posted on April 23, 2004 09:42:08 AM new
I heard that last night on the news. He was a brave young man...with a great future ahead of him....just like all of our great men and women who believe they have a country worth defending from those who wish to harm us.
posted on April 23, 2004 02:02:16 PM new
Pat Tillman, who walked away from a football career to join the military after the 9/11 attacks, was killed Thursday while serving as an Army Ranger on a mission in Afghanistan, Pentagon officials told CNN. "Pat knew his purpose in life," said Dave McGinnis, who coached Tillman in the NFL. "He proudly walked away from a career in football to a greater calling.
posted on April 23, 2004 02:17:10 PM new
Well each to his own opinion and I really don't think it required that statement. It's to bad that people cant see past the blinders on their eyes. There are boys who will defend their country and give their lives.
posted on April 23, 2004 03:57:03 PM new
Do you mean my post Libra? You don't see his death, at age 27, to be a waste? Tell me what any of the American deaths have accomplished?
posted on April 23, 2004 04:35:32 PM new
KD - I know it's hard to for some to understand why a person feels strongly about serving their country....but thank God we have brave men/women like Pat Tillman who do want to do so.
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I'm going to post two articles that will give a 'glimpse' into the person that Pat Tillman was.....as are/were tens of thousands of soldiers who have chosen to serve their country. Both were written before his death....but honor the man he was.
First:
[b]Tackling terrorism
Many touched by Tillman's sacrifice[/b]
Tim Tyers
The Arizona Republic
Sep. 11, 2002
Former Cardinals safety Pat Tillman turned his back on a three-year, $3.6 million contract and enlisted in the U.S. Army with designs on becoming a Ranger.
He was newly married, with a chance for lifetime financial security. But those close to him say he had wanted to make a difference since the terrorist attacks last Sept. 11.
He hasn't been heard from in the media since making his decision in May.
Tillman, who became a Cardinal after a celebrated career at Arizona State, has refused all requests to talk about his decision to trade training camp for basic training, which started in July.
But it hasn't stopped others from saluting his effort.
"God love him. America is lucky to have guys like him," Diamondbacks first baseman Mark Grace said. "It's beyond impressive."
Randy Reid/The Arizona Republic
Pat Tillman gave up a $3.6 million contract with the Cardinals to enlist in the U.S. Army.
Tillman has sworn family and friends to codes of silence. They say little, largely because Tillman has told them he wants to achieve his Ranger goal before talking. The Army is shielding him from the media, despite numerous national requests.
Often forgotten is that Tillman's younger brother, Kevin, who played baseball at ASU and was in the Cleveland Indians organization, enlisted with him. When people approach their father, attorney Pat Tillman Sr., and [b]praise the sacrifice his celebrated son has made, he holds up two fingers[/i].
"He and his brother are doing well and have risen to every challenge presented to them," said Elsi Jackson, a civilian public affairs officer at Fort Benning, Ga.
Jackson said the Tillmans will complete advanced individual training at the end of October, then go to a three-week parachute training course, followed by a three-week Ranger regimen course.
They'll be assigned to a unit in January for nine to 12 months before returning to Ranger school.
"I've talked to his wife (Marie), and I got a letter from Pat," Cardinals defensive coordinator Larry Marmie said. "He's doing well. Everything was positive. He just talked about the work they've been through. He wished us the best and wanted to tell everybody hello."
The question posed by many in our cash-crazed society is: [b]Why would somebody with the world at his fingers make such a sacrifice[/i]? In a recent article, the New York Times suggested that Tillman lost friends in the twin towers disaster and that spurred his decision.
Family members have said this is not the case.
"He told me it was a lot of things," Marmie said. "It was something he had thought about for a long time. He felt he had lived a very comfortable life and in some way - now this isn't word for word - he needed, not wanted, to pay someone back. He felt that he was in debt to somebody for the kind of life he had up to this point.
"He is a very, very intelligent guy who is all about challenges. I don't think he was a highly recruited guy to Arizona State, but he came to ASU because somebody saw something in him. But he came and proved himself there, and he certainly had to prove himself at this level and at another position.
"A couple of summers ago, he came to me and said he was going to run a marathon and did, and the next summer he said he was going to do a triathlon and did."
Others close to the Tillman brothers said neither of them "wants stuff happening in their back yard," a reference to the terrorist attacks.
