posted on March 28, 2001 01:03:21 AM new
A South Bend "Heavy Ten" toolroom lathe with tooling, taper drive, original cabinet and collets, and in excellent condition.
Even better would be a great price on a Monarch 10 EE, same setup with threading gearbox.
posted on March 28, 2001 07:03:14 AM new
What's that got to do with anything, bunny? Shopsmith won't turn stainless steel, or any steel for that matter.
posted on March 28, 2001 07:15:17 AM new
I turn wood, don't care about steel. Very versatile lathe on the Shopsmith, in addition to a drill press, horizontal bore, table saw, and up to 12 inch disc sander. All in one great machine that can be stored out of the way on one side of my garage
posted on March 28, 2001 07:49:42 AM new
Yes, I know and hate the Shopsmith. Won't hold to even a tenth of an inch reliably and you spend your time fiddling it from function to function.
I saw one, like new for sale recently for $195. Think it was in the yahoo classifieds.
posted on March 28, 2001 08:00:19 AM new
Jealosy? Of that thing? There's never been an adequate combo-tool made. Those things are fops to people without pride in workmanship.
But I brought the thread only to notify the users that I'm in the market for a specific type of machine, figuring to make use of the many eyes.
I think now that that purpose has been accomplished, so I'll ask that this thread be locked because of you, bunny, and you alone.
posted on March 28, 2001 08:11:38 AM new
South Bend webb site.
10 X 33 Toolroom Lathe
Base Price: $15,950
Model No. CL8187-RB 1,060 lbs. crated weight
Standard Features:
Hardened and Ground U.S. Cast Iron Bed
3 V-Way and One Flat-Way Design
Heavy Duty Cabinet
Single speed, 1 HP, 3Ph Motor and
Drum Control w/ 115, 208, 230, or 460 VAC
Belting and Motor Pulley
Thread Indicator Dial
5-5/8" Diameter Face Place
Single Round Tool Post
60° Centers and Spindle Sleeve
Chip Pan
Wrenches
Installation Plan and Manual
Taper Attachment
Handwheel Collet Closer
8-3/8 in. Diameter Face Plate
Micrometer Carriage Stop
posted on March 28, 2001 08:28:41 AM new
Yes, Fred. They've been making essentially the same machine for over 50 years, and used ones pop up in various condition for prices of between about $2000. and $6000.
There was a nice Monarch EE that went for $3300. in ebay yesterday, but it lacked threading gearbox and had been rewired.
There's a Hardinge on right now with a buy price of $9500. that I'm getting itchy about too. That's the premier toolroom lathe of all time which sells new now for some $35,000 tooled up.
The SB is good, and occasionally people luck into deals on them in which they've escaped industrial use. I know a guy who found one that was so good that the supplied tooling had never been unwrapped since 1962 when it was first sold to a govt. agency. He paid $2800. at auction.
So I'm looking to see if I can avoid the new price, but might ultimately give up and bite the bullet for one.
posted on March 28, 2001 08:40:17 AM new
KRS, you may want to look at school auctions. lots of great deals. Machine Shop auctions.
Large industrial companys such as GM & Ford now have on site auctions of shop tools that are no longer in depreciation. Metal Lathes go for next to nothing.
posted on March 28, 2001 08:54:50 AM new
Right. I am actively looking, and have found several SBs and Monarchs for sale, but they've all seen heavy use. Without being able to actually perform hands on measurements for true and wear in cases like those I can't see my way to purchase one which appears so rough in an onsite photo. So it's a like new machine from anywhere, or one I buy locally, or a new one from factory. Local prices run about double what I've found online, but there is a shipping factor that I've got to put into the balance. One reason for the South Bend is it's relatively light weight. The Monarchs and Hardinge equivelant models are right around 3200 lbs. I lie those two for their perfection of the type, but the South Bend will do the job nearly as well. Also the South Bends have been made in much larger quantity, so tooling and replacements are widely available.
The classification of "toolroom" is for precise capability. I need to be able to hold to tolerances of from .0001" to .0002". Most engine lathes won't do that very well, if at all.
What do you plan on using the lathe for? There are several other brands that might fit your needs perfectly.
Many of the manufacturers "private labeled" them and they go for less than the "name brand".
