posted on September 14, 2002 07:51:38 AM new
Most of the people in this country who are raising hell about Arabs are a complex mix of ancestors. But as you outlined above, it's not visible.
There are several stories in the June 3, 2002 issue of "The Nation" based on the problems that Middle Eastern people are having in this country because of their appearance.
They want America to know that they are as American as anyone else. Unfortunately, a majority are trying to lie low. Others are doing their best to reach out to the community.
posted on September 14, 2002 07:49:59 AM new
Without civil rights we may as well be in Iraq. With terrorism we may as well be in Iraq. The fact that there are bigots is a "simultaneous truth" to the necessity of some profiling after 9/11. It is not mutually exclusive. Those bleeding hearts who confuse the two are just idealists who probably never saw the drug dens of the ghetto or witnessed the deaths of the WTC in person. The next time an description is issued in your area for a specific mass rapist or murderer, and you think you have spotted him you will of course say nothing. Or will you report him if he is white? The hypocrisy is exasperating canvid!
posted on September 14, 2002 08:11:02 AM new
Stusi are you calling me a hypocrite?
There is also a difference between racism and criminal profiling.
There are other people besided Arab's that look like...Arabs... Certain types of Jews also look Arabic and many people from that area.
In the FL situation both parties may have been goofy.
If you know you fit a profile you have to lie low and be smart or you risk trouble. It's part of the situation.
In WW2 not all Asians were Japanese, but most were scrutinized at times. And not all Japanese were spies either.
So yes, most Arabs in the US are here because they don't want to be a part of what was in their countries. They don't deserve to be treated in certain fashions, but they have to be aware that because they may profile just like the bad guys they have to be a bit more careful.
Also, Terrorism has been a part of almost every region of the globe except for North America. It is new to have it here on our doorstep.
Europe and most regions try to deal with it in their own way. We in North America will have to adjust too, because you simply can't stop every attack and if issues are dealt with via guns and bombs you will see more of them.
posted on September 14, 2002 08:48:40 AM new
"Hypocrite"? That's just a love pat coming from stusi.
If you haven't been called an anti-american terrorist and placed on "ignore" you haven't arrived.
posted on September 14, 2002 09:06:10 AM new
When I watched with horror, as we all did, the unleashing of the 9-11 attacks, I was shocked, crying, and extremely angry. I wanted to nuke the bastards who did this to us. I wanted to give Bush the right to go make them glow in the dark!
And this year, I felt the same things when I watched the programs on TLC. The difference was that I now know a few more things than I did then:
a) if Tom Daschele had not been bribed out of his mind with airline money, he never would have led the charge to destroy legislation that would have made the changes in airline safety that were suggested after the attack. Not once, but three times. If he had been thinking about what is best for Americans, rather than special interests, the terrorists would NEVER have gotten away with it!
b) if Bush & Co. had not been in Afghanistan the previous spring to play "Let's Make A Deal" with the Taliban, Al-Queda, and Osama bin-laden concerning the running of the Kazakhstan Oil and Gas Pipeline through their territory, and the subsequent falling out between them, and Bush's announcement to the Afghan King that he was planning on attacking Afghanistan in October, I doubt very much that Al-Queda, the Taliban, and Osama bin-laden would have made such a pre-emptive attack on us.
After reviewing these thoughts in my mind, my anger has nowhere to go. And then I realized that Americans are being Victimized once again: those among us of middle-eastern descent and Muslims. Yes, they may have schools in the USA that teach hate (Christians do as well), they may even be sleeper cells, but to be honest, they are ordinary citizens or green cards who are every bit as unhappy, sad, and outraged as you and I are at what has happened. And if they are to become second-class citizens in this country - guilt by skin-color/language/religion, then as a American Patriot, I will defend them as best that I can at every opportunity. I REFUSE to sit back ten years from now and feel ashamed for the attitudes of HATRED and BIGOTRY and RACISM sweeping this nation! In a Democratic society, even one so wounded as ours is, it is simply NOT OK to target people based upon the actions of others, upon their heritage.
