posted on October 15, 2002 12:41:50 PM newI abhor censorship... The public library should have their computers censor this material. I have no problem with it at all, but there are some people who want no censorship of any kind.
You abhor censorship, but believe that libraries should censor?!?
And you know, this is a slippery slope. OK, you censor pornographic material "because kids might get their hands on it." But wait--just what is "pornographic" and what isn't? Maybe we should ban anything showing naked bodies. Of course, no one would be able to view works by Michaelangelo, Rubins, Giotto or the vast majority of "masters." Or Greek or Roman statues or vases. But so what? Children will have been "protected." Hey--many right-wing Christians think fairytales are "satanic" & we really don't want kids to be exposed to evil, do we? Better add that to the list of things to be censored. Some believe that kids shouldn't be exposed to any sort of sex education--so all those books on menstruation and puberty had better be offlimits. BTW, there is way too much violence--just look at the Sniper terrorizing folks back east--books on guns & military history had better be censored, because what if kids get their hands on them & turn into killers?
The list of things that folks would censor "to protect children" goes on & on. I find that phrase disgusting, actually. Want to protrect your children? Go right ahead--but censoring adults is not the way to go about it.
edited for UBB
Life is hard. And then you die
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 15, 2002 12:44 PM ]
posted on October 15, 2002 12:50:07 PM new
Although I will tell you how we protect children from pornographers and how we have enough common sense to distinguish a roman vase from "daddy does his daughter" online website. We have laws. We have laws on our books that protect minors from adult content. Under your viewpoint, there should be now laws because someone may misunderstand and call somthing that in not pornagraphic, pornography. That is a cheap shot that many liberals adhere to, use pornography as the bottom line of our freedom of speech. Well I'm all grown up now I have children of my own, I vote and I pay taxes. The hippy dippy logic does not hold water anymore.
posted on October 15, 2002 01:01:20 PM newwe have enough common sense ... We have laws...
That slippery slope I mentioned shoves "common sense" out the window once folks start down it. Because there is a very vocal minority that can & do push & shove to get *their* narrow view of what is "bad" followed by all. Those Greek & Roman statues--why do you think fig leaves are plunked on them so often, 'cause the sculptors didn't put 'em there. Life is hard. And then you die
posted on October 15, 2002 02:47:30 PM new
As long as there have been men and women there have been sexual activity on many levels throughout history. I am quite aware of Rome fallac Fountains, Orgy wall mosaics, etc. etc. Human nature never changes. However, technology changes, and information changes. The degree and amount of pornagraphic material available and how easily accessed is incredible. I think the point is rather obvious here and a historical overview is not very useful when it comes to the information age. Content is a formidable foe in distinguishing appropriate media boundaries for minors. Ivory tower intellectual strolls down the primrose paths of a gentlemens debate is hardly going to cut the mustard anymore with the river of trash the internet is spewing at our children everday.
posted on October 15, 2002 06:07:32 PM newI think the point is rather obvious here and a historical overview is not very useful when it comes to the information age. Content is a formidable foe in distinguishing appropriate media boundaries for minors.
-------pornography is pornography whether it be looked at on the computer, photos, books, pamphlets, or hidden copies of Dad's "Hustler" or "Playboy" magazines.
Ivory tower intellectual strolls down the primrose paths of a gentlemens debate is hardly going to cut the mustard anymore with the river of trash the internet is spewing at our children everday.
------that "river" is pretty much a myth. Oh, the pornography is there alright. But the number of kids accessing it has been greatly exaggerated. It is today's witchhunt in the name of "protecting the children." In the 80s the witchhunt was in full cry over the "certain knowledge" that every preschool/daycare harbored at least one & probably several child molesters who preyed on the kids as soon as the parents' car pulled away from the curb in the morning. Not to say that there weren't or aren't *some* molesters in daycare but certainly not in the numbers put forth by th witchhunters. Innocent people were crucified by that witchhunt, which was based on an erroneous supposition.
Guess what? In the 5-6 years our library has had computers & Internet for the kids, the number of times a child has accessed porn on them is...zero. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Why? 'Cause the kiddies aren't looking for it. 90% of them use the Net to look at sites on the WWF, Pokemon and Dragonball Z. The other 10% use it to research homework topics. In 5-6 yeas I have only had to tell a kid to get off a site ONCE--and that didn't involve porn...he was looking at a site featuring police photos of a dead celebrity who'd suicided. Yep, there sure is a big epidemic of kids being exposed to porn on library computers alright.
posted on October 15, 2002 07:41:06 PM new
To discredit people who try to protect children from the ills of society as "witch-hunters" is somewhat callous I would say on your part. Pornographers spam email, supply pop-ads and use popular childrens games as in their key word searches. One does not have to go to pornograhy it can come to you. I think there is a thread on this board now about a Yahoo group that gave up trying to meet because they were spammed to death with porno ads.
