Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 08:04:03 AM new
Listening to the news this morning the report said something that really surprised me.
Southwest Airlines is considering charging the obese for two seats when they fly.
Also stated was United Airlines all ready does.
What are your thoughts?
Do you think this is weight discrimination? Especially because of the fact that 60% of American's are overweight.
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 19, 2002 08:30:16 AM new
Yeah it probably is.
I wonder how they are going to define 'overweight' to get the 2 seat ticket price? AND are they going to actually get 2 seats? (they better!) Then what about pregnant women, after all they are carrying a baby...
God things have sure changed. I remember flying back up here from TX, with 2 little ones, one still a baby, and they charged me for only one ticket, if I held the baby the whole time. Toddler I had to pay for a seat.
I'm sure you'll hear more about this, once they do it.
[email protected]
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gravid
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posted on June 19, 2002 08:44:58 AM new
I am badly overweight and struggling with it.
I have always had a problem but since arthritis has limited my ability to exercise
I have experienced a sudden gain that is bothering me.
Even before this current gain I had a hard time fitting in an airline seat just from my size.
I am so wide across the shoulders I intrude 3 or 4 inches each side into the other seat. I have been in planes where the seat in front was so close I could not get my feet on the floor because my knees hit first.
I can still get my butt in the seat because I just don't happen to have a big caboose but now I have a paunch and I doubt if I could get a dinner tray folded down in front of me.
It is pure greed on the part of the airlines.
I can fit in a Honda Civic and drive it comfortably using the standard seat belts.
Yet I can't fit in a plane. Does that tell you something?
I would be happy to pay by the pound if everyone was treated the same.
The airline personnel are NOT friendly. I have taken off with no belt because they could not find an extender.
Too many people have an attitude that you are just weak willed if you are heavy. For some that is true but for many it is not.
I had enough trouble when I was just big. Even when I was thinner I wore a 22/36 shirt to keep from ripping the arms out. And believe me my shoulders are not fat. But now that I am big AND fat it is horrible. I would not even try to fly now. I have heard too many stories about getting on your plane and then being forced to buy an extra seat when you make a connection. I heard of one woman stranded 1,000 miles from home because she did not have cash or card on her to buy an extra seat for her connecting flight on Delta.
If they wanted they could make one row of normal size seats like you would have in an automobile for the people who are over the 95th percentile and how often would the plane ever be full so they lost the fee for two or three seats lost to that row?
[ edited by gravid on Jun 19, 2002 08:49 AM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on June 19, 2002 09:01:29 AM new
There is some misunderstanding about your information, Linda.
I just talked to United Airlines and their explanation is that as long as you occupy one seat that you will only be charged for one seat.
If you require 2 seats, in my opinion it is reasonable to expect to pay for 2 seats.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on June 19, 2002 09:11:25 AM new
How big is the seat?
If a normal active person can not fit in the size seat they have installed then why should they be able charge more? I don't think we are talking about 500 pound people who can't get out of bed or get out the door. These people drove to the airport and stood in line and sat without any problem in the waiting area seats. If they fit and function everywhere else then the airline seat is further from "normal" than the person is.
As I mentioned I fit in a Honda Civic and have no trouble driving a long road trip. But not an airline seat. Is Honda out of touch with how how big normal people can be expected to be? It will be interesting if it goes to court what percentile of the population they attempted to accomadate. If they even considered that.
[ edited by gravid on Jun 19, 2002 09:15 AM ]
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twinsoft
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posted on June 19, 2002 09:24:54 AM new
Huh. Gravid, that's funny because I never pictured you as the fat old geezer type. I figured you more for James Dean. Oh well, people are never what they seem to be. Live long and prosper, whatever.
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gravid
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posted on June 19, 2002 09:35:26 AM new
I turned 55 yesterday. I feel semi-geezerly.
Oh to be 25 and still know what I do now....
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:06:54 AM new
It is pure greed on the part of the airlines. I agree....a way to force obese fliers to fly first class or pay for those two seats. We have two friends, one male and one female who are quite large. The have trouble with the belts and trays too. But have always flown on SouthWest....[as do we] that may change.
