posted on September 14, 2001 09:24:29 AM new
An article in National Geographic several years ago
provided a penetrating picture of God's wings. After a
forest fire in Yellowstone National Park, forest
rangers began their trek up a mountain to assess the
inferno's damage.
One ranger found a bird literally petrified in ashes,
perched statuesquely on the ground at the base of a
tree. Somewhat sickened by the eerie sight, he knocked
over the bird with a stick. When he gently struck it,
three tiny chicks scurried from under their dead
mother's wings. The loving mother, keenly aware of
impending disaster, had carried her offspring to the
base of the tree and had gathered them under her
wings,
instinctively knowing that the toxic smoke would rise.
She could have flown to safety but had refused to
abandon her babies. Then the blaze had arrived and the
heat had scorched her small body, the mother had
remained steadfast. Because she had been willing to
die, those under the cover of her wings would live.
"He will cover you with his feathers, and under his
wings you will find refuge." (Psalm 91:4) Being loved
this much should make a difference in your life.
Remember the One who loves you, and then be different
because of it.
Joan
http://www.geocities.com/justjoansetc/
posted on September 14, 2001 09:46:10 AM new
That's a lovely thought, Joan.
I imagine there are a lot of prople who are questioning such faith after this horrific tragedy. So many people were under those wings
and there was nobody there with feathers.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:35:25 PM new
Thanks so much for that Joan! A real boost. If you have faith it will be tested. The Tuesday massacre and the events that are beginning to unfold may very well be the greatest test of all. Have to hold on!
posted on September 14, 2001 03:34:34 PM new
I'm sorry you feel so bitter hjw. You are denying yourself the greatest comforter of all. Don't forget this horror was committed by humans, and that many, many more lives were saved than taken that day.
posted on September 14, 2001 03:52:50 PM new
Angel wings is a great notion, but right now it is time to put our faith in the 82nd Airborne and US Air Force Fighter Wings and Strategic Air Command.
I refuse to curl up in a ball and depend on magical spirits to cover my a**.
If there are truely magical spirit wings, let them cover any truely innocent which might find themselves at ground zero when the US Armed Services unload.
posted on September 14, 2001 04:25:02 PM new
Simco
<quote>
"I'm sorry you feel so bitter hjw. You are denying yourself the greatest comforter of all. Don't forget this horror was committed by humans, and that many, many more lives were saved than taken that day."
<end quote>
"so bitter?" I don't understand why you believe that I am "so bitter."...no more than anyone else on earth that is human and conscious. It's not good to be "comforted" always. We are all concerned and unhappy about this horrible event.
How can you say that "many, many more lives were saved than taken that day." I don't understand that viewpoint.
posted on September 14, 2001 04:44:00 PM new
Psalm 91
1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
T
posted on September 14, 2001 04:52:01 PM new
jt- I guess YOUR god abandoned all those people killed Tuesday. Perhaps we should all contact their families and children and tell them that if they had only BELIEVED IN YOUR BRAND OF MYTHOLOGY THEY WOULD HAVE LIVED.
Your and too many others thinking is right on par with the terrorists that hijacked those planes.
Their god had his wings around the terrorists to wisk them to paradise as soon as the died. Our god had his wings around some but not others on Tuesday based on their beliefs.
posted on September 14, 2001 06:53:37 PM new
To the extent we allow others to determine our emotions, is the same extent of their power over us. Would you really give your power to the terrorists voluntarily, and not give God a chance at power over your emotions?
As a humanity this is the worst time to allow negative emotions to run helter-skelter, and determine our actions. Especially not when we have the choice of holding fast to a faith, even the size of a mustard seed, that there is a Higher Power in charge.
As large and horrible as these tragedies are they are incredibly small in comparison to what could have, and potentially still can happen. The whole city could have been hit with nuclear weapons. Many, many more people all across the US could have been killed that one day.
