posted on September 15, 2002 07:49:14 AM new
These guys were apparently denied admittance to the Miami medical school, as officials are saying that they have been overwhelmed by negative e-mails and fear for the safety of the men.
Canvid- calling you a hypocrite seems to be a sentiment shared by many on these boards as your denied actions of self-promotion have caused others to doubt your sincerity. And no I will not engage you in any more discussions here. Stick to debating Meg. That did happen, didn't it?
posted on September 15, 2002 10:15:25 AM new
I think the first mistake was toying with the waitress or nurse or whoever Eunice is. They were not just sitting and eating quietly were they? Their BIGGEST mistake was running a toll booth at midnight, going through Drug Alley, I still believe.
I used to get away with a lot, because I am a bit of a lead foot. Police usually gave me a warning for speeding, until I came to the state where I am now. I would have been stopped too this time. And so would any of you that time of night.
Of course the cops would check their license plates because they run through without paying, wouldn't you?
If the waitress/nurse hadn't told, and the cops hadn't stopped and the young men were up to more than taunting (if that was what they did) what would the press have done? They would have boiled those people in oil and fried them up for what we laughily call news.
Is it possible the kids set up running through the toll booth for a reason? Am I to far off here? I haven't heard much news about it.
If I am going to school in Mexico or India, and that country just had the same problems, you better believe I wouldn't be "fooling" with anyone, running tolls or speeding. Would you?
I only saw 2 short ABC segments, heard even shorter blurbs on NPR and read a Washington Post article, and never heard any quotes but one from one guy's Mom, so I may be wrong.
It does sound to me like these guys were being smart a$$es though.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 15, 2002 10:19 AM ] edit: to change ? mark.
[ edited by aposter on Sep 15, 2002 10:27 AM ]
posted on September 15, 2002 12:04:40 PM new
On the one hand, what the three did was foolish especially as the anniversary of 9/11 was upon us.
On the other hand, the waitress should have listened to her son. Really, what terrorist is going to sit in a public place and loudly discuss his or her plans of mayhem against the US?!? In English?!?
As to why the guys did what they did...when a person is constantly suspected or accused of things when they haven't done anything wrong at all, the temptation to give one's accusers what they're expecting can be overwhelming.
posted on September 15, 2002 03:00:26 PM new
" As to why the guys did what they did...when a person is constantly suspected or accused of things when they haven't done anything wrong at all, the temptation to give one's accusers what they're expecting can be overwhelming."
And then accept the inevitable consequences without whinning it's somebody else's fault.
posted on September 15, 2002 03:44:22 PM new
krs,
I don't know about the Lousiana incident but Ali was denied a celebratory dinner in Louisville, Ky., too, right after he won the Olympic medal in Rome and a bunch of white guys tried to set it up. It was a disgrace!!
Most of the people black and white had followed his boxing carreer through Golden Gloves which was about the only thing on tv back then.
posted on September 15, 2002 04:23:34 PM new
Calamity
"Helen, your first statement was profiling of a people and it set my teeth on edge. Why, because white people from the south are lumped together as rednecks and barefoot. I don't know how many comments and jokes I have suffered through here in the north about my southernness. Profiled all of the way and they know me."
There is as much if not more predjudice here than I ever saw in the south.
I was not here yesterday to answer your comment above. I'm sorry if my comment offended you and "set your teeth on edge". But that's the way it is...I've also moved from south to north so I understand.
posted on September 15, 2002 05:04:04 PM newDeSquirrel: if the intrepid waitress had used her brain, there would have been no "consequences" in the first place.
posted on September 15, 2002 05:56:54 PM new
Hi Calamity,
Yeah, that dinner thing made the papers and at least earned some public outrage. The other happened late at night at some roadside place and was only included in a biography of Ali. The former was the more sensational and even led to Ali throwing his gold medal into a river in either disgust or in pain, but the latter is the more pertinent here, or at least I thought it was.
Yep, we're pretty much moved in. There's still stuff back down there but we haven't been able to bring ourselves to go get it. LOL! We TALK about making the trip, and with my new truck and Chris' older one we could get completely clear of the place in one trip, but we just never do it. Both of us love it here big time, and we've been busy with it. There's been a lot of flower work, a lot of rework, and a lot of exploring the area. It's all good - a lot because Chris and I have found that we actually get along with each other when together 24/7. Before this she went to work every day but part of all this changing was finagling an early retirement for her, and what do you know, she's really a pretty neat lady!
posted on September 15, 2002 06:05:00 PM new
Helen,
No problem. As you probably have experienced, too. I just get sick of people up here assuming that I hold the same racist beliefs as they do and asking me why I'm wearing shoes. etc. You know how it goes.
Talk later. Gotta go Ebay.
posted on September 15, 2002 08:40:54 PM new
Yeah, krs, I know what you mean. I think he probably felt disgust,pain and dismay after what he had just done. Imagine, your own hometown.
What biography is that? He's one of my heroes.
Glad to hear that you are "most" of the way moved in and everything is going well.