So, if you want to join the crowd, be a Bigot, persecute the innocent among us, make them wear armbands to identify themselves, round them up and put them all into concentration camps for the duration of this war - which is Forever, by definition - I WILL NOT BE AMONG YOU!
sp.
[ edited by Borillar on Sep 15, 2002 02:40 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2002 09:25:51 AM new
An article in today's Washington Post details how some people fared far worse than the men in Calhoun's restaurant when they were racially profiled.
posted on September 14, 2002 09:32:54 AM new
I had previously read that story, saabsister. But I see a big difference in what happened to those poor people and what happened in GA.
Those in that article did absolutely nothing to 'invoke' a concern and were targeted [it appears] only because of their race. Not actions that led a concerned citizen to make a report of something said that very much concerned her.
posted on September 14, 2002 10:30:29 AM new"His motive for the crime -- less than a month after the terrorist attacks -- wasn't robbery, but retribution. Stroman said he wanted "to retaliate on local Arab Americans, or whatever you want to call them."
In Mississippi, not far from Georgia, they are called "f u r i n e r s" because the concerned citizens there can't pronounce "foreigners".
Instead of Negroes they say the "N" word for the same reason.
And you wonder why I question the report or interpretation of what was allegedly said by some woman in a Georgia waffle restaruant?
Many foreign students have simply packed up and returned home.
posted on September 14, 2002 10:56:47 AM newIn Mississippi, not far from Georgia, they are called "f u r i n e r s" because the concerned citizens there can't pronounce "foreigners".
So..do I understand you correctly Helen? It's okay for you to lump/group a whole state or two with your own prejudices [about their abilities], but other's who do so are bigots?
posted on September 14, 2002 11:02:51 AM new
Bol and Helen say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is a bigot. That makes them the ultimate bigots.
posted on September 14, 2002 11:04:59 AM new
Linda_K
Prejudice infers a preconceived judgement or opinion without grounds for that belief. It's an irrational attitude.
My information about word pronunciation is a fact.
posted on September 14, 2002 11:12:34 AM new
Valleygirl - Yes, one of the things that Stu said that I agree with is "The hypocrisy is exasperating".
Helen - Your own prejudices are showing, is what I'm saying. Because you insult two whole states intelligence, that's okay. But it's not okay for other's to share their own thoughts/opinions without being called bigots.
posted on September 14, 2002 11:21:45 AM new
Linda_K
I have not used the word "bigot" . In fact, I have never used the word bigot since I started posting here a couple of years ago.
Again, Linda_K I do not have a prejudice about the intelligence of all people in two states. I do, however have first hand knowledge of some people in the south. After all, they voted for Bush. LOL! I realize, of course that there are many people there more intelligent than I am.
The point that I was trying to make is that we should wait to hear from the medical students before making a judgement about what really happened. Jumping to conclusions based on first news reports is not wise - as we have seen in this case.
posted on September 14, 2002 11:36:23 AM newI do, however have first hand knowledge of some people in the south. But...there's the problem I have....your above posts didn't say some of the people from those states. You painted the people of those two states as all speaking that way because they don't know how to properly pronounce their words.
And then you edit to add: And you wonder why I question the report or interpretation of what was allegedly said by some woman in a Georgia waffle restaruant?
The way I took your statement [above] is that you wouldn't believe this women because of the state she lives in. Sounded to me like you were saying "If someone in another state had said it...someone who wasn't from the south...I might believe it...but since she's from GA...I don't, I KNOW how they are. When you really don't have a clue as to the type of person this women is...nor how she feels in her heart or what her prejudices may or may not be. Not everyone living in the south share the same prejudices.
posted on September 14, 2002 12:01:19 PM new
Linda, neither did I say ALL of the people.
Of course I don't have a clue about this woman and neither do you. That is exactly why we should not jump to conclusions about the circumstances of this case. Yesterday, for example, I read seven different versions of what was said in that restaurant.
posted on September 14, 2002 12:07:51 PM new
"You are calling the students "criminals" Have they been charged with a crime?"
