"A battle is brewing in Mississippi over a state law requiring a sign reading "In God We Trust" to be posted in every school classroom, cafeteria and auditorium.'
I never did like that "In God We Trust" motto. I'm not an atheist, but it seems to me that you have the freedom to believe in any religion in this country, just so long as you believe in one. Are Atheists unwelcome then in Mississippi and the rest of the country?
The following excerpt is from one of these sites in which they are promoting
and selling the posters.
"I hope you will order at least three of these posters, frame them and present them to your local school for hanging. We will send you three copies at a cost of only $10 and we will pay for shipping. Can you imagine the wailing from the ACLU when they realize they are helpless to remove these posters?
That, in itself, is worth $10!
posted on March 26, 2001 06:18:33 PM new
T%hanks for those links, Helen. So that's the whole point behind this Mississippi thing.
You know, I always thought that the historical hallmark of this Bush administration would be the raping and pillaging of Americans and their rights; but I can see now that it won't be so. With the Conservative Republican politicians in power, I think that organized religion is going to take a thrashing in this country, with Bush leading the way. It will be the hallmark of this administration that it brought State v. Religion to a head - and had it chopped-off. The question is, will the American people still be willing to sit there and do nothing if the funadamentalists win?
posted on March 26, 2001 08:13:07 PM new
I was interested to note that Thomas Jefferson and Benjamine Franklyn and a few others who signed the Declaration of Independance had an interesting religious view. Purportedly, they felt that God had come, created everything, and then split and has been MIA ever since. This was why they wrote about a "Natural" god instead of a Christian god supposedly. It is one of the reasons to argue in favor of seperation of church and state when how it was supposed to have been viewed by the framers of the constitution. I never felt that the First Amendment was Christian in the least. More likely, it was to protect us from the power of Christian and other organized religions. Funny how these things get twisted and accepted into the mainstream of our American mythology.
posted on March 26, 2001 10:01:24 PM new
I saw an ad somewhere loking for God helpers. You'd think at first that he could find many qualified applicants in Mississippi, wouldn't you? I did, until I realized that I was reading the ad as a first requirement.
The state of MS will vote on March 17th to keep the current state flag which flys the confederate symbol or to adopt a new flag with a circle of stars. So far 55% want to keep the old flag. 38%(? something like that) want the new flag, and the rest could care less. It will cost 2 million dollars to hold the special election.
Proposed flag:
Current flag:
posted on March 26, 2001 10:39:00 PM new
Yes, considering I haven't been here in months and this is the only thread that I have clicked...and I was typing. Very very strange. Creeps.
posted on March 26, 2001 10:49:29 PM newjt: what's really funny about the info in your second link is that all the behaviors mentioned in the defeated bill are ones that were, only about 20-25 years ago, once considered the norm for students (& young people in general) everywhere. How funny that in days when so many people are calling for a return to old-fashioned values that a bill calling for basic good manners is defeated.
posted on March 27, 2001 06:35:25 AM newAbout the second link by jt...
First thing that I learned as a 12 year old and moved from Mississippi to New York was how to say yes and no....rather than "Yes, Ma'am" and "No, Ma'am."
My reply of "Yes Ma'am",to my first teacher caused so much laughter that it is still
ringing in my ears.
posted on March 27, 2001 08:07:05 AM new
From the link in the first post...
"They have threatened to sue, and our law center will defend if the state wants us to," he said. "It's the motto of the United States. We felt it would be important to put those (posters) in the classrooms. ... We're in bad shape when you can't post the official motto of the United States."
An exercise in circular logic if ever there was one. Organized religion is the very reason it has become the official motto of the United States. Interesting that, of all the inspirational quotes from the nation's history to choose from, the one considered "important" enough to post in classrooms is one with a religious reference. Nothing quite like patriotism with a (not very well) hidden agenda.
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania...
posted on March 27, 2001 04:29:23 PM new
If the outcome of this Mississppi court battle is that the motto is removed from our coins, I'll laugh until I hemorraghe.
posted on March 27, 2001 08:03:53 PM new
There is a public school in Pearl MS that has authorized prayer in school. (Actually I think there are others in MS too but not sure which ones.) Last year Pearl voted, school, community, student body, teachers, school board as to whether there would be authorized school led prayer in their school in the classroom, at ballgames, etc. The outcome was all in favor, no opposition. Not one person opposed them. They geared up emotionally to battle the US government, to be on CNN. So far, still no opposition, no news reports, nothing.
Their band marched in the inaugral parade for George Bush this year as well as the last Macy's Parade. They are a school that had a major school shooting incident a few years back.
Many feel that the public schools should go back to reflecting the COMMUNITY in which they educate. In some places that might be a very diverse objective.
We hs, so I don't have an opinion.
(or IS that an opinion of sorts?)
Trivia questions:
1. In what city does the "minority" account for 70% of the population?
2. What city in the US has the highest per capita crime rate?
I'm from Mississippi also and live in Maryland now. It sounds like the
schools there haven't changed much. You are very wise to home school!