Well, this isn't exactly about the medical students. Just will be glad when the real facts appear. I'm getting tired of the news media jumping the gun on these things.
posted on September 15, 2002 11:16:37 PM new
I was thinking of the David Remnick bio, but I think I picked up the incident that I spoke of from one of the movie bios. The Remnick bio has a similar happening at a luncheonette in Louisville when (then) Cassius Clay went in to order a glass of juice only to be refused service first by the waitress and then by the proprietor even though both were told by one of the waiters that he was the olympic champion. The proprietor reportedly said "I don't give a damn who he is, Get him out of here!"
It may not be EXACTLY about the medical students but the old Jim Crow attitudes which are described by the Ali incident(s) are, if it is accepted that bigotry can and sometimes does extend to include one and all who may be different in the view of the bigot.
posted on September 16, 2002 05:56:28 AM new
I haven't read the newspapers this morning, but on radio (NPR) Jessie Jackson is reported to have spoken to Michigan State students this weekend.
He said democracy didn't start in the 1700s, it started in the 1960s. He said before that the white males gave themselves the right to vote, but didn't allow their wives to do so.
I believe there are still a lot of us who believe we are not there yet. We can vote, but we can't even golf everywhere we might like.
Blacks still have problems everywhere, including my small hometown in the mid west.
The N word is still used regularly. And I mean regularly!
posted on September 16, 2002 10:01:23 AM new
Thanks, krs, I'm going to have to fill in for another town worker all day long all next week , Yuck. I'll order it at the library. I totally agree with your assessment about the Jim Crow attitude. It's still hanging it's ugly head.
aposter,
Jesse actually said that white men wouldn't let their wives vote before the 60's? All I can tell you is that my mother, grandmother's and great grandmother's are probably rolling over in their graves. It grips me to say this but he is correct in some cases but he shouldn't make such a sweeping statement including ALL.
posted on September 16, 2002 11:42:54 AM new
Hi Calamity,
I am sorry, I am back at work again so just posted in a hurry. It wasn't a very long blurb, and although they usually repeat the news I didn't hear it a second time.
He made the comment about white male founding fathers and their wives, but when he mentioned the 60s, he was talking about
civil rights for ALL people. At least I gathered that was what he meant.
It sounded right to hear him say it. I wish more people in the limelight would question how the U.S. came about, what is actual history and what is mostly fiction because it tells a good story. And looks good in the history books.
bunnicula, I guess that may depend on where you are from. I don't know. I know I don't like hearing it when I visit my hometown. Some of my extended family are the worse.
If I used that word where we live now, in front of black friends, my child's roommate or my son-in-law's fraternity brothers I could expect a well desired black eye (even two!). They are very nice, very educated people no different than any of you. They are not desiring of a word with such ugly memories attached to it. They wouldn't be deserving of it if they only had a 3rd grade education and were jerks either. JMHO.
posted on September 17, 2002 02:12:00 AM newThey were not just sitting and eating quietly were they?
We don't we know what they were doing. All we have are the statements of one lady. The son that she says was with her has not said anything. Neither has anyone else in the restaurant, including the waitress that served them. It is hard to believe that in a busy restaurant only one person heard these comments. According to one report she was not even seated next to them. The people closest to them heard nothing.
Their BIGGEST mistake was running a toll booth at midnight, going through Drug Alley, I still believe.
The did not run the toll both. Hence the reason they were not charged with doing so.
[i]I only saw 2 short ABC segments, heard even shorter blurbs on NPR and read a Washington Post article, and never heard any quotes but one from one guy's Mom, so I may be wrong.
It does sound to me like these guys were being smart a$$es though.[/i]
posted on September 17, 2002 04:30:54 AM new
The three guys and the woman's lawyer were on Larry King last night. The woman's lawyer said, direct quote - "she did take it serious."
No more need for speculation, the conclusion is clear - Georgia is full of dumbasses.
I have an street map base in a notebook computer but I have to get the topo myself because I have a list of all the federal mine claims to import so I can use it in the field to look for places to pan for gold and sapphires.
posted on September 18, 2002 07:16:21 AM new
Watched the Phil Donahue program last night. The three muslim men and the nurse were there with their lawyers [of course]. Neither side will speak directly to one another.
When Donahue asked if she would still report what she believe's she over heard, she said yes. They said she mis-understood their conversation. She said she was willing to take a lie detector test and they said they weren't willing to do so.
The lawyer representing the muslims said they had heard reports that they might be filing a lawsuit against the nurse, he said that wasn't true, they weren't going to do so.
posted on September 18, 2002 08:00:34 AM new
I was thinking about a polygraph test, knowing that she would agree and they would not. Hummmmmmm!!!!!!!!!
donny -your comment only shows that there is at least one dumbass in your state.
posted on September 18, 2002 12:19:18 PM new
Helen- It would be easy for me to say I would. But the bigger picture is that this became a national issue and if I was telling the truth it would help my cause to see less profiling. If I was not telling the truth I would refuse as it would seriously hurt that cause. These guys are obviously lying otherwise they would have nothing to hide or lose.
posted on September 18, 2002 01:25:14 PM new
When I look in the mirror and see a dumbass looking back at me, I recognize it. These bozos don't. Anyone who says "she took it serious" should never have gotten out of high school, let alone college or law school. And that's the lawyer? These people are a bunch of dumb hicks.
