posted on May 5, 2004 07:05:25 PM new
What a mess. He had the opportunity to address the situation head on and truly blew it then McClellan adds to the blunder.
The difficulty of Bush's task became clear in the first question of a television interviewer who said the evidence of torture made many Arabs believe that the United States was no better than Saddam Hussein)'s government, notorious for torture and murder. The president murmured under his breath at the comparison.
What the hell is that? They certainly had to know that this was going to be the first question. He should have acknowledged that he understood why some might jump to the comparison and then spell out distinctly why it is wrong. Instead he started by immediately scoffing at the concern and in a childish manner as well. Does he not understand that idiot moves like that taint every word that follows?
Bush said the abuses were "terrible" for America's image abroad. "I think people in the Middle East who want to dislike America will use this as an excuse to remind people about their dislike,"
So, you have an opportunity to win people over and instead blow them off with this snide response? The Arab world is not going to drink the damn kool-aid, you need to actually prove that you are worthy of the trust you are asking them to have in you.
Separately, the administration asked Congress for an additional $25 billion for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, a change from the White House's earlier plans not to seek such money until after the November elections.
This really is becoming the Logic Optional Presidency isn't it.
Interviewed on the U.S.-sponsored Al-Hurra television network, Bush said that Iraqis "must understand that I view those practices as abhorrent. They must also understand that what took place in that prison does not represent the America that I know." Most U.S. soldiers are "good, honorable citizens that are helping the Iraqis every day," Bush said.
"It's also important for the people of Iraq to know that in a democracy, everything is not perfect, that mistakes are made," the president said.
Shouldn't there be a an and... at the end of that statement? Something such as
And we are will be putting together an oversight and inspection team of coalition and Iraqi members to ensure that these actions are never repeated.
Drawing a distinction with Saddam's government, he told Al-Arabiya, "A dictator wouldn't be answering questions about this."
But what good is answering questions is you invalidate the concerns of the people watching and do not apologize for the acts themselves as well as the concerns they have caused the Iraqi people?
"We've already said that we're sorry for what occurred and we're deeply sorry to the families and what they must be feeling and going through as well," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "The president is sorry for what occurred and the pain it has caused."
Asked why Bush himself had not apologized, McClellan said: "I'm saying it now for him."
Bad move! Exceedingly bad move! The man had two interview opportunities to say he was sorry to the arab people and instead we get it it from a third part after the fact? So much for honor.
McClellan said the IRC already can enter American-run facilities, but sidestepped repeated questions about admission for human rights organizations. "What's important as we move forward on these series of investigations that are under way is that the process is open and transparent," McClellan said.
Then why are we not seeing camera footage of IRC workers walking thru the prison talking to detainees?
Are these people that incapable of running a public relations campaign? It really takes a special breed of arrogance to believe a couple interviews and an apology from a press secretary is going to heal these wounds.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 5, 2004 07:25:00 PM new
Apologize shows weakness... President Bush said enough...
I think he did a good job with his interviews... This needs time to play out... need more information so all those involved have been questioned and punished if need be.
President Bush has nothing to apologize for... they are after all still prisoners.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on May 5, 2004 07:33:41 PM new
Wow! New low Twelve. It's ok to force a man to orally copulate another man as long as he is a prisoner? Even as a trolling comment that one is a perfect example of the worst of humanity. Congrats.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 5, 2004 07:37:34 PM new
Where have I said what was done was ok? Come on there fenix... post a quote there darlin...
You won't find one...
President Bush does not need to apologize, just punish those involved.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on May 5, 2004 07:39:33 PM new
Bush blew it bigtime, he had a golden opportunity to come out of this looking better than he is. He didn't apologize, he didn't look the least bit sorry and he was even smiling like this wasn't all that serious an issue. He was defending himself and his government, not reaching out to the Iraqi people and it really showed his true colors to all of the world.
The Iraqi people do not want to hear an apology from Scott's or Condi's lips, do they?
A tiny part of me wanted to believe that Bush could be a bit decent and say "I'm sorry" but he couldn't do it. He just dropped down another huge notch in my view.
posted on May 5, 2004 07:57:07 PM new
No, it doesn't...
His lack of action would show he condones that treatment...
Not an apology... He is a WORLD leader, no need to apologize, just correct the action...
I highly approved of his interviews and feel he did a good job.
More reason to vote for that MAN...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on May 5, 2004 08:01:56 PM new
::they are after all still prisoners.::
There you go my firend - that little comment diminishes them as people and implies justification. Bush is the Commander in Chief and the tropps act on his orders. The way to establish these people as renegades acting without cause or approval is with swift and public punishment and apologies for their actions. Funny that Rice and Mclellan can even recognize the need for an apology but you cannot.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 5, 2004 08:23:29 PM new
LOL, Oh well... take it as you want... they are prisoners and nothing you can say will change that.
I don't condone their treatment in this instance... however they should still be treated has prisoners...
But then again you probably think they should all be served caviar and plasma screen tv's...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
posted on May 5, 2004 08:25:22 PM newPresident Bush Meets with Al Arabiya Television on Wednesday
Interview of the President by Al Arabiya Television
The Map Room
10:33 A.M. EDT
Q Mr. President, thank you for giving us this chance here in Al Arabiya. Regarding the alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners, six U.S. soldiers are being reprimanded. Do you think that's enough?
