posted on June 12, 2002 08:56:24 PM new
I like the "Democracy in the nation and in the home" idea. As much as I love the "up against the wall $%$^#@#$$$%$" I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to wear it out of the house much.
posted on June 12, 2002 09:36:33 PM new
Hi rawbunzel,
I don't know whether or not the Onion has done that particular situation with Ashcroft, but he is a member of a fundamental protestant denomination known as Assembly of God, a pentecostal, aka holy roller, religion whose members believe in and practice "speaking in tongues." His father was a minister and moved his family to be near the national headquarters of the religion.
I remember in high school a friend and I accepted an invitation to visit a revival meeting at an Assembly of God church. They do indeed jerk about, roll on the floor, and speak in tongues as they are seized with the holy spirit. As I understand it, being chosen is like experiencing a good possession. But that's all I know about the pentecostal. Neither my friend nor I were so honored that evening and I've never had any further education in their doctrines.
posted on June 12, 2002 09:48:27 PM new
Antiquary, I was never sure which ones were the Holy Rollers my mother used to speak of.Thanks.
If he does roll around speaking in tongues that is just one more reason to think he is completely unsuited for the job he is doing. He is WAY to far to the right to be objective.
posted on June 12, 2002 10:05:27 PM new
I would imagine that Ashcroft brings a whole new dimension to the discussion of visions in strategic planning. Never a dull moment with old John there.
Yes, in comparison, Ashcroft makes Pat Robertson look like a flaming liberal.
posted on June 12, 2002 10:43:53 PM new
It was not an Onion report. I haven't felt a need to so much as look at the Onion for many months. Apparently it's true, and I remember reading about him and that before his confirmation as AG as well. He's really very far gone with the Assembly of God stuff and because of that I was amazed that he got the job.
posted on June 13, 2002 06:04:59 AM new
Well, they had to back down since the foreign press coverage revealed that the entire free world was appalled by our casual disregard for human rights. But it did help divert national attention from scrutiny of the events leading to 9/11. Ashcroft's religious training has probably also prepared him well to accept the humiliation of the censure since it serves the greater good of the Party.
posted on June 13, 2002 06:34:24 AM new
Article on AP today headline:
Padilla's Bid to Purchase Radioactive Material Led to His Surveillance and Arrest.
Padilla, accused of plotting to detonate a radioactive "dirty" bomb in the United States, traveled to a central Asian country in April looking to buy radioactive materials, Pakistani intelligence and government officials said Thursday.
________
He wasn't just your normal traveling US citizen. He was using false documents and allases as he traveled the world. And I wonder where did an un-employeed person get the funds to be traveling back and forth between different countries so many times?
Groundhog Day
First it was the "thousands" of civilian deaths in Afghanistan. Then it was the "concentration camp" at Guantanamo Bay. Then the Israeli "massacre" at Jenin. Ever since the war started, America-haters, mostly on the far left, have been searching desperately for a peg on which to hang their opposition to our defense of civilization.
Every time, the pattern is the same: The America-haters begin by leveling some hysterical charge or another, supported by fraudulent or invented information.
posted on June 13, 2002 07:30:06 AM new THE White House has slapped down the US justice chief in a gathering row over the suspect in the "dirty bomb" case.
Two days after the sensational exposure of a plot to unleash a radiation bomb on a US city, questions about the case threatened a backlash against Washington’s "war on terror."
[b]White House officials have objected bitterly to ominous warnings from John Ashcroft, the attorney general, that suspect Jose Padilla was poised to inflict
"mass death and injury", it was reported yesterday[/b].
But the case of Jose Padilla, the US citizen and former Chicago gang member dubbed an al-Qaeda "operative" in a plot to unleash a "dirty bomb", brought Mr Ashcroft’s position into a harsh spotlight.
Revealing Padilla’s arrest with dramatic fanfare this week, Mr Ashcroft said he was at the centre of "an unfolding terrorist plot" to cause "mass death and injury" in the US.
It was claimed the "dirty bomb" would use conventional explosives wrapped in radioactive materials to blast radiation over a wide area.
Officials were dispatched to characterise Padilla’s crime as closer to "loose talk". While there are claims of meetings with senior al-Qaeda figures, the strongest evidence so far may be that he searched for bomb-making tips on the internet.
In a blistering editorial yesterday, the New York Times newspaper said the only case Padilla had to answer appeared to be Mr Bush’s claim he was a "bad guy".
Senior Republicans have joined their voices to concern that Mr Ashcroft, who oversees the FBI, is threatening to trample on civil liberties with new surveillance measures.
