kraftdinner
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posted on April 24, 2004 08:17:49 PM new
Linda, I did not say the man's life was wasted. That's simply not true.
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kiara
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posted on April 24, 2004 08:20:38 PM new
I show my honor and respect and concern for all the soldiers that are fighting and for all the ones that have lost their lives.
I've continued here, strong in my beliefs and my words are for all to see. Please check the Grim Recap thread and More Soldier thread to see my true feelings and take note how others didn't respect the thread when some of us discussed the deaths and they laughed their way through it.
For those who feel the need to troll, I am asking you to have the guts to step forward and show where I have ever said any different. And I mean an actual copy and paste of my words and the thread where I said that I support the insurgents or the Taliban. Trust me, I have never said it because I do not support them. I stand by my words so either put up or shut up.
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Linda_K
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posted on April 24, 2004 08:30:03 PM new
KD it's scary to listen to them....
trust me .....many feel the same way when THEY read some of what's posted here too by the ultra liberals.
Like for me personally....it's very scary to hear the anti-any-war [or anti-military people] say some of the things they do. Because without our Armed Forces I really believe my country would have long ago been 'toast' a term bigpeepa likes to use.
It's scary to me how many appear to wish to take away one of our Constitutional rights....the right to practice our own religion [or not] because they disagree with what they say....or find their values/beliefs too restricting.
So....it works both ways.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Linda_K
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posted on April 24, 2004 08:39:58 PM new
trai I shall continue to encourage debate and opposing viewpoints...
well you're getting opposing viewpoints....so it's working 
---------------
KD - When anyone posts anything each of us will take it in a different way. The way we see it....how it comes across to us. I'm sorry you're having a problem with the fact that I agree the word 'waste' can be seen to have different meanings to each of us. But obviously it does.....and I have read your explanation after your original post....trying to explain how you meant when you used that particular word.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Reamond
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posted on April 24, 2004 08:44:28 PM new
But that's not the same as saying their religious organizations call for these acts. They don't.
You're simply wrong because they do, and they do it all the time.
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Linda_K
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posted on April 24, 2004 09:06:15 PM new
Okay reamond....let's establish a foundation/base here.
I'm saying there is no mainstream religious group that is calling for anyone's death. [calling for homosexuals to be beaten, murdered....calling for Federal buildings to be blown up, etc.]
I believe you are saying there is. Is that correct?
If so...maybe you would like to share which religious group [Christians, Jews, Catholics, etc.] in the US are calling for the deaths of those who don't hold the same beliefs they do.
[Like how I see most of the Muslim cleric leaders....and binladen....and AQ....and Hamas....etc.]
calling for the deaths of all Jews and infidels.
I'm sure there are some Muslim clerics that don't call for their supporters to murder our people....but one rarely hears/reads about them coming out publically and denouncing anyone who shares there faith.
But we do hear/read about all the al-sadr's of this world.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on April 24, 2004 09:16:56 PM new
Kiara, Twelve has NEVER shown proof of any of the lies he tells - NEVER. He's trying so hard to look like a big leader type, which nobody buys. Your posts have been nothing but admirable.
Linda, I know what you're saying and understand it. And I hope you too understand my side. I did not say his life was a waste. I said his death was a waste. If anyone chooses to extrapolate another meaning altogether, that's fine as long as you don't say it was MY meaning.
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Linda_K
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posted on April 24, 2004 09:33:25 PM new
KD - Your first post to this thread said only 'what a waste'. That can be taken different ways....according to the meaning we each given to the word 'waste'.
But your second post to the thread was: Do you mean my post xxxx? You don't see his death, at age 27, to be a waste? Tell me what any of the American deaths have accomplished?
There to me you were saying American deaths haven't accomplished anything. [I recognize it was in the form of a question] But right or wrong that's how I personally took it - AFTER your second post.
Since Pat Tillman died fighting the Taliban who would not turn binladen over to my country after what he and his AQ supporters had done on 9-11....your second statement, along with your usage of 'waste' lead me to form my own opinion that you believe his death was for nothing....no benefit....had been wasted because you believe 'nothing has been accomplished'.
And of course, I disagree with that statement. Pat Tillman gave his life going after binland and his gang so they wouldn't be able to pull any other 9-11s. To me that is not a waste.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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kiara
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posted on April 24, 2004 10:03:44 PM new
For everything there is a season,
And a time for every matter under heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die;
A time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal;
A time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to seek, and a time to lose;
A time to keep, and a time to throw away;
A time to tear, and a time to sew;
A time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate,
A time for war, and a time for peace.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
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kraftdinner
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posted on April 24, 2004 10:24:27 PM new
Linda, how many times have you seen stories on tv about a teenager that was shot and killed or a young person that was killed in an accident, and said "what a waste"?