------that "river" is pretty much a myth. Oh, the pornography is there alright. But the number of kids accessing it has been greatly exaggerated. It is today's witchhunt in the name of "protecting the children."
Perhaps you should check out the thread on Yahoo and Porn. It is quite obvious the river is not a myth, it is a reality.
Whether a child is using the internet in a public library for his homework or to play a game, if your stats are true, then I am to assume you think there should be no controls on content for a public computer in a library? Pornography should be accessible? Is this your position? because your position sounds as though your okay with pornography being freely accessible and you chose to discredit those who care about children as witch hunters. But then again, from a person who believes that life is hard and then you die, what could one expect?
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=158984
[ edited by artdoggy on Oct 15, 2002 07:45 PM ]
[ edited by artdoggy on Oct 15, 2002 07:46 PM ]
[ edited by artdoggy on Oct 15, 2002 07:47 PM ]
posted on October 15, 2002 08:31:25 PM newTo discredit people who try to protect children from the ills of society as "witch-hunters" is somewhat callous I would say on your part.
Not callous--truthful. The zeal to "protect children" has reached a fever pitch in this country. In fact that has become the golden key for just about everything.
Pornographers spam email, supply pop-ads and use popular childrens games as in their key word searches. One does not have to go to pornograhy it can come to you. I think there is a thread on this board now about a Yahoo group that gave up trying to meet because they were spammed to death with porno ads.
If so, I can't find it. And my library uses Yahoo as the home page for the Net--although there are a ton of pop-ups, we've yet to get a pornographic one. Sounds a bit like people who claim Harry Potter is Satanic--of course, they've never read it themselves & just take the word of others. And we all know that if enough people say something, it *must* be so, right? Sort of like the folks who lead the yearly craze about the dangers of Halloween candy--despite the fact that no child has ever been killed or seriously injured in this manner. But, hey, it's "for the children" right, so we hafta be careful!!!
Perhaps you should check out the thread on Yahoo and Porn. It is quite obvious the river is not a myth, it is a reality.
A search of Auctionwatch doesn't bring it up...
Whether a child is using the internet in a public library for his homework or to play a game, if your stats are true, then I am to assume you think there should be no controls on content for a public computer in a library?
Of course there should be some control. It's called "parents." You remember those people...the ones that gave birth to the children? Who supposedly raise them? Who make the decisions regarding what their kids see, read & do? Public PCs or home PC, it is the *parents* who should be overseeing their kids.
Pornography should be accessible? Is this your position? because your position sounds as though your okay with pornography being freely accessible and you chose to discredit those who care about children as witch hunters.
While I myself my do not like to view pornography, others do. They should have access to it. On the Net, on video, in magazines. The videos & magazines were around when I was a kid--it was my mother's job to make sure I didn't see it.
But then again, from a person who believes that life is hard and then you die, what could one expect?
Cheap shot, but to be expected. You know, life is hard. As you move through it you find that things are rarely sugar-coated or swathed in cotton wool. You learn to face it with courage and deal with it as best you can. If you are fortunate enough to be allowed to grow up using your mind & judgement by parents who have faith in the values they instill in you, you won't find reality impossible to deal with as so many kids do today. And at the end, you die. And death is a natural part of life--nothing to be afraid of or to shy away from mentioning. But these days, to acknowledge that is not PC.
edited for UBB
Life is hard. And then you die
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 15, 2002 08:32 PM ]
[ edited by bunnicula on Oct 15, 2002 08:35 PM ]
posted on October 15, 2002 09:11:26 PM new
If you believe that children should have access to pornography then you are severely misguided is the area of parental responsibility. As a taxpayer and a user of the public library the LIBRARY also has a LEGAL responsibilty to follow the law and not expose minors to pornagraphic material. I posted the link for you to read, you have obviously chosen not to view it. So here it is again.
<a href= http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=158984>
Notice the porn comes from primarily Russia. The Russian mafia are exploiting women and children every day in hell hole brothels. This is a national issue but I suppose you are just going to disregard it and call the plight another witch hunt?
Are you going to call this article a witch hunt also? Maybe you should try reading it. Pornography affects peoples lives in the most debasing and demoralizing way. But that really doesn't bother you does it? Your right to your misguided view of the freedom of speech no matter what the consequence is what you see as liberty. What a pity.
posted on October 15, 2002 10:02:15 PM newIf you believe that children should have access to pornography
-------Nice bait & switch. Try responding to what I actually said.
then you are severely misguided is the area of parental responsibility.
