posted on October 20, 2001 07:58:32 PM new
Dear Readers,
Would paypal ever give you the information where the money was sent. What I mean by this is when they request a check would they tell me the address, and name of the person plus the phone number.
posted on October 21, 2001 09:27:55 AM new
So after you get a subpeona you show it to paypal and they will give you all the info about the person. Also would the email carrier give us the info. Cause he had a email at mail.com
posted on October 21, 2001 11:05:09 AM new
It's a longer journey than you seem to anticipate. I'm not really intending to be discouraging, but the reason why most people don't get to the finish line is because it takes knowledge, energy, and money. It does not require a lawyer, but it does require a judge who has jurisdiction. Judges tend to express aloofness toward learning-at-the-moment legal efforts. If your reasoning is invalid, don't expect that to be overlooked and replaced with "fairness", and don't expect the judge to explain what you need to do. However, if you really persist, you'll likely obtain a subpoena.
Subpoenas are "served", a formal process.
You might be well served to obtain a Nolo Press book. Since many forms of legal tension involve subpoenas, the subject is covered from various perspectives.
Consider also that once your subpoena has been served, and you acquired your information, you may not have any obvious good courses of action. You might well be able to sue the seller in small claims court, but that might be impractical. You might be able to get the seller's local police involved, but most commercial transactions which result in financial loss do not involve criminal behavior. In particular, a judgement by PayPal that the seller was "at fault" does not imply criminal behavior. Generally, criminal behavior involves an intent to defraud, which is hard to prove in cases where the seller participated minimally in the transaction. So give some thought to what you will do with the information once you have it.
posted on October 21, 2001 11:20:50 AM new
If I did get a subpoena would I be able to sue him for more then the amount I paid for the item. Like legal costs, and all that junk.
posted on October 21, 2001 11:52:34 AM new
Understand what a subpoena is: an order from a judge for the target (PayPal in your case) to give you information known to PayPal. No more, no less. PayPal has to truthfully tell you what they know, but there is absolutely no guarantee as to the accuracy of what PayPal knows. PayPal is unlikely to provide enough information to prove your case without some strong additional evidence.
You can sue anyone for anything.
It's highly unlikely that you can expect to win enough in a lawsuit to make the lawsuit sensible over a small transaction. Thus, no lawyer is likely to accept such a case on contingency. Generally, you can't take a $1,000 dispute and leverage it into a $50,000 lawsuit.
posted on October 21, 2001 12:59:04 PM new
roofguy,
You seem very knowledgable concerning subpoena's. What is a "Nolo Press book" and what is "forms of legal tension". Thanks in advance for the information.
When you state, "Understand what a subpoena is: an order from a judge for the target (PayPal in your case) to give you information known to PayPal. No more, no less. PayPal has to truthfully tell you what they know, but there is absolutely no guarantee as to the accuracy of what PayPal knows." What happens if PayPal does not give the information to a police officer that has a subpoena signed by a judge?
[ edited by bburd51 on Oct 21, 2001 01:04 PM ]
posted on October 21, 2001 03:27:05 PM new
Nolo Press publishes a variety of legal books for non-lawyers. By legal tension, I was referring to any means by which one party attempts to legally coerce another. A a lawsuit and a divorce are examples.
Failing to comply with a subpoena will result in a citation for contempt of court, and eventually arrest. The authority of the subpoena comes from a court (a judge), not the police.
posted on October 21, 2001 04:15:14 PM new
So When You Say Failing To Comply You Mean The Person Who The Subpoena Is Directed To, not the person who got it.
posted on October 21, 2001 08:30:14 PM new
The person you are trying to FIND and maybe sue does not get the subpoena.
Paypal would. The subpoena to release the information would be directed to paypal. And, they would have no reason not to comply with a legal subpoena signed by a judge.
But, I have rarely seen a subpoena granted without a lawsuit having been filed.
posted on October 22, 2001 06:13:53 AM new
kidsfeet,
It is my under standing that the police can get a subponia. They ask the court(judge) that a subponia be granted because they need information to complete their investigation concerning a crime that has been committed. They do this by presenting evidence to a judge along with showing a need to know the information they are seeking. If the court feels there is justification in the request, the court will grant the police the subponia that is requested.
The fraud that occurred with my PayPal account is being investigated by the police. The police have gotten at least four subponia's issued by the court(judge) to aid in their investigation. The subponia's went to two different companies. I can tell you that the wheels of justice turn slow, but I believe that in the end justice will be served.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:40:27 AM new
bburd51, the POLICE, yes. An individual walking in off the street, no.
Someone like dacrazyvun would either need to go through the police, to file criminal charges, or get a lawyer, for a civil action, and there is no guarantee the police would give the information to dacrazyvun.
Civil and criminal actions are two completely different things.
And, even if there IS a criminal action, there is no guarantee you will see your money back.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:03:18 AM new
I would encourage dacrazyvun to file criminal charges with the local police, FBI, state attorney general or whoever will listen. You never know which one of these agencies will pick up the ball and run with it. Money may or may not be recovered, there might be some satisfaction if criminal is caught and dealt with.
All this aside, I find the real problem is PayPal and how customer service deals with individuals and their problems. From my experience, if you find yourself with a major problem, you are on your own to solve the problem.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:15:16 AM newAll this aside, I find the real problem is PayPal and how customer service deals with individuals and their problems.
While no one would say any customer service organization is perfect, this is kind of broad. Exactly what would you like them to do different?
posted on October 23, 2001 07:52:01 AM new
From my experience, the following should be done differently by PayPal customer service:
1. Have the customer service telephone number in a place on the web site that is easy to find.
2. Do not ignore the customer. If a call back is promised, call back. If a customer requestes information, give information that you can legally give. Never withhold information or help to the customer.
3. Stop using cut an paste responses which does not address the problem that the customer is having.
4. Asign a customer service representative to the problem until the problem is appropriately dealt. This customer service person should be a co-partner with the customer who is experiencing the problem. Both working to solve the problem.
5. Stop making the victim jump through hoops.
6. Follow the privacy rules that are posted on the web site.
7. Do not compound the problem by making more problems. For example, when I informed PayPal's customer service of unauthorized ACH transfers, a few days later I received communication (cut and paste notices)from PayPal of them charging my credit card because the bank returned the transfers back to PayPal. Not only did I have to deal with the unauthorized ACH transfers from an individual who committed fraud, but also more fraud when PayPal turned around and charged my credit card again for all six of the unauthorized transactions after being returned by the bank for fraudulent activity. I also feel that those individuals working in customer service are following PayPal's management policies. They are as helpless as the customers they are attempting to help. There was not one time that I felt like PayPal was on my side helping me to deal with what had happened.
More to be added later after the police and the state attorney general are done with their investigations.
posted on October 23, 2001 03:16:10 PM new
I agree paypal should really increase there support. It is very poor. I am not it shouldn't be alot of companies have bad cs( Custmer Support). This one of the wrost I have seen. It is slow. It is mostly cut and paste. They don't repond emails for weeks, months, maybe even years.