Padilla’s own lawyer went to court yesterday to denounce his detention in a military prison "without time limit or the right to counsel".
Democrats have begun to break the unified front behind Mr Bush since the destruction of the World Trade Centre.
Congress is poised to consider Mr Bush’s plans for his new Homeland Security Department, with nearly 200,000 employees and a £20 billion annual budget. The White House is trying to prevent political horse-trading pulling its proposals to pieces.
But senior Democrats suggested the Bush administration had tried to deflect attention from intelligence failures before 11 September by revealing the "dirty bomb" case, a month after Padilla’s arrest in May.
The Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle, speculated there was a "rush to bring it before the news media" against mounting criticism of US intelligence agencies.
posted on June 13, 2002 07:36:41 AM new
LindaK "Shares":
"Padilla, accused of plotting to detonate a radioactive "dirty" bomb in the United States, traveled to a central Asian country in April looking to buy radioactive materials, Pakistani intelligence and government officials said Thursday."
Drsquirrel should be delighted to find that she now relies upon reports from Pakistani Intelligence and government officials.
If the AliBaba press said it certainly must be worthy of note.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:23:15 AM new
Oh....I think the Associated Press is a pretty reliable source for news.
I also thing many use information from other countries to verify their points. Nations all across the world "SHARE" information with us, and we with them.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:24:49 AM new
It's amusing when the "lawyers" here scream what's legal and what's not. When a court ruling comes along that says the opposite, the only rational is the "grand conspiracy". Last time I tried to form a decent conspiracy, it fell apart at three members, yet many here conjure conspiracies of hundreds of thousands (millions?) at the drop of a hat.
Oh, and the term "his new Homeland Security Department" is incorrect. The concept was developed by the US Commission on National Security started by William Perry, Clinton's defense secretary. It was chaired by Gary Hart and after 3 years recommended the formation of a National Homeland Security Agency with powers extending over the various security divisions. The report was delivered to the President in January 2001.
posted on June 13, 2002 08:39:36 AM new
DeSquirrel,
That's right. It's the very program that the darling boy shelved after his inauguration with the flippant 'we'll look at that later' series of remarks. The 'new' bush reorganization is essentially the Hart-Rudmann plan reborn.
In light of all, isn't it a pity that wonder boy didn't rely on the wisdom and expertize of the Clinton administration sooner than now?
"Associated Press is a pretty reliable source for news"
Not with that OP piece. That comes direct from a whacked out Rush Limbaugh protege' or didn't you read your own dropp.......err, sharing.
[ edited by krs on Jun 13, 2002 08:42 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2002 10:33:37 AM newPadilla, accused of plotting to detonate a radioactive "dirty" bomb in the United States, traveled to a central Asian country in April looking to buy radioactive materials, Pakistani intelligence and government officials said Thursday.
Which Central Asian Country? They do have names. Or would the one they happen to name come back with "No he didn't!" Sounds like a ploy to falsely bolster their illegal actions. And why go to a foreign country, when all the News organization are reporting that there are so many places in America you can pick up the nuclear material needed. Dumps, Ilegal dump sites, poorly guarded sites(which they named and gave locations).
Where DO those terrorists get their information?????
There are only 10 types of people in the world
Those who understand binary and those who don't
posted on June 13, 2002 10:41:26 AM new
Linda_K- Don't even try to reason with krs about news sources. As someone can almost always find support for even the most extreme beliefs, krs chooses to read/cite the most obscure foreign and domestic news sources. The irony is that for a veteran he seems to read/cite many that border on outright anti-American ideas. As your cited Taranto piece stated, and as DeSquirrel alluded to, people love to use hyperbole when expressing fear as to the LARGE numbers of Americans who will now be arrested and held without rights. That is a big crock of alarmist sh*t.
So now you are accusing a Decorated Vietnam Veteran of using sources that border on anti-American ideas. You spineless piece of cowardly crap! You have nearly everyone here on ignore because you don't have the guts to read criticism of your asinine remarks yet you surely don't hesitate to insult everyone else here.
posted on June 13, 2002 12:37:50 PM new
Sheesh. I go to the doctor and come home to this.
Helen, thanks, but no need to get yourself in trouble on my account, and nevermind that pest, he couldn't be referring to anything that I said because by his own vow he has me ignored.
posted on June 13, 2002 02:14:20 PM new
Stusi, krs stood and continues to stand in a different way. Nothing anti American there. You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on June 13, 2002 02:35:13 PM new
Stusi - I especially liked where he said, "So let's see if we have this straight. Daschle is saying that for political reasons the administration was both too slow and too quick to release the information, but he's confident the administration wouldn't politicize the issue.
krs....pay attention. The OP was from The Wall Street Journal OP, not from AP.
