posted on January 16, 2002 01:14:22 PM new
I sold a domain name to a customer who paid with PayPal (almost $500). After the funds were deposited in my account, I tranferred the domain registration to the new owner.
A couple of days ago I get an email from PayPal saying that the customer had lodged a complaint for goods not delivered or not as described.
I clicked the link that PayPal provided to respond to the complaint. I filled out their forms and stated that the domain had been transferred and that they could verify it by checking the whois registration. Problem solved (I thought).
I logged into my PayPal account a while ago and saw a pending reversal for the total amount less the PayPal fee.
Remember when PayPal told us that they will NEVER go into our bank account without our explicit permission? Well, now I know better. They DO NOT have my explicit permission to reverse the deposit (go into my bank account) for ANY reason, especially over a transaction that has been completed with the whios info to prove it.
I guess unless you're selling a tangible item that must be mailed (providing you with an opportunity to ship to a confirmed address), you're out of luck if the buyer complains even if you have proof that the transaction was completed.
It's a DOMAIN NAME for goodness sake! It's literally impossible for it to be "not as described"!
The only "shipping" required is the transfer of the registration of the domain to the new owner!
Thanks a bunch PayPal. Not only will you lose the hundreds of $$$ per month in fees that I regularly pay you, but I now have a new hobby: Telling every customer and business associate that I have ever had and ever will have in the future (and trust me, it's quite a large number) what happened with your "seller protection plan". I know, I didn't "ship to a confirmed address". But let's be real here. This is a domain name, not a priceless heirloom that has to be shipped. Your "seller protection plan" is a joke, as is your company's means of doing business.
After this reversal is completed, I'll promptly close my PayPal account and move on. Oh, and the hundreds of emails that my company sends out each day will all have a new signature line. I'll leave it to you to take a wild guess as to the content. And of course all of my websites will have a "Beware Of PayPal" page with copies of your correspondence to me and vice versa as well as the whois information on the domain name.
The $500 isn't the issue here. I could eat that and go on with life. The issue is the lie: "PayPal will NEVER go into your bank account without your explicit permission". This time it was only $500. The next time it might be serious money. Well, there won't be a next time. And what's up with doing a reversal TWO DAYS after I respond to your "Case Inquiry"? And not even an EMAIL to let me know that you're doing it! I just happened to see the pending reversal when I logged into my account to check the status of some other items!
This IS NOT the way to gain trust with your users PayPal. Thanks for nothing. The regulatory gods will act before long. I'm sure of it...
posted on January 16, 2002 01:23:17 PM new
is 500 pending reversal just an entry in your paypal account or has it actually gone into your bank account and debit 500 dollars ?
did you check with your bank the money has been taken away from you??
how much is your paypal balance before and after the pending reversal??
have you talked to your customer why he is filing complaint against you?
this is interesting,who can you contact to get your domain back??
posted on January 16, 2002 01:31:00 PM new
stopwhining:
The "pending reversal" is just that. They have initiated a reversal to take the funds from the bank account. It's only pending until the transaction makes its way through the ACH process (usually 2-3 days).
I empty my PayPal account as soon as possible, often several times a day. But they'll just take it back form the bank account (hence the reversal).
I haven't heard a word from the buyer. It seems wuite simple. He now has the domain and he doesn't want to pay for it. So he filed a bogus complaint with PayPal. And unfortunately, it worked.
posted on January 16, 2002 01:32:50 PM new
There is no way that I know of to get the domain back. He is now registered as the owner and contact person on the domain. Only HE can transfer it to someone else. It would appear that I'm out of luck on all fronts.
posted on January 16, 2002 03:44:13 PM new
mrbusinessman,
Please post a link to your website for me. I would like to see how you outlined your anti-PayPal page. I plan on doing the same thing, however I am new to building web pages. I think the whole world should be aware of PayPal's antics. Thanks......
posted on January 16, 2002 04:08:40 PM new
I'm really worried now. My old Paypal account was attached to my ex-partners account. Are you saying Paypal has assumed the right to enter into his checking account? -joe-
posted on January 16, 2002 05:23:40 PM new
Hi mrbusinessman,
You are not understanding how the pending reversal process works. I did invite you to contact me directly. The pending reversal is placed against your PayPal account.
Bank account access (for chargeback liability recovery) applies only to users that opened their account after Oct.11,2001.
posted on January 16, 2002 08:54:46 PM new
Go to your bank like I did and put a stop on paypal. It may cost you $25.00 like it did me but it was well worth it. Also if you need to write your credit card co. and do the same.
posted on January 17, 2002 08:27:09 AM new
PayPalDamon:
You are not understanding how the pending reversal process works.
You are not understanding my posts. I have already said that I've went round and around with PayPal before and I have no desire to do it again. At this point PayPal is history except for the negative press that you'll be getting from me in multiple ways.
I have no desire to use the services of a company that allows a known thief to also continue to use the services, especially when the company is handling my money.
Quite frankly, PayPal's refusal to go after this guy is baffling. And in the end, you'll lose much more than $500 worth of customer trust and business because of it. I'll see to it.
I can stomach losing the money. Until I found out that your hands were tied when it comes to getting it back from me, I was resigned to the fact that it was gone forever. What I cannot stomach is the way your company chose to handle this case. A financial services company must retain the trust of its users. That trust is eroded when you fail to take action against a known fraudster. My new hobby is telling as many existing and potential PayPal customers as possible about this. And trust me, quite a large number will find out. As a matter of fact, over 40,000 already have through one of my newsletters. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. PayPal has screwed the wrong guy this time.
[ edited by mrbusinessman on Jan 17, 2002 08:28 AM ]
posted on January 17, 2002 10:12:11 AM new
I'm behind you all the way. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. There's just something about a company that allows and assists scam artists to defraud their members that just gets stuck in my throat.