Most of my relatives are in Jackson, and a small town, Terry which is not too far from
your area.
I'll take a stab at your trivia questions.
I think that Hartford Ct. is 70% minority.
I'll guess that New York City has the highest crime rate.
posted on March 27, 2001 11:40:42 PM new
I have two points to make:
First of all it amazes me how sincerely people feel about the "Separation of Church and State" - Not that people have sincere feelings about the issue, but that so few of these people have a clue about what they are talking about. Everybody knows that there is a clause in the Constitution regarding the separation of Church and State - Right??? WRONG!!! There is not, nor was there ever anything at all even inferring that, or suggesting that in any way. It's amazing how many people will believe something if you repeat it enough times. The worst part of it is, is that this info is available to anyone that wants to look into it. If you feel that sincerely about a subject - study up on it a little bit, so you can discuss it somewhat intellectually. You'd be amazed at how many lies you'll uncover when you take the time to research something for yourself instead of just regurgitating something you have heard so many times. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE IN THE CONSTITUTION OR ANY OF THE OTHER DOCUMENTS THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON!!!!!!!!
My second point is this:
Is atheism a religion? Yes. Atheism is the belief that there is no God - that doesn't make it NOT a religion; after all Buddhists don't believe in God - that's a religion. Hindus believe in thousands of gods. In other words, in order for a set of beliefs to be deemed a religion, there need not be a belief in God. Therefore, Atheism is a religion. Now, I have said all of this to say, if Atheism is a religion, and Atheists are the ones complaining the most about "God" in the classroom (After all, Muslims and Jews believe in God, too, so it's not them that are offended by God in the schools)Why were we And our kids being forced to accept the religion of Atheism in the public Schools? Does that sound crazy? Think about it - we can't talk about God, but Darwinism is considered and taught as fact (even though - lest we forget, it is STILL the THEORY of Evolution, isn't it!). I actually believed that I evolved from a frog or something until I took the time as I got older to weigh the evidence. Why are we forced to learn Atheism. Shouldn't it be the religious community complaining about there kids being forced to learn Atheism in the Public Schools? Quit shoving Darwinism down our kids throats until you at least have some evidence to back up Macro-evolution (After all, it's been 150 years or so since the theory was asserted - Where is the evidence, where is the "missing link"? Where - Still Missing! If people would begin to use a little bit of logic in their daily lives, alot of things would begin to make more sense.
PS - for those of you wondering, I am not a religious man, perhaps a Deist at most. However, think about the things I say, and begin to investigate what's really going on.
posted on March 28, 2001 12:13:03 AM new
Oh gee, but you should have paid more attention, jlpiece, for nothing you say is new here at all.
I realize that with but 10 posts you probably haven't taken the time to learn the mechanisms available to you in this forum for searching out previous comments and associated threads on subjects which may be of interest to you, so please allow me to offer a bit of simple guidance.
If you scroll to the bottom of this screen you will find a set of clickable aids in the use of the site. Select "site search" and click. On the following form enter keywords of interest to you, perhaps "separation church state", check the box below your entry, and then activate the mechanism.
You should see that there is quite a lot of information available to you; information that can save you the need of posting any more lengthy and disassociated lectures of the type which you just have imposed.
If you do not care to go to that trouble of familiarizing yourself with your intended audience, would it be an imposition to ask that you pray for us?
posted on March 28, 2001 12:30:08 AM new
I have no objection to people praying, wherever they are.
I object to them praying in such a way that I am "included" in their prayer meeting, e.g. in a school assembly, within a classroom. I further object to my children being forcibly included.
They can believe what they want to, they can worship as they want to, as long as they do not impose their beliefs or form of worship on others who do not share their views.
In England, there is prayer in schools, with "religious education" part of the curriculum. Each school is supposed to have a religious assembly on a regular basis, that is drawn from Church of England (Christian) beliefs.
The school my children attend has a majority of children from Muslim and other faiths attending it. I would object very strongly if the school chose to impose a "Christian" flavour to its religious education, not just for my child but for others as well.
The school has been criticized by inspectors by not having a sufficiently "Christian" input to its religious education - but given the circumstances, I am absolutely behind the school.
If I was in a minority in a school that DID want absolutely Christian beliefs, I would be really angry at the imposition of another belief. It is not right.
You want prayer? Fine, pray, but in your own space, in your own time. You want morals? Fine, but teach them in a general way, without invoking "your" God.
What about the people who DIDN'T vote in the Pearl, MS school? Or was it a completely, 100% everyone-behind-it?
Freedom to conform, with complete indifference to differences. Tyranny of the majority. That's what it looks like to me.
posted on March 28, 2001 12:35:19 AM new
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God; that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship; that the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should `make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the
free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore man to all of his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties".
I think that you'll find that a famous father , the father of an evidently quite beautiful black child, wrote that.
http://w3.trib.com/FACT/1st.jeffers.2.html
Blind faith is one thing, ignorant belief is another.