"Pat is a live-for-the-day type of guy. He wants to make the best of his days, so I wasn't surprised,"
Cardinals safety Kwamie Lassiter said. "It's the type of guy he is: 'What else can I do to help somebody?' I have respect for him. He worked hard. He was seventh-rounder and made the best of his opportunity. He worked hard and established himself as a strong player. He's a stand-up guy."
Tillman's decision to forgo the security that a pro contract would have provided hasn't gone unnoticed among other athletes in Phoenix. "I don't know him, but I've seen him play and I'm a huge fan of his," said Coyotes wing Shane Doan, a Canadian. "Everybody wants something that they can believe in passionately, and everybody believes passionately in their country. At the same time, he gave up a whole lot to do that. It's just a neat thing. You just wish him all the best."
Diamondbacks outfielder Luis Gonzalez said Tillman's decision has touched the entire community.
"He left a lot of money out there to achieve something in his heart that he wanted to do," he said. "You can't fault the man for that. Everybody loved watching him play, from his intensity to the way he approached the game. He has taken the high road on interviews and things like that. He's doing what he wants and not for recognition.
"The recognition steamrolled because he did something nobody believed anybody would ever do, leave a pro sport to join the military."
Grace said: "From what I've heard about Pat, he will be a Ranger, and he's going to defend our country. Nothing but kudos for him. I've met him, but I really don't know him. But I'd like to get to know him better."
By Greg Garber
ESPN.com
While Pat Tillman's former Arizona Cardinals teammates sweat and grimace their way through an off-season conditioning program -- a heavy rotation of weight lifting and aerobic exercises -- Tillman faces the prospect of the ultimate sacrifice.
A member of the elite Army Rangers, Tillman presumably is on the ground somewhere in the splintered country of Iraq. Deployed in early March along with the rest of the 75th Ranger Regiment, he and his comrades are working to liberate Iraq from the grip of Saddam Hussein's regime.
Tillman, at 26 years old, left a three-year, $3.6 million contract on the table to enlist in the Army with his brother Kevin after the 2001 season. Tillman will make no more than $17,000 this year. He is believed to be the first NFL regular to leave the game for military service since World War II, when 1,000 players served and 23 were killed.
Tillman's commitment has inspired shock and, quite frankly, awe.
"It touches you pretty deep," Cardinals head coach Dave McGinnis said at the recent NFL meetings. "Pat Tillman is a guy that is full of fiber, full of fabric, everything that he does goes right to the core of what is good and sound in our country."
John McCain, the U.S. Senator from Arizona who was a prisoner of war for more than five years in Vietnam, lauded Tillman as "the quintessential definition of a patriot."
The Rangers are the Army's finest light infantry unit, whose standard weaponry are machine guns, mortars and grenade launchers. It was the Rangers who conducted a daylight raid in Somalia, an event upon which Ridley Scott based his 2001 film, "Black Hawk Down."
"They strike quickly, with great precision and lethality," said Carol Darby, the news media chief for the Army Special Operations command at North Carolina's Fort Bragg.
"They break things open so other people can come in behind them."
After Tillman made his ground-breaking decision to serve his country in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, some wondered if others in the athletic arena -- in many minds, a parallel universe to the crucible of war -- would come in behind him.
And while there has been an outpouring of support for the U.S. troops from athletes in all sports, no other high-profile professional athlete has followed Tillman's selfless example. In fact, former Cardinals teammate Simeon Rice, now a member of the Super Bowl champion-Tampa Bay Buccaneers, disparaged Tillman in an interview on Jim Rome's radio show last month.
Pat Tillman has been alone among today's professional athletes at the highest level, giving up his career to serve his country.
"He really wasn't that good, not really," Rice said. "He was good enough to play in Arizona, [but] that's just like the XFL."
After several more promptings from Rome, Rice allowed, "I think it's very admirable, actually. You've got to give kudos to a guy like that because he did it for his own reasons. Maybe it's the Rambo movies, maybe it's Sylvester Stallone, Rocky, whatever compels him."
More likely, it was Tillman's love for America, not to mention his brother, who also enlisted. In the aftermath of the interview, Rice's remarks were seen as symptomatic of today's privileged, self-centered professional athletes who have been enabled from their earliest playing days.
