Borillar
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:11:25 PM new
I was just watching Crossfire on CNN and this thread topic came up. Seems that two significant things occured:
1) Padilla was secretly moved to a naval security base on Sunday. So secretly, in fact, that his lawyer wasn't even told. I think that this coincides with the release of this information to the public about this case. I guess that no public outcry will get THIS guy his rights!
2) That the source of these allegations is largely unreliable, the adminstration admits.
Funny, Padilla wsn't mentioned by the squeeler until U.S. officials asked him to verify the name.
I'm not saying that Padilla isn't guilty of being a soldier for Al-Queda, or that he didn't take training in bomb-making - I think that those are established facts. That Padilla was doing recconsiance here in America, looking for targets may also be true. If true, then he is a combatant, in my book. If not, and the government's case is largely wrong, then we ought to ship him of to Guantanomo Bay for warehousing. But how this case is handled will lead the way for the handling of all future detainees that the U.S. Government see fit to point the "Terrorist" finger at.
In that case, I'd rather err on the side of caution when it comes to a person's rights and allow this guy to retain his than to sweep them away through fear trounced up by the GOP's War Drums.
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REAMOND
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:22:30 PM new
As it stands now, it is Congress that defines US citizenship and disposition of aliens, and the executive branch that executes those laws. There is a nice little piece about this in the Federalist Papers.
The executive branch may be scruntinized over how it executes the laws by the Supreme Court.
But here is a "trick pony" in this- if the Bush administration does get a case to the Supreme Court over either the treatment of aliens or stripping of citizenship and must modify enforcement of the citizenship laws, will he have the political chips to have Congress change those laws ? To what degree will the American public support new and tougher laws ?
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gravid
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:25:43 PM new
Helenjw or anyone - could you supply some links to the story about white house personnel getting anthrax treatment earlier than commonly thought before? Thanks..
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REAMOND
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:33:41 PM new
Bor- There is a political price to pay when the executive branch make mistakes or intentionally misleads.
If their evidence against this guy was fabricated or non-existent, then it will be brought up at the next elections, even the Congressional elections.
Bush and Ashcroft put the ball in play on this guy. If they can't prove the charges , they'll look like incompetent idiots.
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Borillar
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:42:33 PM new
REAMOND, what they are doing now is minimizing his importance. In other words, they are backing off while trying to save face. What they claim to have an interest in in more names . . . names of accomplices, etc. Let's hope he doesn't read the RT and say the code names REAMOND or Borillar . . .
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krs
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:45:37 PM new
"they'll look like incompetent idiots". Mostly they already do. I'd sure like to know why Karen Hughes quit. She was the only damper on Karl Rove. Now he's running the whole show.
edited displexia
[ edited by krs on Jun 11, 2002 05:12 PM ]
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REAMOND
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posted on June 11, 2002 02:59:40 PM new
Well... if I am arrested and stripped of my citizenship, can I get all of my income taxes refunded ? I can stand a few months in solitary if I can take my library.
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nycyn
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posted on June 11, 2002 03:06:48 PM new
(Just waving--can't keep up with you guys right now. Carry on.
Poof!)
Wait, just one observation. I think we're really frightened. Fighting can make for good distraction.
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REAMOND
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posted on June 11, 2002 03:07:14 PM new
Bor- here is a link to another example of how evidence in a regular trial can be up ended for security reason. A judge viewed the evidence and allowed the govt's action to stand. I have a feeling that the same thing may be going on with the recent arrest.
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20020611_1661.html
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antiquary
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posted on June 11, 2002 03:32:49 PM new
It's all very simple really.
We are at war with terrorism.
Are there still terrorists in the world? Yes!
When the answer to that question is no, we'll end the state of emergency and return to the checks and balances.
I feel secure.
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saabsister
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posted on June 11, 2002 03:42:28 PM new
Gravid
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15269-2002Jun7.html
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 04:12:41 PM new
Thanks, saabsister 
I just saw that question.
"Let's hope he doesn't read the RT and say the code names REAMOND or Borillar . . ."
HaHaHa...Stusi has already called me a terrorist. LOL!