Yet I can't fit in a plane. Does that tell you something? Yes, and I think we all know some of the airlines have been making the seating areas smaller and smaller.
I'm an average size woman and I'm uncomfortable sitting for the 5 1/2 hour flight to CA in the allowed space.
The program had a woman who represented overweight women and she asked the question you posed, Helen and NearTheSea.
Was asking what are they going to use as the factor that decides whether or not one has to buy two tickets....a tape measure...your weight...etc. And how will that be done when tickets are ordered in another way other than in person. She argued that the airline was being paid to get you from point A to point B....not by weight. And, of course, she felt this is discrimination.
I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this.
NearTheSea....I remember those days too. And then you only paid 1/2 fair if the child was over 2 or 3 years old. Not sure how that works now.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:09:38 AM new
Oh and...
HAPPY BIRTHDAY [yesterday] Gravid....you're not getting older...just better.
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:13:25 AM new
Yes, how will they do that, will you have to be a zize 6-9 to get a regular fare? or will they go to a size 12-14? incredible
Oh yeah, those were the days! Thats right, it was something like 'under 10 years?' being half fare. My kids were 1 1/2 years, and 3 at the time. They let the 1 1/2 year old free, if I held her... that was tough!  Also a very long time ago! (thank God )
[email protected]
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:15:34 AM new
OH! Happy Late Birthday Gravid!
Linda's right, your not old!
My husband just turned 56, he said, its his 'right' now to be an old grouch
[email protected]
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Helenjw
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:15:46 AM new
Linda
I wasn't asking a question. My remark was to clear up the erroneous information at the beginning of this thread.
The answer from United Airlines is that people who occupy one seat will be charged for one seat. If you need more than one seat, you will be charged for 2 seats.
It's that simple.
Helen
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stockticker
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:26:24 AM new
Rather than paying for two seats, it probably will be cheaper to go first class which has larger seats.
Irene
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:29:27 AM new
Helen - What can I say? I heard it two different times on the news this morning.
Maybe United Airlines will call the news agencies once they hear what's being said...I don't know. That's what was said.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:39:12 AM new
Southwest Will Charge Large Fliers Extra Fare
This is not a very popular DC newspaper but it's the only article that I could find.
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:45:09 AM new
Linda, I found this at Fox, but can't find the story
Starting on June 26, Southwest Airlines will start charging 'large passengers' for two seats if the ticket agents think they can't comfortably fit into one
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,28619,00.html
[email protected]
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:49:30 AM new
Thanks for posting a link to the story, Helen.
I agree with this statement: Remember that you have a right to accessible transportation. Even obese people have rights...just like we've made accommodations for the handicap without charging them extra for the benefit...or ease of accessibility...IMO.
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gravid
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posted on June 19, 2002 10:52:55 AM new
I am guessing that the fellow next to me that has my whole arm and shoulder sticking into his space so he has to lean on the wall probably thinks I don't fit in one seat.
Thanks for the well wishes. Some commuter airlines don't really have a first class anymore - I can fly couch to Tampa from Detroit for about $187.00 under $400 round trip. First class - not even direct - costs $1,387 to $1,701. Three to four times as much. I can drive my Honda down and back for about $300 with two overnight stays - but then I don't need to rent a car down there.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 11:03:42 AM new
Thanks NearTheSea -That was the news agencies I heard it on first.
I think it's a bad policy to begin with, but especially when it's going to be left up to different individuals to make the call on who's paying for two seats and who's not.
Will be interesting to watch and see if the first time they force the issue that person files a discrimination lawsuit.
My sister had a leg amputation and her prothesis won't fit in the tiny leg room that is given....the airlines always have either put her in the front (right behind first class) where there is more leg room...or near the rear of the plane where the big exit door is located. And she didn't have to pay for the benefit. They could do the same thing with the severely overweight.
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Helenjw
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posted on June 19, 2002 11:08:41 AM new
The airlines will be overwhelmed with suits - either by misidentifing someone as a terrorist or by discriminating against people who are overweight.