There used to be a poster here who can probably help you out. Trying to come up with his ID. I have his email addy. If you want, I can contact him and ask him to take a pop in.I think he sold machinery sometimes. I deal in the tooling end.
posted on March 28, 2001 09:49:51 AM new
Hi toollady,
Yeah, I know most of the private label crossovers, as well as the various 'clones' of South Bend over the years. Like the Clausing to Atlas to Craftsman mix. Most of those are not toolroom lathes, but were designed for home use. Same with all of the flood of imports. They leave important things off to save money and they go all out of whack almost every time they're used. I mean the Jet, Enco, Central, Bridgeport, and other ones from China mostly. I've called some of the online machinery sellers and they're on the lookout. One in CT may have that SB machine coming availabe if he can swing a deal with the owner that gives me a price while leaving some room for him. I'm hoping that he's able to pull it off as he somehow ships these things to the west coast for $500-$600. apparently without regard to the weight. Most of the freighters I've gotten estimates from want from $1000. to $1800. for a crated shipment.
I get used machinery catalogs all the time. Will keep a look out for you as well.
I hear you on the home use. I know that is not what you are looking for based on the tolerances you are looking to hold. Keep in mind even though the machine may only have a run out of .0001, most tools made are not as exacting. Then you have to take collets into consideration as well.
I've got four Hardinge toolroom lathes in the shop. We got the last one completely tooled, collets, four jaw and three jaw chucks, step chucks and closers in top shape for $8,000.
It was a local machine shop going out of business auction. You might want to keep your eye on the paper for local auctions. You never know.
Good luck with your hunt. If I hear of anything, I'll let you know.
My main workhorse in the shop for small, precision items is an American Turnmaster 13x30 ....made by the same company which makes Lagun mills and CNC equipment.
It uses a back gear for 80 to 400 rpm and then is continuously variable up to 3000 rpm...5 hp 3ph. It weighs in at 3400lbs without chucks or tooling and uses a D1-4 camlock nose and #3 MT.
Outfitted with (2) Buck 6-jaw chucks, a Bison 4-jaw, steady, Mitutoyo digitals and a KDK quick change, it ran me about 15K back in the late 80's
Even with heavy use, it still can repeat to within .0005" and hold to .0002" with good quality TIN or ALX tooling. The ways look like new (induction hardened with power lube) and maintenance has been minimal....it's about due for a main belt change (variable speed lathes use two wide belts on 2 sets of cones to vary the speed)
A lot of these lathes went to the military in the mid-late 80's (it was built originally as a military spec unit) so there should be some well tended units showing up on the market.
I looked at a lot of used Monarch EE's and Hardinge's before buying this unit and I'm glad I went with a new unit for my main parts maker....the price of new in the other lines was out of my price range...
BTW, my "beater" lathe in the shop is a South Bend 16 x 108...it's from a school shop and dates to the 40's and has an enclosed flat belt drive and plain spindle bearings....believe it or not, on a good day it can hold to within .002"....most of the slop is in the cross-slide....still, not a bad deal for 1200.00 with chucks and steady rests and a quick change...made that 100 times over doing hydraulic cylinder work...
Good luck in your search....with a slowing economy, you may see more equipment appearing on the market...keep those eyes peeled! *G*
posted on March 28, 2001 09:47:27 PM new
Thanks Pat, and RM.
I may have a hook in a good tooled up Monarch. It was sold, but the buyer looks to have welched. Gotta wait unti morning to find out if I can reel in in.
I passed on the Hardinge mentioned above. I looked like a good clean machine, but had I gone for the $8500. ask, I'd be sure to find a better deal day after tomorrow. That's how it goes with me.
As to military excess equipment; it used to be lucrative around here, but all of the bases were closed during the last administration and they've shipped everything off to Bremerton and who knows where.
I'm not going to need a lot of center to center, but do need a spindle bore of at least 1.3" with backgear speeds down to 40 or less.
posted on March 28, 2001 10:17:07 PM new
Yeah, I hear ya...
Buy the right one and you'll have it for a lifetime....no hurry...
It might be difficult to find a small lathe that gets into the 40 rpm range, mainly because the surface speeds of the swing don't justify it.....Lathes like the Monarch, with electronic speed control, will be the most likely candidates...
Only on bigger gearhead lathes like my 24x 120 do the rpms get down in the 15-20 rpm range...with the gap out, it can swing 32" so the surface speed justifies the slow rpms...
Nearly all small lathes for commercial use have a 37-40mm spindle bore so you should have no problems there.....
Just be mindful that a precision chuck (a Buck like mine is now over 1K), quick change and basic indexable tooling will likely set you back about the same price as the lathe....then there's digitals (I wouldn't own a lathe without them)
This is definitely where a good used package deal can save you some big bucks...
