posted on March 20, 2003 04:21:26 PM new
It wasn't a dig Twelvepole. I've heard about Gulf War Syndrome and about how many soldiers were affected, and still are. After reading Helen's article, it looks like the cause could have come from a number of places. That's an awful lot of Vets applying for compensation for what could be a mild chemical dose. It's good that you haven't been affected, but I hope you give credit to those who have and don't want war for those very reasons.
posted on March 20, 2003 05:12:56 PM new
Quote "Ten Reasons Why Many Gulf War Veterans Oppose Re-Invading Iraq
anonymous Gulf war veteran"
Would not even sign his name if I beleive in something I would sign my name to it.
As a Retired Vet yes I was in the Gulf, I take offense to the know it all anti war people, Any Professional Soldier does not water at the mouth for war we train for war to prevent it and always wish for Peace.Have you ever tried to brew beer in the field it is a big pain in the A$$.
The media knows only the tip of the iceberg on information and it is not privy to the other 99.999% in the last action in the gulf the military rewrote the book on PR and played the media like a fiddle and used them for disinformation.So which means the typical American only knows what the media knows or speculates ( Hyped Up ).
My main concern is are our troops ready for a prolong action in NBC clothing (Mopp Gear)were they train enough and is it the best that money could buy.
If you want to read a honest objective website go to http://www.sftt.org/dw_archive.html
sorry I could not remember how to do links
I am tired of the fence setters and the wringing of the hands liberals and I do not want to see Armed forces personnel being shamed or spit upon because they were there doing their duty.
Just because you did not vote for our President or agree with his policys or actions he is still our CIC ( commander In chief )I took an oath when I joined in the late 70s and even now that I am retired I still hold that oath close to my heart.
posted on March 20, 2003 05:15:25 PM new
:: I don't subscribe to commie socialist crap.::
What decade are you living in?
:: If you can't stand being painted with the broad brush, why don't you renounce the commies and socialists that are leading YOUR political position.::
Simple, because I don't get my beliefs from a can. I don't subscribe to a service that tells me how to feel. The fact that I believe that Saddam can be removed from power with less than 250,000 men and for something under the current estimate of 100 BIllion dollars a day does not make me a communist. If you can't see that there is no point in going on with this, you are to closed minded to have a debate with.
Fred - ::If you support the troops, then you support the commander and chief ( Bush )::
Care to take a bet on that? This mandatory singluar line of thought process thing must be catching... You and Reamond need to understand that humans are capable of complex thought processes which enable them to examine and form opinions on individual issues based on their unique attributes. Positions do not come in a Buy One - Get 3 Free" package.
I support our troups. I hope they are able to find a way to accomplish their objective in the fastest possible way with an absolute minimal loss of human life (afterall, it's a relatively small family that needs to be taken out here).
I do not however in any way shape or form support the individual who sent them there. His lack of diplomatic skills is an embarassment and quite frankly, I do not trust him as far as I can throw him.
posted on March 20, 2003 05:41:06 PM new
Lucky.....::I am tired of the fence setters and the wringing of the hands liberals and I do not want to see Armed forces personnel being shamed or spit upon because they were there doing their duty::
While I cannot speak for the others I can assure you that I and many of the others that I know that are against this war will never treat our armed service members with anything but respect. They made a commitment, they are living up to it and they deserve nothing less.
I can only hope that others will see it the same way.
posted on March 20, 2003 05:49:58 PM newSUPPORT OUR TROOPS! SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT!
He can't possibly share all the intelligence data he sees with all of us. He is a good man who is doing the best job he can for us. Even if you don't agree with his methods, you should support the office of the presidency.
posted on March 20, 2003 06:19:54 PM new
I am still in shock to see all these Bushites
actually beliveing all the propoganda.Wake up people this whole operation is corrupt.I dont understand how people cant see that.Its so obvious.Their are multiple reasons why Bush wants to concor Iraque.If his only reason for going to war would be to get rid of Sadamme then we wouldnt be going to war.There are other reasons behind this,and we so called "Un Americans" know what they are.Come on Bushites use you're common sense and think about this.Its not hard to figure this out.
Also,has anyone noticed that Bush doesnt give a damn about our economy.HE DOESNT CARE!
Just like most Republicans.
Has anyone noticed whenever a republican is President, jobs are more scarce and our economy is always weak.
Ok,everybody think back and remember how life was when Bill Clinton was pres................
.......
Yea..........
posted on March 20, 2003 06:36:19 PM new
Yeah. When ol' Bill was president, teens learned that oral sex wasn't really "sex" and it was okay to lie as long as you got away with it.
What really gets me is that liberals assume their sources are giving them the exact truth, yet question the data conservatives have as if it is all lies. There is dis-information on both sides. You will never know the complete truth.
I believe most the people across the nation are conservative. The liberals are just louder and more annoying!
posted on March 20, 2003 06:46:25 PM new
Im just calling it like I experience it.I am a small business owner and everytime republican is in office business is slower.
Come on Bushites you know its true.You know that he is full of it.You know that it is the stuck up arrogant republican way for them to run the country a ways that benefits themselves.(The Rich).