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DeSquirrel
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posted on June 19, 2002 11:28:46 AM new
It's also totally stupid. Years ago planes were cramped and tiny.
What do they do now? They have huge planes chock full of seats and fly them 2/3 empty. Plane interiors are modular. The seats slide in on roller sections. Why can't they have 1 or 2 sections designed for very big and/or handicapped people? And then if you need it, you use those seats w/o having to pay for 1st class. When nobody is ticketed that requires those seats anyone could use them to stretch out.
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alwaysbroke
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posted on June 19, 2002 11:45:42 AM new
There was a story on the news several months ago about a person who forced the airlines to allow him (or her) to take his pet pig. He claimed it was for medical reasons; something about the pig had a calming effect on his nerves. They put him in first class with the pig sitting in the isle.
I find it hard to believe they would be more willing to accomodate an animal than a human. I like the idea of having a row of larger seats. Do they force those with wheel chairs to pay extra to take their chairs aboard? Maybe they do, I don't really know.
lurking is not an option
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snowyegret
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posted on June 19, 2002 12:04:58 PM new
I want my half price Skinny fare!
I'm 5'2" and 98 lbs and I don't think there's enough room.
You have the right to an informed opinion
-Harlan Ellison
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 01:07:31 PM new
snowyegret - LOL...no we're just going to place you near someone who's 'over extended'.  98#s?? Don't let a good wind blow you away.
That's another thing. Our two overweight friends each have a 'skinny' mate. So would they have to pay for a third seat when in the two they bought they both would fit comfortably? Southwest stated that if the overweight person had to put the seat divider in it's upright position in order to fit they had to purchase the second ticket. But with the arm divider in an upright position they both fit comfortable on two seats.
alwaysbroke - I'd believe that. They do allow people's seeing eye dogs on board. And once the handicapped person is seated, they fold the wheelchair up and store it.
Some argued about not wanting to have an overweight person taking up some of there space because they deserved to be comfortable. Someone else asked how comfortable they'd be if a squirming child was on the lap of a parent screaming the whole way....they saw it as being the same thing. Also mentioned was what if one felt uncomfortable sitting next to a person with major disabilities...or a person with no limbs...they might need to work on being more accepting of those different from ourselves.
An update. Southwest said if a person is too heavy they can buy that extra seat. 30% overweight seems to be the gauge they're using. But if one bought their ticket online, as we and our friends do, and then when we arrived at the airport what would they do if there weren't any extra seats? They said if you bought two seats and the plane wasn't full...then you could get a refund on the extra ticket.
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NearTheSea
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posted on June 19, 2002 01:13:05 PM new
I know about that 'screaming kid' LOL, it was mine, 20 years ago I had her in my lap, and the man sitting next to me, finally, asked if it was ok to give her all his candy (the stuff the airlines give you)...usually I wouldn't give her too much candy, she was super active as it was, I took the candy, and she did shut up..... for awhile. I really felt for the guy.
I wonder what they are gauging 30% overweight on?
I can see your friends position, if one is heavy and the other not, why can't they just pay for their own 2 seats?
[email protected]
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Linda_K
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posted on June 19, 2002 01:36:25 PM new
NearTheSea - LOL...  It's hard for little ones to be still and quiet for a long flight. And sometimes I think the difference in air pressure affects their ears more than we used to realize.
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nycyn
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posted on June 19, 2002 02:59:00 PM new
[ edited by nycyn on Jun 20, 2002 06:38 PM ]
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DeSquirrel
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posted on June 19, 2002 03:10:53 PM new
Proclaimed "Allah akbar"!" and lit the fuse in your shoe????
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 19, 2002 03:37:33 PM new
You got out a pair of nail clippers and threatened to rip her face off if she didn't take that back?
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oklahomastampman
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posted on June 19, 2002 03:46:16 PM new
CNN.com has a story about Southwest Airlines starting to enforce their "plus-size" passenger policy.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TRAVEL/NEWS/06/19/southwest.passengers/index.html
The short of it is you only pay for two seats if the flight is completely full, and the second seat would be charged at the 14-day discount price. If the flight isn't completely full, no charge what-so-ever.
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