You think differently than me. I don't think ANY of these soldiers should be dying because the whole reason for invading Afghanistan and Iraq were based on lies. They're losing their lives for nothing, imo. I think that's a waste of a human being. Sorry if you don't agree.
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Linda_K
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posted on April 24, 2004 10:58:05 PM new
KD - So now you admit you feel their lives are wasted....just as you were accused of implying. Then others disagreed....and you get all upset that they took what you said to mean exactly what you're admitting to now.
Sure...you and anyone else are free to hold a different opinion. Just as all are free to tell you what they think of that opinion.
There may be many who agree with you on the Iraq war....although, as you know I'm not one of them.
But I doubt you'd find much support from the citizens of MY country about your claim on Afghanistan.
And Pat Tillman gave his life to his country to fight the Taliban and to work towards capturing binladen. His life....nor every life given to their country is a waste. Many believe in going after our enemies...at least the majority of American's do.
And obviously your country did too....when they sent your soldiers to help in Afghanistan.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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fenix03
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posted on April 24, 2004 11:28:23 PM new
Head..... meet wall
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
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kraftdinner
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posted on April 24, 2004 11:36:10 PM new
Linda, I didn't say that. Why do you keep twisting my words around?
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Linda_K
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posted on April 25, 2004 12:03:53 AM new
KD - You just said....You think differently than me. I don't think ANY of these soldiers should be dying because the whole reason for invading Afghanistan and Iraq were based on lies. They're losing their lives for nothing, imo. I think that's a waste of a human being. Sorry if you don't agree.
The only way Pat Tillman and our other soldiers wouldn't be dying is if they weren't sent to begin with. He and others were sent to locate and disrupt the AQ in Afghanistan and to capture binladen.
You think that's a waste of his [their] lives....what part of that am I twisting according to you?
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Linda_K
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posted on April 25, 2004 12:39:05 AM new
KD said: Linda, I have the utmost respect for soldiers.
Imo, IF you had respect for men like Pat Tillman then you would RESPECT THEIR decision to join the military because THEY felt THEY wanted to do something for their country, something THEY believed in. You would accept they are adults who made a CHOICE to do what THEY did - sign up to serve/defend their country.
You disrespect them when you say their lives were lost for nothing because they obviously knew the dangers they faced when they signed up....but THEY felt the risk was worth the choice they made.
I just wish there was a more diplomatic way to deal with "bad" people instead of these useless killings, that's all.
Well....there's not. Imo, some [like you] need to deal with the world the way it is....not the way they 'wish' it was. Wishing isn't going to stop those like AQ - Binladen from working to do everything possible to carry out their promised threat to our nation.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Twelvepole
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posted on April 25, 2004 04:56:58 AM new
Your posts have been nothing but admirable
kraft told another funny... 
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
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Reamond
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posted on April 25, 2004 07:48:31 AM new
There is another aspect to the Tillman story that should be considered.
Tillman proably should not have been allowed in a combat area. His death can be used as propaganda for al Qaeda.
We send the best of our young men and they ambush and kill them. Tillman represented the apex of both physical and mental strength, and they killed him just like any other target.
While Tillman's death is should be no greater loss than any other soldier, the terrorists can make it seem so. His example plays three ways; One- he exemplified unselfish commitment to doing hid duty; Two- his death may be propaganda for the enemy; Three- his death may even prevent many from enlisting.
There is really no up side to putting celebrity soldiers in harms way.
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Helenjw
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posted on April 25, 2004 09:42:08 AM new
"People can be against this war and against this president and still love this country. In fact it is in most cases BECAUSE they love this country that they hold those beliefs. One does not form opinions on things they do not give a damn about."
I should make that my signature line, fenix.
Helen
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kraftdinner
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posted on April 25, 2004 11:03:13 AM new
Linda, again you have twisted my posts to suit what you want them to say. Again, the waste part is women and men dying at an early age, in this case it was Pat Tillman.
In 2 wars with questionable reasons for going there, I don't believe ANY soldiers should be dying. I don't know how to make that any more plainer to you.
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neroter12
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posted on April 26, 2004 05:20:14 AM new
Kraft, at one point didnt you say you agreed he died for a noble cause? To me then, if you agree that he died for a noble cause, even his death then wasnt a waste.
I think I understand Libra's feeling about the term waste now. Probably nobody's life or death should be associated with waste.
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