So what,Bill Clinton got a little head.Why is it a big deal?
I think stealing the presidency like Bush did is a waaaayy bigger deal.And you Bushites know it!
If he would do somethin like that,then you know he is a bulsh***er
posted on March 20, 2003 06:54:11 PM new
From the Article...
Studies by respected medical organizations estimate that the death toll could rise to the hundreds of thousands. Confidential U.N. documents warn that a war could trigger a "humanitarian emergency of exceptional scale" -- including the possibility that 30 percent of Iraqi children could die from malnutrition.
Today the administration doesn't seem to be heeding the international relief agency warnings about an attack's horrendous aftermath.
The potential disasters are among the many reasons why decent human beings do not contemplate the threat or use of violence, whether in personal life or international affairs, unless reasons have been offered that have overwhelming force. And surely nothing remotely like that justification has come forward.
posted on March 20, 2003 07:02:45 PM new
Another interesting point made by Chomsky
Saddam remains a terrible threat to those within his reach. Today, his reach does not extend beyond his own domains, though it is likely that U.S. aggression could inspire a new generation of terrorists bent on revenge, and might induce Iraq to carry out terrorist actions suspected to be already in place.
Right now Saddam has every reason to keep under tight control any chemical and biological weapons that Iraq may have. He wouldn't provide such weapons to the Osama bin Ladens of the world, who represent a terrible threat to Saddam himself.
And administration hawks understand that, except as a last resort if attacked, Iraq is highly unlikely to use any weapons of mass destruction that it has -- and risk instant incineration.
I'm starting to think that you are the most unclear thinking hypocrite on this board. I also think you are a coward. Here's why.
In the thread Protester Dies.
meadowlark say,
I consider it unfortunate, but have no sympathy for her stupidity. Stupidity comes from knowing better and going ahead anyway. She is no martyr, simply someoine who didn't exercise common sense.
Helenjw replies,
Patty,
Neverthless, It's grossly insensitive to call the girl stupid.
In this thread, No to War.
Helenjw says,
While I do support our troops and would bring them home if it were my decision to make,...
kraftdinner says, (in reference to Twelvepole)
Did you suffer from vaccine side-effects or any chemical damage while in the Gulf Twelvepole?
Helenjw says, (in her very nest reply)
LOL Kraftdinner,
Now Helen, how can you say that you support out troops when you make such irrational remarks. You feel bad that the US is at war and that you support thier efforts. In your nest breath you make crude remarks about a veteran who was vaccinated against chemical weapons. How crude a person are you?
ALL VETERANS deserve respect.
Kraftdinner, I can understand your not caring to be involved in the war. As a Canadian, your country which borders the US, enjoys the protection of the US Military. If we, the US, allow something to happen to Canada, then we are next. We like to look after our neighbors, (neighbours just for you).
Helen, you can type out nonsense here all night long until your fingers turn raw. You are in the minority opinion. You should better spend your time writing a safety manual for the safe operations of bulldozers. That is, since you apparently know a lot about that too.
posted on March 20, 2003 07:09:02 PM new
Yeager...I don't care what you think. lol
Interesting remark about North Korea...
"Right now, Washington is teaching the world a dangerous lesson: If you want to defend yourself from us, you had better mimic North Korea and pose a credible threat. Otherwise we will demolish you."
posted on March 20, 2003 07:13:18 PM new Great introduction...
The most powerful state in history has proclaimed that it intends to control the world by force, the dimension in which it reigns supreme.
President Bush and his cohorts evidently believe that the means of violence in their hands are so extraordinary that they can dismiss anyone who stands in their way.
The consequences could be catastrophic in Iraq and around the world. The United States may reap a whirlwind of terrorist retaliation -- and step up the possibility of nuclear Armageddon.
Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and company are committed to an "imperial ambition," as G. John Ikenberry wrote in the September/October issue of Foreign Affairs -- "a unipolar world in which the United States has no peer competitor" and in which "no state or coalition could ever challenge it as global leader, protector and enforcer."
posted on March 20, 2003 07:15:06 PM new
A plane could fall on your house, a rhino could escape from the zoo and the French could apologize. Anything in the world could happen, anything you can imagine. Those who practice disinformation in the liberal community use words to create such mental images that cause a negative emotional response to gather support based on emotional upset, less than on facts.
There are very likley already children starving in Iraq, women recovering from rape, men serving in Iraqi armies because they and their families were threatened by their leaders with torture or death if they do not. The people of Iraq suffer mightily every day.
Helen, you cannot tell me that if a kidnapper/child molester/murderer came up to you while you were holding onto your dearest child that you would not keep him from taking yoiur child by fighting tooth and toenail? Violence IS called for to protect oneself in some cicumstances.
No issue is all black or white. There are always shades of gray. What is appropriate in one situation may not be appropriate in another.
One must use judgement. One must actually think for themselves, which is what I have seen as the case with most of the conservatives posting here.
War is not always right, but is is not always wrong either.