But let's don't blame a loving God for the actions of humans under the influence of evil. Our lives do not go on forever. We will all die sometime. So many more people could have been in those buildings, and usually were.
There are many miracles to rejoice in even as we are grieving. I've heard several stories already of why some people were not there that usually would be. It wasn't their time to die.
We have a lot to be thankful for in our country, and that is what we need to concentrate on now. We have had a huge, horrible wake up call.
posted on September 14, 2001 07:22:22 PM new
simco
I understand your reply now. I can tell that it's very sincerely stated and I appreciate your answer.
So, rather than thinking of 5,000 dead, you maintain a positive viewpoint by thinking that it could have been 10,000 and by that maintain a focus on the 5,000 living.
It's much like looking at a glass half full rather than half empty.
Wish I could do that. Thanks so much for your reply!
posted on September 14, 2001 07:32:39 PM new
Reamond,
He is God of all people whether they acknowledge Him or not.
I am tormented over all the people that died. I don't understand WHY they died I just know that there is one God in charge. I will just trust that He knows why and that He is much much greater than I.
The only way to begin to understand any of the "why" is to go to the word of God and try and see WHO God is as a living entity...not televangelist...but God the Alpha and the Omega.
The same scripture that you reject, others find comfort in. It expreses that the loving God who created us than sent salvation to all the earth is in control. Through Christ, He said, "I know your pain. I have been there- in trinity."
I assure you that God grieves EVERY life that has been or will be lost in suffering.
posted on September 14, 2001 07:44:47 PM new
I'm not dealing in emotions but brass facts.
These religious nuts are preying on the emotions of both us and our enemies. The use of this "higher power" malarky is what caused people to hijack planes and fly them into buildings.
Now it is being used by "our" side to prosletize for their point of view.
Perhaps it is time to get rid of the insane belief of gods and bibles and korans.
Perhaps man's real enemies are religion and the nut jobs that follow it.
Are our nut job western religions any better than theirs ? Doesn't appear so.
Lies and hate, using the weak minded either to take their money or their vote or to get them to kill.
Maybe if we prayed hard enough we could get all the gods to just have a cosmic death match with each other and leave us out of it.
jeeezzzzzz......
edited to add- who do I want protecting me ? My own wits and intellegence as well as the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines. If heaven is sooooo great why would a christian even worry about losing their life. Is life sweeter than heaven ? The Islamic god and heaven must be the true one since those guys are killing themselves to get into it.
And if your god is the alpha and omega, then he is the creator of the past, present, and future, he knows all that has happened, all that will happen. So why do you pray ? If prayers are to be answered then god must be able to change his mind and the future. If he changes his mind then he doesn't know the future or the future is set and prayer is meaningless.
If he created all then he also created evil. So you worship a two headed monster.
posted on September 14, 2001 07:51:29 PM new
Helen, this is not PollyAnna-ish power of positive thinking. This is a brutal facing of reality.
For each one of those victims, there is a whole family of living people that are trying to make sense of a senseless death. They need us. They need us to lean on, so we have to be strong for them.
There is no strength in sinking to the thinking of the terrorists, or taking on their anger and hatred.
What God asks of us is to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly. It is just to declare war on terrorism. It is merciful to take the time to get the right perpetrators. It is humble to trust those in human authority over us.
We attract to ourselves that which we give out. "No man is an island, entire of himself...."
posted on September 14, 2001 07:59:47 PM new
"There is no strength in sinking to the thinking of the terrorists, or taking on their anger and hatred."
Their anger and hatred was the teaching of their god. The same god that teachs us to kill homosexuals, the same one that asked us to kill our own children to prove our faith to him.
If you're truely a christian, you should just turn the other cheek. Let them blow up a few more buildings.
Hokey mythology, no better or worse than all the other myths man has used to control his fellow man.
The bible is not the word of god. It was written by men with an agenda.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:05:50 PM new
Gods Strength are your weakness and gods weakness is your strength.