posted on September 18, 2002 02:06:40 PM new
donny- if you should happen to hear some bearded guys talking a combination of English and a middle eastern language about blowing up a building I guess you would not report it because you would never take it seriously. Maybe you should look in the mirror to see who the dumbass is. You may be guilty of being politically incorrect or you may save some lives. I would rather err on the side of caution as I believe most Americans would.
posted on September 18, 2002 02:22:33 PM new
Stusi, this woman has said that she was surprised to hear they spoke unaccented American. "American" being her term. We would only be surprised at an accent if it didn't gibe with the judgement we had already made of someone before they had even spoken a word. Any claim that she makes that she didn't judge them on their looks alone is completely discounted by that. She had judged them as soon as she saw them.
Did she stop there? No!
"EUNICE STONE, WFLZ RADIO INTERVIEW: "They said they had attended a party in Chicago the night before and that they needed to quit stopping because they were five hours late.
And then I just naturally, my curiosity, I just kept listening." "
Those are her words, after the fact. Yes, like night follows day, "naturally" this would make her curious and compel her to listen in to their conversation.
"And something else was said. They were kind of huddled together there over the booth, talking. And then one guy said, do you think that will bring it down?
And I looked at my son, and we were just looking at each other.
And he said, well, if that don't bring it down, I have contacts, I'll get enough to bring it down.
And to me, that meant they were planning to blow up something."
posted on September 18, 2002 02:25:47 PM new
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 2002
GHEITH GETS IT RIGHT: Ayman Gheith expressed it well on Monday’s night’s Larry King Live. Gheith was one of three Muslim medical students stopped in Florida last Friday morning. Here’s what he told King about the experience:
GHEITH: Well, the thing that hurts me the most, after we were let go, OK, after everything was said and done…what hurt me the most was that the argument was whether they said it as a hoax or whether they said it meaningfully. Where nobody considered, even, that we didn’t even say it. I mean, it wasn’t—throughout the media, throughout—everybody. It was a given thing that we had already said it.
Exactly. What actually happened at that Shoney’s in Georgia? We don’t know, and you don’t know either, although the evidence now suggests that a misunderstanding most likely occurred. But Ayman Gheith hit the nail on the head in his description of the press corps’ performance. Almost uniformly, the cable press corps simply assumed that Gheith and his colleagues had behaved inappropriately. Plainly, the pundits didn’t know what had actually occurred. So they told you the story they liked
......................
Terrorists would not discuss their plans in a waffle house in Georgia. In fact, they wouldn't eat in a Georgia waffle house.
posted on September 18, 2002 02:47:12 PM newAlmost uniformly, the cable press corps simply assumed that Gheith and his colleagues had behaved inappropriately. Not the case. They [the press] were told that by the lead investigator on the scene. He also stated they were un-cooperative when first pulled over and even as they were being released.
The press didn't get it wrong. I had the TV on and watched myself and heard with my own ears the man in charge of the scene, right before they released the three. He was the one who stated, to the press there, "It appears to be a hoax and not terrorist related." HE was the one who suggested to the media they may have been playing a game with this nurse. The media reported it as they were being kept updated.
And on Donahue last night, the nurse stated she was sitting at a booth where the two booths were only separated by a short wooden and lattice work divider. Just as if she were sitting right next to them. They weren't at another table a ways away. When she made this statement neither the three men nor their attorney disagreed that was the case.
Running the tole booth - One of their cars did..the first car. That's what helped the police find them. The reason no charges were filed, is that their second car paid the tole for both cars.
And as others have said, we probably won't ever know the whole truth. But if any person thinks they are hearing a threat against our country, I support their courage in reporting it to the authorities....and letting them clear up the accusation.
The attorney for the three did say the reason they weren't going to take the lie-detector test was because they weren't sure if future charges might be filed against them.
posted on September 18, 2002 02:59:42 PM new
I live in Northern Florida so I feel I have a little experience with folks like Eunice. They take their pre-conceived notions, mix it with a heap of suspicion, a few supposed utterances, and make a mountain out of a molehill. The exact second I saw the first report of this on CNN, and there was mention made of an overheard conversation at a diner in Georgia, I knew it was bullsh**.
I work on a college campus. Last December we had a building evacuated after a middle-eastern looking student left behind his backpack at a coffee kiosk. It was an accident, but this didn't stop a few folks from screeching, bringing in law enforcement and a haz-mat team. If I remember correctly, they actually blew up the backpack just to be safe. This, during finals. Idiots.
wayward consonant
[ edited by Julesy on Sep 18, 2002 03:02 PM ]
posted on September 18, 2002 03:01:16 PM new
Helen- I heard today that information taken from the computer of one of those arrested in Buffalo, NY said that there were atypical targets mentioned. The news item was not specific as the authorities may not want to release the targets. This wouldn't bode well for the rural areas of the country like Calhoun, Georgia. If someone wanted to blow up something in that area they just might eat at a Shoney's. Or if they were on their way through the south cross country they would have to eat somewhere.
donny- Forget this woman! Answer the question in general terms!