No they let them go. But the "hoax" whether perpetrated as a joke or as salve to the stinging pain of years of outrage is a crime that you or I would be locked up for now.
posted on September 14, 2002 12:14:44 PM newDo you think that we should assume that they are all terrorists? In a little waffle restaruant in the South that's probably what happened. I'll bet when they entered that little restaurant just to have a waffle that they were eyed up and down before they opened their mouth to say anything. Probably in a defiant mode, because of this unfair surveilance, they made the inappropriate remarks?
Sharing your views of what "probably happened" in a southern restaurant. You had the whole story all worked out. Were you there? Why would you presume to know that they were eyed up and down [etc] you weren't there. We were discussing this as the story broke. But you side with the people who were reported because some woman from the south reported her concerns.
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 14, 2002 12:19 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2002 12:19:50 PM new
DeSquirrel
Since we haven't experienced "the stinging pain of years of outrage" (your quote) and we did not experience the surveilance that they probably received when they entered that restaurant, we would have had no reason to perpetrate the alleged "hoax" or make the alleged "inappropriate remark" and therefore, we would not be locked up now.
Helen
ed to add name
[ edited by Helenjw on Sep 14, 2002 12:20 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2002 12:32:15 PM new
Well, I'm originally from the south and I have never used the word Foreigner or "furreneer." I have also never used the "N" word. I have heard both used much more frequently here in the north including the word A-Rab.
Helen, your first statement was profiling of a people and it set my teeth on edge. Why, because white people from the south are lumped together as rednecks and barefoot. I don't know how many comments and jokes I have suffered through here in the north about my southernness. Profiled all of the way and they know me.
There is as much if not more predjudice here than I ever saw in the south.
posted on September 14, 2002 12:39:06 PM new
Helen
You don't get it. It makes no difference to me the "justification" for the crime. I don't care. I don't care if the checkout girl wiped her hand after she took their money. I don't care if their mommies were mean to them. It doesn't matter.
posted on September 14, 2002 01:29:44 PM new
Something "overheard" is not a crime. The statements were not said to anybody else. Also, why is it only the waitress overheard the statements? Didn't the people she was serving overhear them also??? I think one said, "Do we have enough to bring it down?" (Personally, I don't know if they had enough rope to lower the piano all the ground). The answer was "If we don't, I have connections" (Ahhhh, he knows a rope dealer)
You see DeSquirrel, You just don't get it. In these forums I have read things, even by you, that taken out of context and not in the spirit they were intended, would put more than a few people, including yourself, away for a long time. Of course, that is only if you ruled the world. (Thank God for the LIBERAL thinking of our forefathers.!!!!
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
posted on September 14, 2002 07:59:11 PM new
"Asked if she thought the men were playing a joke on her, Stone said it crossed her mind.
"They were just kind of jovial about it," she said in an interview with Fox News. "My son said, 'Oh Momma, they're just messing with you.' Then I thought about it, and I said, 'Well, you know, they shouldn't be messing around like that. That's a cruel thing to celebrate September the 11th, and to think that that was something to be happy about."
posted on September 14, 2002 08:02:30 PM new
If the woman was lying she is a bigoted troublemaker. If she was telling the truth, then they lied and they are at best troublemakers and at worst students with ulterior motives. The bottom line is that a degree of profiling is necessary as much of the terrorism perpetrated over the past 30 years has been by Muslim males.
posted on September 15, 2002 06:18:19 AM new
In the end, authorities said there was no threat, the cars were cleared, Interstate 75 reopened and the men were released. The three men climbed in their vehicles around 6 p.m. and drove away, 17 hours after they were pulled over.
At the time of their release, authorities called the incident a prank by the men,but officials were backing off that theory a few hours later.
"I think it's premature at this point in time to call it a prank or a hoax," said Carlos Alvarez, the director of the Miami-Dade Police Department.
These guys made a big mistake. Their mistake was in thinking that they could stop and enjoy a breakfast in a Georgia waffle joint just because they are Americans. It's the same mistake that Muhammed Ali made, thinking that he could get served dinner in a roadside restaurant in Louisiana in 1960 just because he'd just gotten home from winning a gold medal in the Rome Olympics for the United States boxing team.
Even I know to grab my food from the quickstop gas stations whenever I'm driving through a redneck cracker area of the country.