I don't expect to convince you of anything. I post this for the benefit of others. One must always make their own decision. I have made mine.
posted on March 20, 2003 07:25:06 PM new
Saddam's reach extended into Kuwait today with missles.
I really think that we are going to see that if Saddam is cornered, he will use every effort to use weapons of mass destruction to die as a "martyr". He has repeatedly shown he does not CARE what destruction he reaps on his own people. He only cares about threats to Saddam and his own personal power.
Some here cannot quite get it in their heads that Saddam is smart and crafty, but not sane. He is very evil and if he knows the game is up, he will create as big an effect as he can when he goes. He hasn't used his weapons of mass destruction yet likley because:
1.) He had to drag them out of hiding and get them ready.
2.) He still thinks world opinion can be swayed his way, and if he uses them, everyone would see the U.S. was right.
If he thought he could get away with it right now, he would.
posted on March 20, 2003 07:51:06 PM new
Actually yeager, the U.S. might need Canada more than you think. The U.S. needs to protect its interests in Canadian resources - oil, fresh water, lumber, etc., so having protection from attack is the price the U.S. pays. It's an equal exchange... we like to look out for our neighbours too.
posted on March 20, 2003 08:08:09 PM new If you support the troops, then you support the commander and chief(Bush)
Maybe you, but not everyone. I have three relatives in the thick of the war right now.Two are special forces career military and I suspect they are in Iraq at this moment.At a family gathering this last weekend, over 100 of us expressed to their wives (one is my little sister) our support for them and thier fellows in arms. I support them and their fellow soldiers, sailors and airmen. I pray they will do the job they have been ordered to do well and with honor, and that they will come home safely. They volunteered for service and I have no quibble with their decision to enlist. Part of enlistment is a promise to carry out the decisions of leadership.
None of this means I am obligated to become a hoo-ray supporter of their commander-in-chief, or that I am required to believe what he and his oil-maggot advisors tell me is the truth. Here we go again with the All-or-Nothing attitude. It must truly be nice to have the world so well delineated.All just good guys versus the pinko commies. If you don't support or even have questions about this war, you must be a bad guy. As reamond/REAMOND says "the truth is narrow".
posted on March 20, 2003 08:12:34 PM new
With the exception of Lake Michigan, we share all of the Great Lakes. Lake Michigan borders Michigan and Wisconsin. Please educate me on the where we get water from Canada. There are only 5 states that aren't on the St. Lawrence Seaway or the Great Lakes.
posted on March 20, 2003 08:16:57 PM new
:ne must use judgement. One must actually think for themselves, which is what I have seen as the case with most of the conservatives posting here.::
And yet you say that if one supports our troops they MUST also support our president.
The fact is that conservative refuse to accept there my be some type of logical thought process behind a liberals way of thinking (I.e: you referring to them as low to the ground trolls in another thread) but that they may travel a different path.
What is even stranger is that when one of those evil communist low to the ground troll liberals actually has a similar opinion to conservatives you even find a way to argue with THAT, find evil in it and rejoice in still another opportunity to self righteous judgements and name calling.
Apparently it's impossible for me to say that I have respect for people that have made a committment and follow thru with it and for it to actually be true. Apparently my opinion on this matter is actually formed by my desire to wash myself of the guilt of the way soldiers were treated when they returned home during my toddler years.
Perhaps you should change your banner. "Support Our Troups....unless you are liberal cause we won't believe you anyway."
posted on March 20, 2003 08:19:22 PM newYeah neo, more people on here and the USA favor my posts over yours
Reminds me of that thread where you claimed to have more books in your library, or to have read more books than someone else reamond..did you by any chance have an unfortunate playground "mine's bigger than your's is" incident? If you did, you really need to let it go...
posted on March 20, 2003 08:28:02 PM new
Umm... Neon,
I didn't say that, "fred" did. I reposted the kitty with the additional statement with a sense of humor, lost on some here!
Like I said in another thread, many liberals here just don't have a sense of humor. The troll comment did not mean you. I was referring to one person in particular even though I used the plural.
posted on March 20, 2003 08:48:13 PM new
Meadow.......
I am so confused........ Eight hours of the talking heads have dulled my brain
Totally off Subject..... Am I the only person that found themselves screaming "Screw the glasses, when he he get the other chin?" at the commentators trying to fingure out if that was really Saddam last night?
posted on March 20, 2003 08:55:17 PM newI do not however in any way shape or form support the individual who sent them there. His lack of diplomatic skills is an embarassment and quite frankly, I do not trust him as far as I can throw him
That statement is the height of hypocrisy. How is that if the President of the United States and the US Congress makes a decision, it is invalid UNLESS the UN goes along with it?
Talk about complex thought processes.
You are upset that the United States refuses to give up its sovereignty to the UN. What a disgrace.
It is impossible to support our troops and not their mission and commander in chief. It has nothing to do with "complex thought processes" and everything to do with being consistent in your goals and means.
It is a shame how small minded people can allow their hatred of Bush cloud their sense of patriotism and protecting American interests.
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ne must use judgement. One must actually think for themselves, which is what I have seen as the case with most of the conservatives posting here.::
