posted on March 26, 2001 01:02:32 AM new
I don't believe that I have seen this topic here, but I may have missed it. What do you think about reparations for African Americans?
I think it is something that will only divide this country further. The United States has paid trillions of dollars to try and makeup for what was done a hundred years ago. I believe those that are spearheading this movement are looking for another handout. What do you think? The black reparations movement is expecting to have their first case filed against the US government by early next year, they are also filing suit against those companies who they feel participated in slavery. I may be getting dramatic, but I think if this continues that we will be looking at another Civil War.
I shudder about the people who don't shudder at all.
posted on March 26, 2001 01:13:15 AM new
'Cause I wanted to, and that is usually what someone is doing when they are leading a campaign. Why, what meaning are you reading into it?
I shudder about the people who don't shudder at all.
posted on March 26, 2001 01:16:52 AM new
That is a good idea!(Reparations), I had some relatives who died in the Civil War. Fighting to ensure the Afro-Americans freedom, whats that worth?
posted on March 26, 2001 01:17:47 AM new
For you krs, from dictionary.com.
spear·head (spîrhd)
n.
The sharpened head of a spear.
The leading forces in a military thrust.
The driving force in a given action, endeavor, or movement.
v. tr. spear·head·ed, spear·head·ing, spear·heads.
To be the leader of (a movement, for example): “spearheaded the effort to offer classes in settlement houses [and] provide lecturers to women's clubs” (Catherine Clinton).
I shudder about the people who don't shudder at all.
posted on March 26, 2001 01:24:28 AM new
Egads, a smiley, are you ill? That surely could not have been directed at me.
I shudder about the people who don't shudder at all.
posted on March 26, 2001 01:42:35 AM newsnowydays,
I fear that your feelings are right. Whilst I am not from your country we have a similar moral problem here in Australia in regard to our Aboriginals. Similar situations can be found with many nations throughout history.
Over time, many things have happened to many races. Sometimes through aggression, sometimes greed and sometimes with best intentions at heart.
With the passing of years and the benefit of hindsight these ideals may be seen from a different perspective.
I do not know the right answer, but I do believe that todays generations should not be held directly responsible for the deeds of the past.
That does not mean that I am callous to the past, simply it means that what has happened has happened. Let it go and move onwards and try to build a better world for all people, tempered by respect, kindness and reasoning.
I am sure that by people working together and not against each other, much more will be achieved for the benefit of all nations and peoples.
posted on March 26, 2001 02:25:30 AM new
While I do not pretend to understand how your country handles these matters, I do know how Australia handles the same sort of issue so I will comment on what I think is happening.
Our Aboriginal and Islander people receive many benefits that the everyday white Australian does not. Why are they paid these extra benefits? Because they protest that the white man came and stole there land. Now this happened a very long time ago, before any of us, as well as our grandparents and even great grandparents were born.
I do not see that any country should have to pay for mistakes made before any of us were even on the drawing board. Why should we have to pay out billions of Tax Payer funded payments to make up for something that we did not even have a hand in making happen.
We are all given chances in this life, it is up to us to take advantage of what we have and to make the most of our lives. Not expect to get handouts left, right and centre just because we have a different colour skin. After all it is not as if these people, (the ones making all the noise about this issue now), were taken away from there country and planted in a strange land, this happen a very long time ago. Do these same people call America home or Africa ??
Bob, I agree with what you have already said, especially the part about Today's generation should not be held directly accountable for the actions of the past. To me this means we should not have to pay compensation to them.
posted on March 26, 2001 03:55:46 AM new
How about me? My grandparents come over in the wave of immigration after 1900 when the era of slavery and the Civil War were both over. Why should they owe anything? They had nothing to do with it.
Also deduct the cost of the Civil War and all the damage and death that decided the issue from the total reparations. Then after that is deducted apply the tax for it only to those who can be documented to have had slave holding ancestors in the country before the Civil War.
Also split the kitty with the Indians with appropriate extra shares for land loss and a half share for all Quakers and other abolitionists who put their life and treasure on the line to end slavery.
New book just came out - JOHN BROWN : The Thundering Voice of Jehovah by Stan Cohen which is a heavily illustrated bool about the fellow HUNG in 1859 over opposing slavery.
posted on March 26, 2001 06:43:53 AM new
I have a problem with it that is a combination of both kcpick4u's and gravid's above. On my father's side, my ancestors fought - and died - in the Civil War, believing that slavery was an evil that needed to be eradicated. Will that lawsuit tell me at what point I owe them anything?
On my mother's side, my grandparents came to America just before World War I. They had nothing to do with slavery whatsoever. Are they guilty too just because they are white?
Finally, even black people will be paying for the reparations themselves through taxes.
I do believe that governments should be responsible for the actions taken by earlier administrations. However, the actions taken by those earlier administrations were not illegal and slavery was practiced in many other parts of the world at the time.