"A professional athlete's career is self-indulgent almost by definition," said Alan Klein, professor of sociology and anthropology at Northeastern University. "Risking your career and your life is not an easy decision. They're content to wear a patch on the uniform for solidarity, but that's the easy way out.
Really, we're all taking the easy way out.
"My parents were in [Nazi concentration camp] Auschwitz. All my life, I've heard about the acts of bravery and sacrifice. We would all like to think of ourselves as people who would do the right thing. But, deep down, how many of us would give up everything we have? Certainly, it's not a lock."
posted on April 23, 2004 04:48:31 PM new
Linda, I have the utmost respect for soldiers. I just wish there was a more diplomatic way to deal with "bad" people instead of these useless killings, that's all.
And Libra, I think I know what you're saying. In a way Pat made the ultimate sacrifice for his country, which imo, makes him a hero, but I still think it's a waste of a young man's life. Many of these soldiers aren't even 20 yet - just babies, and that's sad when they're called to war.
posted on April 23, 2004 06:19:24 PM new
Well I think you could have handled this post differently KD.
Boys and Men have died for our Country since the beginning of time. As always there are ones that don't. But tribute should be made to this young man as he lived and died for his country. Which he was very proud of.
On the way surfing through trying to find a post that I had made I came across a website that said find any Civil War Veteran's war record for free. I was fortunate to find my Great Grandfathers, he was age 17 when he entered.. He served for the entire time of the Civil War. He is one who survived. Although not truly a war hero but in my mind he was, mustered out at age 23.
So you see in that young man's eyes he wasn't a waste. He knew he needed to enlist and fight so that we can be free. I thank God for that so that my Daughter, Son-in-Law and 2 children whill enjoy their life fully in America.
posted on April 23, 2004 06:35:50 PM new
What a load of BS!!! Please, even people who strongly support the war would naturally feel it was a waste for a young life to be lost this way.
Next you'll be posting that the parents are parading through the streets weeping for joy at their son's death shouting "isn't it wonderful that our son gave his life in Iraq?!?"
Give me a break.
edited to put in spaces where needed. Gotta get a new keyboard one of these days...
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
[ edited by bunnicula on Apr 23, 2004 06:40 PM ]
posted on April 23, 2004 07:21:41 PM newLinda, I have the utmost respect for soldiers
Whew Stop kraft, laughing so hard eyes are watering... you sure your sick... seems like you are funnier...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Apr 23, 2004 07:22 PM ]
posted on April 23, 2004 07:42:29 PM new
bunnicula-it doesn't deserve an answer but if you are an American you would understand. This has nothing to do Democrats or Republicans it is about a young man who gave his life so that we can enjoy a much better one. I have sympathy for his family and I know that it will be hard for them to understand why he did it. It is not about waste it is about this young man who gave up a multimillion dollar contract to defend his country. Evidently America meant more to him than his high priced contract.
posted on April 23, 2004 07:52:47 PM new
Libra, I stand behind all of my posts, I was just trying to clarify my original post so it was easier for some here to grasp.
"laughing so hard eyes are watering"
What's with the oriental accent, Twelve? Practicing for something?
posted on April 23, 2004 07:58:32 PM new
You're right--it doesn't have anything to do with Democrats or Republicans (neither party I ama member of, BTW). It's about expressing regret at the waste of a life. Even when given in what some may think is a good cause, it is still a waste.
You'll notice that Kraft made no mention of politics in her post.
I think when people start believing that no regret should be shown at the loss of one of our soldier's lives "because they died for what they believed in," they need to step back, take a deep breath, and give some more thought to their own beliefs. Because something is very wrong with that attitude.
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on April 23, 2004 08:22:35 PM new
Do you think I don't regret the loss of his life. Then you should get a life. I regret any life that is lost whether in combat or not. I think you read between the lines and see only what you want to see. You know we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the young men and women of the armed forces that fought and died for our (this meaning everyone not just me) country. Not just now but since the beginning....Even thought I didn't know that young man I have a heavy heart for the family and friends he left behind. He died for what he believed in.
posted on April 23, 2004 08:25:39 PM new
I'm not Libra - but I have an opinion anyway. I think the word "waste" is a big part of the problem. It (to me at least) implies that he made bad choices and thus wasted his life.
Could it be that to say it's a "shame" would be more to the point? That is, it's a shame that he did not live to come back to his bride and family. It's a shame that all the potential he had will never be fully realized ( as would be true with anyone who dies young).