God is wisdom , truth and life, you have the Body hands legs voice and ears to hear, God didn't cause this problem and he couldn't prevent it people have free will and these Terrorist made this Choice ..
choose wisdom, truth and life or choose something else , God is a lot like the USA you have the freedom to choose.
mind you that chooseing something else was what caused these terrorist to do what they did.
Doesn't matter what your belief God is God and god is Wisdom truth and life if you choose something else you get whats left.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:08:44 PM new
A verse from the Bible says "My thoughts are not your thoughts,My ways are not your ways".
Consider one thing,we spend our whole life questioning why God lets someone we love die or be brutally killed. But we will never understand that why until we have crossed over on the side.It will not be until then that we will truly understand Gods plan for our lives. Until that day comes,the only thing we have is the the faith we have placed in him.Don't let the enemy take that away from you. If you do,you have lost the fight.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:13:16 PM new
simco
First, you posted...
"I'm sorry you feel so bitter hjw. You are denying yourself the greatest comforter of all. Don't forget this horror was committed by humans, and that many, many more lives were saved than taken that day."
I then asked about the statement, "many more lives were saved than taken that day."
You responded that you were thinking about the lives saved rather than the lives lost. Now, you are back to "brutal reality." Frankly, I can't keep up with your changing emotions.
You state.."Sinking to the thinking of the terrorists"
I resent that. Nobody here is thinking on the level of a terrorist simply because we don't accept your kind of religion. Neither do we "take on their anger and hatred." as you stated. I don't know where you are getting these ideas.
Believe it or not, the Christian religion does not have a monopoly on
good people who "act justly, love mercy and walk humbly."
Just like you.
And you state "No man is an island, entire of himself...."
I'll add and emphasize that no religion is an island either.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:13:17 PM new
REAMOND, I respect your desicion to stick with the 'brass facts'. And since you have committed yourself to that end I would ask that when you have the time you research the ancient historical facts that will dispell any idea of Christianity as Mythology.
I understand your anger. You are lashing out at not only the terrorists, but are taking on their attitude of lashing out at others' who don't believe as they do. It's tough times right now. But we need you to be strong. Emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually.
Your spirit has darkness right now as is understandable from any sensitive person who has just witnessed insane horror. You can hang on to that darkness and let it eat you from the inside out, or you can rid yourself of the anger and hatred and let it go, thereby freeing your capacity for goodness.
No more than we can judge all Moslems as terrorists, we cannot judge all Christians by the TV evangelists. They are human beings, and the ones who deserve it have a special treatment in store for them.
Religions and religious traditions are of human origin. Try not to blame God for what humans do in the name of their religion, which can be very different from what is required of us by the Lord.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:16:10 PM new
MAH645 - if god has a plan for our lives then we have no free will and can not be accountable to anyone for our actions since we have no choice, we are mere puppets. How can we be held responsible for anything we do if it was god's plan ?
God and religion are a ruse foisted upon the weak minded by those smarter.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:17:19 PM new
jt--I am a born-again Christian and I have the utmost faith in my Lord. However, the 91st Psalm is a hard one to hang onto when bad things happen.
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. (Look at all those who love the Lord who have had evil happen to them!)
11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone (Dashed against a stone? How about crushed by the World Trade Center???)
During times of trouble, I find more comfort in the story of the crucifixion and Christ calling out "My God, My God, Why have You forsaken me?" This comforts me in that during a time of extreme pain, even God's Son felt abandoned. And then I read on to where He says "Into Your hands I commit my spirit," and know that even though he felt abandoned earlier, He later totally gave God everything. And--three days later look how things had changed!
posted on September 14, 2001 08:23:27 PM new
Hey {b]REAMON[/b], here is a link to show whyyour statement about "Hokey mythology, no better or worse than all the other myths man has used to control his fellow man. The bible is not the word of god. It was written by men with an agenda."
posted on September 14, 2001 08:27:15 PM new
simco- I graqduated magna cum laude with a degree in Philosophy. I have studied the bible and know more about its history than most men in the pulpit. Of course if they knew its history, an honest person wouldn't be in the pulpit claiming it is the word of some god.