I'll be watching to see the outcome of this most interesting legal case.
edited for syntax
[ edited by Borillar on Mar 26, 2001 06:45 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2001 07:41:35 AM new
So many people celebrate the accomplishments of their countries and express a full willingness to share in the national pride in those, while those same people when confronted with the responsibility for the atrocities performed in pursuit of those national accomplishments say "Wait! That wasn't me, and it wasn't my grandparents either--why should I pay? And besides, those things were not illegal according to OUR laws at the time and they were being done all over the place".
posted on March 26, 2001 07:56:59 AM new
If money is to be paid for wrongs done from way back when, then sights should be set on the original countries that the crime began and the peoples involved. Slavers purchased slaves from conquering (winning) armies, family members who wanted so and so gone, enemies of neigboring landowners, etc. The slavers purchased them, took them overseas and resold them. So if the middlemen need to pay for those mistakes, then so does the point of origin.
posted on March 26, 2001 08:00:33 AM new
The assessment of responsibility lies at the basis for any type of reparations settlement.
The United States has paid reparations to more than a few groups or individuals where its responsibility for the suffering and damages has been obvious. The Americans of Japanese descent interred during World War II is the most recent example.
I don't believe that reparations for slavery are possible because the responsibility cannot be clearly assigned to the United States, or any company, group or individual.
And assuming responsibility could be assigned, I don't believe that there is any way to make reparations to the affected parties as slaves and their immediate descendants are all dead.
If it can be shown that the United States was indeed culpable for slavery then perhaps some sort of acknowldegment of that should be made. Even demonstrating culpability on the part of this country is a tenuous task given the many individuals and groups who opposed slavery in the most vigorous ways. Indeed, slavery was abolished in many states long before it was abolished throughout the country. What then is the responsibility of those states? And how is the responsibility mitigated by those who opposed slavery?
We can do something to redress the more recent wrongs in our county's history. But as events recede further into the past we can do less and less.
posted on March 26, 2001 08:12:15 AM new
Before it even comes to the issue of culpability there is no historical precedent for reparations being paid to descendants of victims. Also, a case could be made that the Federal government doesn't bear full responsibility for an institution that the country inherited and the Fed. gov't ended, albeit late enough that we can't exactly ignore the government's tolerance of it either.
There are so many angles to the can of worms that would be opened, everything from the divisiveness it would create in this country to the odd situation of the recipients having to show proof of their slave heritage (and how many possess such proof? and if they don't, is it fair that this one gets reparations because he happens to possess some old document and this one doesn't? but it would also be necessary, because not all black people in this country are descendants of people who were enslaved in the United States).
But this is all abstract because it won't happen. I feel badly for the people who are being sold a myth that they might receive such reparations and are only going to be dissapointed.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Mar 26, 2001 08:12 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2001 08:44:54 AM new
"Being sold a myth" is right. There was a woman being interviewed on the news the other night who said she'd been assured that each black person in the U.S. would receive $500,000 each. By a scam artist who is going around asking for $50 from black americans "to ensure" that they get that money. She fervently believed this. Now let's be realistic: there are (according to the census bureau) 35,332,000 black Americans...that would be an expenditure of $17,666,000,000,000! That poor gullible woman is doomed to disappointment.
If there were any surviving slaves, then I say "make reparation to those survivors." But there aren't. It's now two hundred years after the fact & much too late to be considering this. No one living today had anything to do with slavery. Many (even blacks) are descended from people who came here *after* the ended of slavery. I would be against any such payment.
edited to get rid of extraneous "but"
[ edited by bunnicula on Mar 26, 2001 09:12 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2001 09:00:47 AM new
Perhaps we could pick a fairly large land mass but not a continent and take it over being sure to kill ALL the residents so there are no future claims from them and allow all the people who do have claims to move there with a good plot of land and a cash settlement to start anew BUT to do so they would have to give up their US citizenship.
That should be no problem since it is such a symbol of oppression. Shri Lanka or better yet Madagascar should be big enough. Europeans who want to give their portion of North America back to the natives as a matter of principle could move there also. I will take a nice little clove farm on the water in that climate.
posted on March 26, 2001 09:34:01 AM new
It does not matter if there is a snowball's chance in hell of it happening, the fact is they are filing suit, think of the money that the government is going to shell out to try and fight these suits.
I shudder about the people who don't shudder at all.
[ edited by snowydays on Mar 26, 2001 09:37 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2001 10:41:04 AM new
$17,666,000,000,000 is only a little more than $1.6 Trillion. It would take a least 10 years to be fully implemented too.
posted on March 26, 2001 12:50:10 PM new
While they are seeking to get reparations from the U.S. goverment. They should go after the African goverments & peoples. A number of their native African ancestor's sold many African people into slavery! Big business over there at one time.
