posted on September 14, 2001 08:40:51 PM new
MAH645- then your god is no different than uncle fred watching television. By the way, your concept is not christian. The christian god of the bible knows all and is all powerful. If it is "his" plan it must be followed. If you can make choices then god doesn't know the future. A severe tanget with the "word of god" the bible.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:44:55 PM new
I need to go to bed, so this has to be my last post tonight:
reamond you state, [i]"3 days later he was just as dead as the Romans left him.
Christ was an idea, a notion, a new more acceptable mythology and nothing more."[/i]. I despute that on these facts:
During the Jewish Feast of Passover, Jesus was swept away by an angry crowd into a Roman hall of justice. As He stood before Pilate, the governor of Judea, religious leaders accused Jesus of claiming to be the king of the Jews. The crowd demanded His death. Jesus was beaten, whipped, and sentenced to a public execution. On a hill outside of Jerusalem, He was crucified between two criminals. Brokenhearted friends and mocking enemies shared in His deathwatch. As the Sabbath neared, Roman soldiers were sent to finish the execution. To quicken death, they broke the legs of the two criminals. But when they came to Jesus they did not break His legs, because from experience they knew He was already dead. As a final precaution, however, they thrust a spear into His side. It would take more than resuscitation for Him to ever trouble them again.
On the morning after the Sabbath, some of Jesus' followers went to the grave to anoint His body. But when they arrived, they were surprised at what they found. The huge stone that had been rolled into place over the entrance to the tomb had been moved, and Jesus' body was gone. As word got out, two disciples rushed to the burial site. The tomb was empty except for Jesus' burial wrappings, which were lying neatly in place. In the meantime, some of the guards had gone into Jerusalem to tell the Jewish officials that they had fainted in the presence of a supernatural being that rolled the stone away. And when they woke up, the tomb was empty. The officials paid the guards a large sum of money to lie and say that the disciples stole the body while the soldiers slept. They assured the guards that if the report of the missing body got back to the governor they would intercede on their behalf.
About AD 55, the apostle Paul wrote that the resurrected Christ had been seen by Peter, the 12 apostles, more than 500 people (many of whom were still alive at the time of his writing), James, and himself (1 Corinthians 15:5-8). By making such a public statement, he gave critics a chance to check out his claims for themselves. In addition, the New Testament begins its history of the followers of Christ by saying that Jesus "presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by [the apostles] during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God" (Acts 1:3).
History is full of martyrs. Countless men and women have died for their beliefs. For that reason, it is not that significant to point out that the first disciples were willing to suffer and die for their faith. But it is significant that while many will die for what they believe to be the truth, few if any will die for what they know to be a lie. That psychological fact is important because the disciples of Christ did not die for deeply held beliefs about which they could have been honestly mistaken. They died for their claims to have seen Jesus alive and well after His resurrection. They died for their claim that Jesus Christ had not only died for their sins but that He had risen bodily from the dead to show that He was like no other spiritual leader who had ever lived.
The disciples were caught off guard. They expected their Messiah to restore the kingdom to Israel. Their minds were so fixed on the coming of a messianic political kingdom that they didn't anticipate the events essential to the salvation of their souls. They must have thought Christ was speaking in symbolic language when He kept saying over and over that it was necessary for Him to go to Jerusalem to die and be resurrected from the dead. Coming from one who spoke in parables, they missed the obvious until after it was all over. In the process, they also overlooked the prophet Isaiah's prediction of a suffering servant who would bear the sins of Israel, being led like a lamb to the slaughter, before God "prolong[ed] His days" (Isaiah 53:10).
Those are just a few reasons to believe in Him.
Good night and God bless all, going to bed now.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:51:24 PM new
REAMOND-You said "The same god that teachs us to kill homosexuals, the same one that asked us to kill our own children to prove our faith to him." Could you please tell me exactly what scriptures you are referring to that teach this?
If you're truely a christian, you should just turn the other cheek. Let them blow up a few more buildings. Why do you believe this? Doesn't God tell His People in the Old Testament to go to war?
posted on September 14, 2001 08:56:44 PM new
ddicffe- you seem to justify your belief about god and the bible by some sort of popularity contest. I could conjecture from your reasoning that all people that write best sellers are some sort of saints.
If it is seniority that is your justification, factual eveidence shows that the buddistic writtings pre-date the bible decisivly, and has been practiced far longer.
