posted on July 9, 2001 06:24:10 PM new
Damon, that's great. There's no question PayPal has been innovative in anti-fraud measures. But the more you post these articles, the more I can see the gap between PayPal's perceptions and its customers' perceptions.
IMHO, PayPal thinks its customers do not understand or appreciate the tremendous amount of effort that goes into anti-fraud with a system of 8 million users.
That's probably true.
IMHO, customers think PayPal does not understand or appreciate the inappropriateness of asking for multiple personal data to unrestrict an account, taking action on accounts without explanation and taking extremely lengthy periods of time to resolve such matters, etc.
Also, probably true.
But overall, as I have said before, there has to be a balance and PayPal just doesn't have it. I'm sure no one who works at PayPal would tolerate having their bank account or credit card locked for months because of a "possible" fraud.
"But overall, as I have said before, there has to be a balance and PayPal just doesn't have it. I'm sure no one who works at PayPal would tolerate having their bank account or credit card locked for months because of a "possible" fraud."
This only impacts the PayPal account. Users bank accounts, and credit card accounts, are not impacted.
The personal information that is asked for is the same information that the user has on file (if they put a bank account/credit card on file). All we need is the physical documentation to prove that it is the same.
I also will point to the fact that you seem to think that every account that is restricted shouldn't be, which is interesting (since you do not have access to the account records). If it pleases you, I can tell you why the accounts were restricted.
I will also state that I do know that legitimate (non-fraud) customers have been impacted by our measures, but that the problem can be rectified quickly with cooperation. I can apologize for that, but the cases that come to the boards are not indicative of overall response levels.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:02:10 PM new
I don't know how to say this without somehow offending the community guidelines, but you very frequently comment on statements the poster has not made.
I haven't said anything about the comments on the boards being indicative of your customer service levels. I haven't said anything close to what you ascribe to me to me in this statement: "I also will point to the fact that you seem to think that every account that is restricted shouldn't be."
When I say that I'm sure no one who works at PayPal would tolerate having their bank account or credit card locked for months because of a "possible" fraud I mean this as a comparison and parallel to bank accounts and credit cards.
As in, a PayPal employee (or anyone else) would not tolerate it if he or she had - for example - a banking account with Citibank and they froze it for months and without explanation for "possible fraud."
As far as your statement that "the personal information that is asked for is the same information that the user has on file" I do not see how that can be the case when PayPal asks for "driver license, bank statement, phone bill and credit card statement."
I don't know how to say this without somehow offending the community guidelines, but you very frequently comment on statements the poster has not made.
(No, I stick to what the facts are that I can review versus what company policy is.)
I haven't said anything about the comments on the boards being indicative of your customer service levels. I haven't said anything close to what you ascribe to me to me in this statement: "I also will point to the fact that you seem to think that every account that is restricted shouldn't be."
(Yes, you have. Quite frequently. You seem to feel that there is no legitimate reason for an account to be restricted).
When I say that I'm sure no one who works at PayPal would tolerate having their bank account or credit card locked for months because of a "possible" fraud I mean this as a comparison and parallel to bank accounts and credit cards.
(Again, all actions taken place are taken at the PayPal account level only).
As in, a PayPal employee (or anyone else) would not tolerate it if he or she had - for example - a banking account with Citibank and they froze it for months and without explanation for "possible fraud."
(Agreed. I am here to make sure that outstanding cases that have not been resolved are. All organizations, regardless of size, have items that slip through the cracks. Give me a company name and I will find hundreds of horror stories for you.)
As far as your statement that "the personal information that is asked for is the same information that the user has on file" I do not see how that can be the case when PayPal asks for "driver license, bank statement, phone bill and credit card statement."
I had left a very detailed explanation on the identification requirements in the past. I can re-post the why here:
1. Drier's license-supports ID of individual, which is handy if the credit card verification/bank account measures fail (as a result of the screening process through the vendor---or if the items were rejected by the institution).