--------You mean that parents shouldn't be in control of their children?
As a taxpayer and a user of the public library the LIBRARY also has a LEGAL responsibilty to follow the law and not expose minors to pornagraphic material.
--------ROFLMAO. You make it sound as if libraries have their Net-access PCs tuned to porn sites and encourage kids to view. Another scare tactic commonly used.
[i]I posted the link for you to read, you have obviously chosen not to view it. So here it is again.
<a href= http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=28&thread=158984>[/i]
Actually, you didn't. You referred to it. An Auctionwatch search using the term "pornography" failed to bring it up. My mistake--should also have tried "porn."
Notice the porn comes from primarily Russia. The Russian mafia are exploiting women and children every day in hell hole brothels. This is a national issue but I suppose you are just going to disregard it and call the plight another witch hunt?
Are you going to call this article a witch hunt also? Maybe you should try reading it.
-------Well, I would do so, but the article isn't available at that site *to* read. I will reiterate, though, I have never seen a pornographic pop-up on Yahoo. From Russia, China or here in the US. BTW, a search for information on pornography on Yahoo did bring up a related pop-up: some company says they'll be happy to search my PC to see if there is any porn on it. In fact this is something you might want to try: it is put out by "Contentwatch" & will let you know when or if *your* kid has accessed porn using your home computer. I actually tried it & was amazed to find that the ezboards, Art Today (clip art source for businesses, and Auctionwatch are considered "pornographic." And, yes, I still say that the current frenzy on the matter is a witchhunt.
[i] <a href=http://www.helpsavekids.org/country2.html>
I can't make the links work but you can paste them in your browser.[/i]
There you are. The site deals with human trafficking, including children. Interesting that with all its horror stories around the globe, no mention is made of the Internet. Or libraries. The one story told relating to the US involved a child who was picked up off the street during a "park walk."
posted on October 15, 2002 10:14:49 PM new
One last word to you. I hardly believe you are a librarian because you don't seem to be very well informed or read. I think you are most probably a person who puts displaced books back on the shelves and calls yourself a librarian. In my state a librarian must have a college education. Your little tag on your posts does not appear to be somthing that an educated person would say but more a blue collar kind of bumpersticker mentality of road weary construction worker. My only regret it that I actually tried to a discussion with you about some social concerns but everything is a cynical witch hunt in your mind and society just uses the issue of explotation of children to justify the ulterior motives to repress your perverted view of what is freedom of speech. Perhaps you should change your little tag to "life is hard the I die". Don't speak for me.
[ edited by artdoggy on Oct 15, 2002 10:16 PM ]
posted on October 15, 2002 10:22:02 PM newOne last word to you. I hardly believe you are a librarian because you don't seem to be very well informed or read. I think you are most probably a person who puts displaced books back on the shelves and calls yourself a librarian. In my state a librarian must have a college education.
Sorry, Artdoggy: MLIS (Master of Library & INformation Science) from UCLA (an accredited library degree university) in 1980. With a BA in Literature.
Your little tag on your posts does not appear to be somthing that an educated person would say but more a blue collar kind of bumpersticker mentality of road weary construction worker.
Another cheap shot, but then you seem to specialize in them.
My only regret it that I actually tried to a discussion with you about some social concerns but everything is a cynical witch hunt in your mind and society just uses the issue of explotation of children to justify the ulterior motives to repress your perverted view of what is freedom of speech.
Translation: I don't like your opinions and, since your refuse to immediately come over to *my* way of thinking (& worse, can discuss things logically without getting in a lather), I will take my toys and go home.
So if I knew someone like you worked in my local library I would not go there because you are a threat to children quite obviously. Perhaps you should change your little tag to "life is hard the I die". Don't speak for me.
posted on October 16, 2002 04:33:20 AM new
There's a point she made which has been overlooked. It seems in artdoggy's world, it is the governments job to protect the children (tm). What happened to the parents in all this zeal? ( I thought that was the parent's job)
Ciao.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww You have the right to an informed opinion -Harlan Ellison
posted on October 19, 2002 11:55:28 AM new
Does nobody notice that Bunnicula speaks from first hand experience and art doggys statements are all of the someone told me variety? There are tons of "experts" ready to tell you what is out there on the web - each slanted to suit their own agenda. But what are our own experiences
In all the years online - and I was using the internet well before there was a web or graphic browsers - I have had a pornographic site come up unitended from a search ONCE.
If artdoggy can not even make an active link in the posts perhaps that indicates a need to learn how to do things first hand.
