
posted on March 23, 2001 04:24:14 PM new
spaz...LMAO... I think your right! but I was 13, and it seemed more like a big deal then...(no pun intended) LOL
BTW: That night, Tony Atlas DESTROYED Hulk Hogan...Hogan was just a rank newcomer then.
posted on March 23, 2001 07:48:49 PM new
Sorry to say that there is not a fix for everytrhing.
Medical help is fine for fixing a broken leg or stopping an infection - but if you have a mental illness or have simply not been trained to have a conscience or relate to reality there is little help that is not based on the opinions and culture of the doctor rather than any hard research about how the mind works or how personality is generated.
We are just starting to get drugs that will allow some of the common and recognized mental problems to be treated but the diagnosis is still at a witch doctor level.
You can't run a blood test on someone and say aha - we have this marker here that shows you have such and such illness. It is still a subjective evaluation of symptoms.
If someone has never been instructed in empathy and is so selfish and brutal that they can not function in society is it valid to say they are sick? If there is nothing wrong with them that would have prevented learning to be a decent human being but the potential was never used?
Does anyone really know what you do to fix a 12 year old person who has no conscience at all and can kill brutally with no remorse?
It sounds like trying to ubscramble an egg.
It is fine to say it should be done but how?
Especially how when you have his mother making excuses for him. Do you fix her first?
posted on March 23, 2001 08:14:26 PM new
I have my degree, Julesy. Its right there on the wall. All them fancy words and such. I can even tell people their future (see the phsychic(SP?) thread). And right up there with all the degrees is my spelling bee awards
posted on March 23, 2001 08:24:15 PM new
Hi Hepburn. I am currently completing my undergraduate degree in history, and plan on offering medical consultations here on AW afterwards. I think that's the way it works.
posted on March 23, 2001 09:21:26 PM new
I don't pretend to have all the answers.And I do believe in giving the benefit of the doubt.In this case,the benefit of the doubt should go to all those,who have not yet demonstrated this type of behavior.
It is incumbent of a society to protect the innocent,and it's most vulnerable members....FIRST.
This youth crossed that line with this crime.He now walks with the outlaws.Despite all his needs,he must now get in line and wait his turn.Society is busy right now protecting itself from the likes of youngsters like him,and other monsters that go to schools with guns and an agenda.
Just the way it is.
This topic is 7 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new7new
. Its right there on the wall. All them fancy words and such. I can even tell people their future (see the phsychic(SP?) thread). And right up there with all the degrees is my spelling bee awards