2. Utility bill-matches street address to individual.
3. Credit card statement-matches credit card name to registering party.
4. Bank statement-matches customer name to the account on file.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:36:23 PM new(Yes, you have. Quite frequently. You seem to feel that there is no legitimate reason for an account to be restricted).
No, that is false. I am interested to see if the moderators take you to task for not showing me the respect that they expect other users to show you and each other.
I posted a very balanced and fair comment after your article. Your response was pointed, hostile and attributed things to me I have not said.
As far as the personal information, I did not ask for a why. I pointed out that your statement "the personal information that is asked for is the same information that the user has on file" did not concur with asking for "driver license, bank statement, phone bill and credit card statement."
I don't feel like going round-and-round in this thread, so please don't attribute things to me that I have not said...
posted on July 14, 2001 01:36:55 PM new
Well PalDAMON,
Fraud exists in the world. I am glad PAYPAL is a privately held corporation because I have only about 40 hours a week to ensure that you never pass SEC must and are able to go public. And oh yes, I have seen your extensive of impressive investors, and at least the US ones are going to be my target to stir up some boards of directors. What we really need is a boycott of PAYPAL. It is because your company is so cheap that you are not relying on credit bureaus to ensure that the inviduals you are deal with are legit.
Having said all of that, why did you not ask for my drivers license, my checking account number, a recent credit card statement, at the time I signed up and was accepted for entrance into the exclusive PAYPAL country club? I suspect because I would have told you to go to H@ll at that point and not wasted my time with a Nazi organization. I do business with 11 online services. Thus far I have used PAYPAL for 12 Ebay auction items amount to a grand total of about $1000. I assume like many merchant organzations anywhere you called to see if the credit card limit was sufficient. (I would hope it was since I carry a zero balance and it has a $15,000 ceiling with $5,000 overdraft protection.)
It is painfully obvious that PAYPAL is incompetent to deal with e-commerce or the letting of credit cards. I see PAYPAL is recruiting for attorneys. This is good, maybe one of them will understand about consumer rights and current credit legislation. PAYPAL can do business with whomever you would like. But you should tell people the rules of the game before accepting their applications, approving them, and then freezing out their accounts. Stoney Brody's problem stemmed from last November, yet you let me sign up in the last 6 weeks. Now PAYPAL will not let me cancel my account. Instead you want my drivers license (which has my SSN#), my utility bill, and a recent credit card statement, not to mention my checking account number. Well, fill up your scuba tanks instead of holding your breath, because you will see them when hell freezes over. Oh, and you WON'T let me cancel me account with PAYPAL. Gee, OK, I will just call my bank and cancel the credit card that you have. PAYPAL is out of control and I fully intend to dedicate myself to seeking greater regulation of what is happening here with the House Committee on Finance all relevant Banking Committees, spreading the word with friends that work with Senators and some of the Senators that I personally know. PAYPAL is involved in interstate commerce as well as communcations so the Dept. of Commerce, FCC and of course the SEC should all be notified of this as well as Consumer Protection agencies. I am not a Ralph Nader, but it sure would be good to get him involved, and then we tackle your anchor investors and complain loudly about how PAYPAL is trampling the rights of individuals and businesses and creating a gross invasion of privacy. So I will cancel my credit card, let PAYPAL go to the Devil - but you ain't seen nothin yet. Am I just full of hot air, maybe, but I have spent 20 years in Washington, D.C. and congressional members change, but staffers don't and I have testified before various committees of Congress on 4 occasions. The trick is going to be to get some of your anchor investors to pull out. What do you think will happen when one by one consumers and businesses get fed up and stop doing business with PAYPAL - well profits will shrink and so will Returns on Investment and investors will look for more profitable ways to make money. Been around nearly 60 years, spent 35 years in business, buy things online from everyone from J.C. Penney to K-mart to Amazon to LL Bean. What PAYPAL is doing is without precedent.