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 13, 2002 02:39 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2002 03:09:11 PM new
It's still unverified yellow journalism.
There was an article last week that said that the terrorist have a plan to eliminate the entire southeast portion of the US from florida right out to the Mississippi river by driving a trainload of radioactive camel dung up from Mexico and dynamiting it in front of a Jewizsh temple in St. Louis, MO with a shaped charge aimed southeast. It was on the UP and UP news.
posted on June 13, 2002 04:43:45 PM new
Snowy- As I have krs and some others on "ignore" I will respond to you. I sincerely do have the utmost respect for our men and women of the armed forces. But criticizing a veteran is often met with the same accusations as when one criticizes the government. I have known veterans who now are bordering on anti-American positions as their thoughts and attitudes have changed since serving. People change and sometimes no longer have integrity. My criticism of the highly esteemed krs has a lot more to do with the latter than the former. When I see a person post verbatim threads without any references, as he has done on numerous occasions, or when I and others ask him a direct question and get no response I feel there is a lack of integrity there. I really do not want to discuss him any more.
posted on June 13, 2002 05:30:43 PM new
>>I have known veterans who now are bordering on anti-American positions as their thoughts and attitudes have changed since serving. People change and sometimes no longer have integrity.<<
Stusi--The more you open your mouth (so to speak) the more your already small head caves in.
Never mind the above. Let's just take the fact that you are responding to comments completely out of context if you are not reading the text because you have the writer on "ignore."
Why don't you volunteer for service then come back to talk to us?
What I have to look at is why I even bother to read or respond to you.
edited to dumb down
[ edited by nycyn on Jun 13, 2002 05:34 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2002 08:29:12 PM new
''people love to use hyperbole when expressing fear as to the LARGE numbers of Americans who will now be arrested and held without rights''
Why not Stusi they do it in Israel every day.
Does nt it really aggravate you when someone says somethig you disagree with that's the truth ?
posted on June 13, 2002 08:40:11 PM new
How does this ignore thing work? I used to know, but when I clicked on "Stusi" there was no "ignore member" feature.
posted on June 13, 2002 09:40:07 PM newYellow Journalism defined, for those of you who have heard the term used before, but are unaware what it means. Interesting history!
posted on June 13, 2002 09:56:03 PM new"The information was available earlier. Why was it not announced?" asked Tom Daschle, the Democratic majority leader in the Senate, who added that there "may have been a rush to bring it before the news media" after recent criticism of the CIA and FBI.
-Excerpt for KRS's link in this thread, posted on June 12, 2002 10:43:53 PM-
I keep saying it: "they" are watching us, or at least have an aid that watches what we write here. Above, Tom Daschle seems to echo our sentiments and conclusions. Have I been correct in my assuption?
If so, I have a few thoughts for them:
+ DEMOCRATS - stop worrying about the polls. Every time you react to polls and pull back, it makes you look like weaklings or being Paid Off. You are Pissing Off the Majority of Americans when you do that!
We, the People, have no other allies in our government, than you to stop the Bush Regime. We are counting on you to **FIGHT!** If you have to get down on the floor of Congress and use your fists to fight for us, we'll back you up all the way! Stand Firm, stand Together! STOP Democrats from crossing over part lines to vote with the opposition! Your J-O-B now is to be a Thorn in Bush's Side! If you stand UP to this Big Bully, Bush, and make him smart from the fight, Americans everywhere will cheer you! Stand with the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights and you will even sway Conservatives to your cause! Without your bloody-fisted fighting of the Bush Regime, there MAY NOT BE any Presidential Elections! You have nothing to loose, but your jobs! We all have nothing to loose but our rights and our lives!
+ REPUBLICANS - go back to where you came from! Remember your Roots. Remember when you could be PROUD to be called a Republican, because you stood for America and Democracy and for the American Way! TAKE BACK YOUR PARTY from these reactionary splinter-groups that are in control! It used to be that America slept well because the Republicans were on guard - now Americans can't sleep for Fear of the Republicans! TAKE BACK YOUR HONOR! REBEL!
Americans are all watching you, no matter what the polls are telling you. Remember that!
posted on June 14, 2002 04:54:51 AM new
aurora- People who think they are always right really annoy those of us who are!
Borillar- that definition of Yellow Journalism sounds quite a bit like what krs and several others do here, doesn't it?