Maybe it's just semantics, but I think the "waste" seems harsh and critical of the young man, whereas "shame" seems more compassionate than judgmental.
posted on April 23, 2004 08:37:22 PM new
Shame & waste have two separate meanings. I call it a waste because of the future he'll never see, not because the life he did have was meaningless.
Just a thought... how come only republicans question my posts?
posted on April 23, 2004 09:04:49 PM new
KD-there you go saying something you know nothing about. You do not know what my voting record is or what political party I belong to so to say something like that just reflects that you do not think before you post. There is nothing in my posts that states my political affliation. This post was only remarking on a young man who died in battle for a country that he loved....I cannot speak for him but I doubt if he thought he was a waste. I think of him as a hero who gave his life for his country. I think of all the men and women who did in the same manor in all wars. I will tell you that no one knows my political affliation not my husband or my Daughter, not even you. It's a private matter, well at least to me it is. I guess you just can't understand that. I come in here to find out what is what as I know everyone that posts has something to say and maybe SOME of it will be a little worth while.
posted on April 23, 2004 09:12:33 PM new
Hey, calm down Libra. I didn't realize being called a republican was such a bad word, so sorry if I offended you. Not always, but usually religious people are republicans. I see you as a religious person, so I assumed you were on the right. Why does this upset you so much?
posted on April 23, 2004 10:17:44 PM new
"but usually religious people are republicans. I see you as a religious person, so I assumed you were on the right. Why does this upset you so much?" Wow! Democrats and people on the left are not religious. I'm sure most of them are glad to hear that. I will make a point to tell my wife that before she says her nightly Prayer
posted on April 23, 2004 10:29:28 PM newJust a thought... how come only republicans question my posts?
Because liberal democrats are too stupid to...
Waste is where a liberal socialist mooched a liver off the government...
It is a shame this young man died, however it seems he died for something he believed in...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on April 23, 2004 11:42:46 PM new
I agree with those who felt 'wasted' was a very inapproriate word. His life was not wasted by any means.
And while his loved ones will most certainly mourn his death....I believe they too would find that term offensive. I doubt they'd say his life was wasted by any stretch of the imagination.
His life was taken by those who he recognized where/are trying to destroy our country....in Afghanistan....who he had the courage to go fight....and work to eliminate the threat the terrorists, including bin laden, are to our nation.
Without men and women like Pat Tillman we wouldn't be the nation we are today. They deserve to be honored and held in high regard....saying their life was wasted doesn't do that at all, imo.
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And FYI KD -
George Barna, the most respected pollster in religious matters, reports that 51 percent of Democrats attend a Protestant church and 28 percent attend a Catholic church. Twenty-eight percent of all 'born-again' adults are registered to vote as Democrats, according to Barna's surveys, as are 24 percent of all evangelicals.
Looking at the data from another direction, Barna says that 41 percent of Democrats are self-described born-again Christians.
A poll by ABC News found that 38 percent of all Democrats go to religious services on a weekly basis, exactly the same percentage as for Americans as a whole.
Recent Harris Interactive research reports that 78 percent of Democrats believe in God, only slightly less than the 79 percent of all Americans who believe.
In short, there are significant numbers of Democratic believers.
But believing Democrats who survey the field of Democrat presidential contenders might conclude that only the Republicans respect their faith.
--
Dr. David Hill is director of Hill Research Consultants, a Texas-based firm that has polled for Re-publican candidates and causes since 1988.
posted on April 24, 2004 07:44:36 AM new
Please explain this KD Believing in God and being religious are two separate issues I am waiting to hear this one.
posted on April 24, 2004 08:32:33 AM new
Not sure why you attempt to pull me into this thread. In the case you site "Waste is where a liberal socialist mooched a liver off the government..." Once and for all, I am on no form of public assistance.
Secondly I am a registered Green Party member not socialist.
With regard to KD's comment I agree in this context; any death caused by any war at any time in human history can be viewed as waste. No one ever won a war! Generally one war was nothing more than a prelude to the next.
posted on April 24, 2004 11:34:44 AM new
Libra, I believe in God but I don't believe in the Bible and I don't attend church. Now what about your answer to why my post made you so angry. I missed your response.
He was a brave young man...with a great future ahead of him....just like all of our great men and women who believe they have a country worth defending from those who wish to harm us.