As far as it written by the inspired hand of god, where is the rest of it ? The parts that were destroyed under penalty of death by Constantine I. The bible you read is a fragment of the complete religious writtings of the christian and jewish sects.
The complete writtings were severly edited by the Council of Nicea in order to throw out anything they didn't believe in and anything that was politically unacceptable. So I suppose this was "devine" editing ?
The Declaration of Independence has changed more people than the bible, is it a holy document ? Perhaps we will be worshiping Jefferson 2000 years from now.
In the measure of history, Islamic and christian religions are relativly young. They will be replaced just as they replaced the old mythology.
posted on September 14, 2001 08:57:42 PM new
The book of Revelation sums up Gods plan for all of us.Whether one makes their decision to be with him when they die is up to them. But I'll bet you one thing,a few minutes after they declare you dead, you'll know if you made the right Chose or not. Heck of a time to find out.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:09:33 PM new
envy- surely you know that the nt negates the covenant of the ot. You should also know about the "test" of you know who, who was told by god to kill his own son to show his faith in god- but in case you haven't read your whole bible, which I have several times, I'll spoil the ending by telling you god stopped him before he put his son to the sword.
ddicffe- you have offered no facts. I have a book here that tells about a man traveling in a time machine, shall we now believe in time machines as fact ? I have a non-fiction book claiming martians and space ships here on earth complete with pictures, shall we claim it as fact? You do not yet know how to distinguish fact from opinion and belief, yet you are quick to proclaim the former.
You should be reading Sir Karl Popper instead of the bible. You'll learn more and be better for it.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:11:18 PM new
AW Moderator, I would appreciate your locking this message, thread
I put in a simple, as I felt heart rendering item during the time of all the grief going on in our land, and people have seen fit to make it a religious argument.
Please close this .
posted on September 14, 2001 09:12:23 PM new
I dont like to repeat anything,so i just second everything REAMOND is saying.
Good night and may the US armed forces bless the guilty.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:17:13 PM new
Religion is a wonderful thing for people that can not handle thinking or emotions.
Mythology transforms the human. That is why governments, and politicians, and smart, but unethical, people use it at every instance they can to control their fellow men.
I am constantly amazed at those who proclaim the word of god and the truth of the bible haven't read it, do not know its history, have no idea of the context by which it was promoted, nor grasp or understand the motivations of those who have controled it. Their embrace of the "book" and its religion is pure emotion, with no critical analysis.
I hope no one feels I am picking on christians. I can say the same things about the koran and Islam, the book of mormon (another claimed inspired work !!), and on and on.
posted on September 14, 2001 09:19:00 PM new
I have struggled with this all day, I have nobody to talk to about this that would understand me in any way. I doubt anyone here will either but I just have to try and put it into words.
I understand there are as many views of God as there are people who believe in God.
My personal beliefs have changed over the many years of my life.
I have gone full circle more than once.
I have viewed God as the great cosmic clock maker who put everything into motion and then stepped back to let it run it's course only occassionally reaching in to do a bit of tinkering here and there or make an adjustment or two, but basically leaving us on our own to make our own choices and to live with and learn from the consequences of those choices. This helped me to accept that sometimes bad things happen. I cringed when I would hear someone explain a horrible tragedy as "God's will".
Then I came to view God as the Heavenly Father (very much like my "earthly" father) who took care of me and nothing really bad could happen because my Heavenly Father would keep me under his wings "like a mother hen her chicks".
Then I arrived at the belief that through Jesus, I could actually have God in my life on a day to day basis and with that came a very wonderful sense of peace. No matter how seemingly bad things might appear, I felt a solution was on the way because I truly believe in the onmnipotence, omnipresemce and omniscience of God.
I feel awful that in the middle of this horrible tragedy I find myself focusing on my own petty problems, but I am forced to face a thought, no matter how hard I have tried to force it away, that if God did not keep all these people under his wings why should I expect him to keep me there? Who am I that I deserve it any more than anyone else? This is not about my faith being "tested". It's more about my being forced to deal with my obvious total misunderstanding of what God is really all about. Up until Tuesday, I truly believed I had it all figured out.
I need God to be more in my life than just words at the appropriate time or a comforting philosophy about how things work and why things are.
I find I really can't get it into words. I apologize for taking up the space.