The bible is a conglomeration the ancient religions and philosphies of Mithras, Diogenes, and Plato. Pieced together from and edited and re-written from these 3 sources, as well as other minor sources.
What is left of it was put together by the Council of Nicea by the edict of Constantine. Not for the glory of god, but as an attempt to hold together and control what was left of the Roman Empire with a common mythology.
The bible is the west's mythology.
Islamic beliefs and the Koran sprang from similar political necessities.
By the way, I knew these things and was an atheist long before this tragedy.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:36:25 PM new
Reamond, Just because God has a plan for your life doesn't mean you will follow it.Life is sort of like a dressing room where you prepare yourself to spend eternity in Heaven or Hell,its up to you what you decide to do.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:37:02 PM new
The books of Moses were written 500 years before the earliest Hindu Scriptures. Moses wrote Genesis 2,000 years before Muhammad penned the Koran. During that long history, no other book has been as loved or as hated as the Bible. No other book has been so consistently bought, studied, and quoted as this book. While millions of other titles come and go, the Bible is still the book by which all other books are measured. While often ignored by those who are uncomfortable with its teachings, it is still the central book of Western civilization.
Unbelievers often point to those who claim to believe in the Bible without being changed by it. But history is also marked by those who have been bettered by this book. The Ten Commandments have been a source of moral direction to countless numbers of people. The Psalms of David have offered comfort in times of trouble and loss. Jesus' Sermon on the Mount has given millions an antidote for stubborn pride and proud legalism. Paul's description of love in 1 Corinthians 13 has softened angry hearts. The changed lives of people like the apostle Paul, Augustine, Martin Luther, John Newton, Leo Tolstoy, and C. S. Lewis illustrate the difference the Bible can make. Even entire nations or tribes, like the Celts of Ireland, the wild Vikings of Norway, or the Auca Indians of Ecuador have been transformed by the Word of God and the unprecedented life and significance of Jesus Christ.
It's important to know what the Bible says about itself. If the authors of Scripture had not claimed to speak for God, it would be presumptuous for us to make that claim for them. We would also have a different kind of problem. We would have a collection of unsolved mysteries, embodied in historical and ethical literature. But we would not have a book that has inspired the building of countless churches and synagogues all over the world. A Bible that did not claim to speak in behalf of God would not have become foundational to the faith of hundreds of millions of Christians and Jews (2 Peter 1:16-21). But with much supporting evidence and argument, the Bible's authors did claim to be inspired by God. Because millions have staked their present and eternal well-being on those claims, the Bible cannot be a good book if its authors consistently lied about their source of information.
BTW, reamond, what does an athiest believe in? Just curious, you know.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:40:37 PM new
Helen, I do not espouse the Christian religion which is man made, but the spiritual view of Christianity based on the love of Christ as our example, Lord, and Savior.
My emotions haven't changed at all. The brutal reality is that possibly thousands of people died in one day. They are gone leaving many of thousands more personally grieving, and a world full of people grieving from a distance. That is brutal reality, no change.
Those alive, hurting people need us to be strong. To put our own lives aside and hold them up. That is brutal reality when we have to hurt with them and for them even if our lives weren't personally and directly affected.
You are right, nobody here is thinking on the same level as the terrorists. To feel anger and hatred at a time like this is normal, but to hang on to it and feed it, is counter-productive. The sooner we put that aside the better to use our capacity for the things that will be productive. And what better day than the one declared by our President to be a day of mourning and rembrance. Tomorrow is a new day with it's own problems and we'll deal with them much better without the anger and hatred.
I don't want anyone to follow me and my beliefs. Seek your own answers and follow the only worthy one.