Helen
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stockticker
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posted on June 11, 2002 04:30:24 PM new
if I am arrested and stripped of my citizenship, can I get all of my income taxes refunded ?
Nope, sorry. I (in Canada) pay income tax to the IRS on my U.S. based income (tax on interest income is withheld at source). I also pay taxes on my GLOBAL income to the Canadian government. However, on my Canadian tax form I can claim a credit for any taxes paid to the IRS because there is a tax treaty between our two countries.
Irene
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 04:44:32 PM new
Good Grief! That sounds like Maryland.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on June 11, 2002 05:02:16 PM new
Thanks for the link.
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Borillar
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posted on June 11, 2002 05:22:26 PM new
Thank you for that new link, REAMOND. It goes to show that courts CAN find ways not to reveal sources of intelligence too early. My problem is that they stripped this guy of ALL rights! I think that some legislation needs to be done that clarifies this situation. What happens to the next group of protestors and they "dissappear" into the night? Wouldn't we be next?
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gravid
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posted on June 11, 2002 05:52:17 PM new
Only if you keep talking....(
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Linda_K
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:19:51 PM new
Listening to the debates on the different news programs and an attorney brought up the fact that this has happened before. People being held as "enemy combatants" was used in WW11 under FDR. It was challenged and the US Supreme court upheld it it.
So it will be interesting to see how, or if, things have changed since 1942 should this issue makes it way there again.
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nycyn
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:36:21 PM new
Oh Gravid we're all pixels on this bus. Calm down.
Sorry--kid stuff. gotta run.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:51:49 PM new
How can he be considered an "enemy combatant" in the United States when we are not officially at war?
Helen.
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mlecher
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:53:10 PM new
Listening to the debates on the different news programs and an attorney brought up the fact that this has happened before. People being held as "enemy combatants" was used in WW11 under FDR. It was challenged and the US Supreme court upheld it it.
So it will be interesting to see how, or if, things have changed since 1942 should this issue makes it way there again.
But that was during a DECLARED war. Though the it wasn't required it did exist at the time. It had to have had some bearing on the case. The one thing that attorney and commentator kept up is that the was a war on, though not declared legally by Congress. There is also an undeclared War on Drugs, but not one dealer or user has ever lost their constitutional rights. But that doesn't get you Oil. does it?
There are only 10 types of people in the world
Those who understand binary and those who don't
[ edited by mlecher on Jun 11, 2002 06:54 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:56:22 PM new
Congress has not declared war on al Qaeda, nor has the president requested such an explicit declaration.
Helen
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rawbunzel
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:56:53 PM new
Not to mention that we've been told the "war on terror" may not be over in our lifetime. So exactly when do we get our rights back?
Changed now to NOT so it made sense.
[ edited by rawbunzel on Jun 11, 2002 07:23 PM ]
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snowyegret
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posted on June 11, 2002 06:59:18 PM new
What rights?
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:06:20 PM new
Rights no longer exist.
Helen
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mlecher
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:06:48 PM new
It also came out today that they may never try Padilla, NEVER. Just hold him as a Prisoner of [a non-exsistent]War until the [non-exsistent] war is over. And then return him to his country of origin, the USA!
What would be the effect of spoofing someone email address, writing the webmaster of your favorite Muslim site. Be sure to use the words "bomb" and "nuclear". Sprinkle it with a few Praise Allah's. And to top it all off, add a "nukeler" so Dubya will understand
There are only 10 types of people in the world
Those who understand binary and those who don't
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nycyn
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:21:54 PM new
"How can he be considered an "enemy combatant" in the United States when we are not officially at war?"
hEL-LO! (oops) That's what I wanted to know!
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nycyn
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:24:44 PM new
>>Rights no longer exist.<<
Oh great Hel-len. Should I kill myself now or in the morning?!
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Helenjw
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:25:19 PM new
Surely the justice system will stop this unconstitutional embarrassment. But then, the Supreme Court is ultimately responsible for putting this administration into office. So who knows what will happen?
Helen
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rawbunzel
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posted on June 11, 2002 07:27:03 PM new
It's going to be interesting to actually meet you all when they round us up as rabblerousers. Be sure to give your board names so we'll know who you are.
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