THE PRESIDENT:
First, I want to tell the people of the Middle East that the practices that took place in that prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America. They represent the actions of a few people. Secondly, it's important for people to understand that in a democracy that there will be a full investigation. In other words, we want to know the truth.
In our country, when there's an allegation of abuse -- more than an allegation in this case, actual abuse, we saw the pictures -- there will be a full investigation and justice will be delivered. We have a presumption of innocent until you're guilty in our system, but the system will be transparent, it will be open and people will see the results. This is a serious matter. It's a matter that reflects badly on my country. Our citizens in America are appalled by what they saw, just like people in the Middle East are appalled. We share the same deep concerns. And we will find the truth, we will fully investigate. The world will see the investigation and justice will be served.
Q And you just -- you've said this is reflected badly here, in the United States of America. How do you think this will be perceived in the Middle East?
THE PRESIDENT:
Terrible. I think people in the Middle East who want to dislike America will use this as an excuse to remind people about their dislike. I think the average citizen will say, this isn't a country that I've been told about.
We're a great country because we're a free country, and we do not tolerate these kind of abuses.
The people of the Middle East must be assured that we will investigate fully, that we will find out the truth. They will know the truth, just like the American citizens will know the truth, and justice will be served.
Secondly, it's very important for the people of the Middle East to realize that the troops we have overseas are decent, honorable citizens who care about freedom and peace; that are working daily in Iraq to improve the lives of the Iraqi citizens, and these actions of a few people do not reflect the nature of the men and women who serve our country.
Q After these pictures came out, some people in the area started talking about another alleged abuse. Could you tell us about what's being done to prevent this from happening and just to improve the situation?
THE PRESIDENT:
Absolutely. I have told our Secretary of Defense, and I have instructed him to tell everybody else in the military, I want to know the full extent of the operations in Iraq, the prison operations. We want to make sure that if there is a systemic problem -- in other words, if there's a problem system-wide -- that we stop the practices.
Again, it's very important for people, your listeners, to understand, in our country that when an issue is brought to our attention on this magnitude, we act -- and we act in a way where leaders are willing to discuss it with the media. And we act in a way where, you know, our Congress asks pointed questions to the leadership. In other words, people want to know the truth. That stands in contrast to dictatorships. A dictator wouldn't be answering questions about this. A dictator wouldn't be saying that the system will be investigated and the world will see the results of the investigation. A dictator wouldn't admit reforms needed to be done.
And so the people in the Middle East must understand that this was horrible. But we're dealing with it in a way that will bring confidence to not only our citizens, which is very important, but confidence to people of the world that this situation will be rectified and justice will be done.
posted on May 5, 2004 08:32:31 PM new
Linda - do you see any problems with the statements of swift and transparent justice and the reality of the fact tht the events happened five months go and the president did not know until he saw it on CBS, that Rumsfeld had not bothered to read the report and that all of that those punished are un named thereby making verification more than a little difficult?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 5, 2004 08:41:35 PM new
fenix - What I usually see here is that no matter what this President does or doesn't do....he will be criticized for it.
posted on May 5, 2004 08:48:34 PM new
How's the investigation into the outing of a CIA agent by WH staff to the media through one of their right wing operatives (Novak) coming along?
Bush is unwilling to accept the responsibility for anything. Just continually tries to sweep it under the rug.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on May 5, 2004 08:54:04 PM newEvil acts of the past are never rectified by evil acts of the present.
– Lyndon B. Johnson, July 21, 1964
The best way to enhance freedom in other lands is to demonstrate here that our democratic system is worthy of emulation.
– James E. Carter
I will never apologize for the United States of America – I don't care what the facts are.
– George Bush, Newsweek, August 15, 1989 (Commenting on the shooting down of an Iranian airliner by the U.S. warship Vincennes, killing 290 civilian passengers.)
posted on May 6, 2004 05:18:01 AM new
I didn't know Saddam was on paar with President Bush in the World arena..
So that is why you all seem so misinformed
Let me help you on this... One Super Power... only one... President Bush leads that country quite ably... Hussien was dictator in a Third world country... not even close to being on paar with President Bush
plus
Many Many other differences, ones I am not going to educate anyone here with... go read and learn for yourselves.
Comparing President Bush to Saddam Hussien does show your true colors kraft and I have been right about you and the other two the whole time, thanks for proving my point.
Now go play anti-american somewhere else...
Your, Baghdad Helen's, kiara's diatribes are like broken records... we all know you're anti-american...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 6, 2004 05:30 AM ]
posted on May 6, 2004 07:06:00 AM new
I've ignored your stupid comments for weeks now, twelvepole but you continue to bring my name into things and attribute thoughts and words to me when they aren't mine. Once again I ask you to get some guts and find where I said what you are spewing. Copy and paste the quotes and thread links here ........ put up or shut up.
Each day you go to your computer and sit there trolling from one thread to the next as you adjust your tight little panties and write your silly little messages. You try to harrass, lie and bully your way through here hoping to scare everyone else away so only your Neandertal thoughts and views are left to be read.
Please realize that there are other individuals in this world who think much different than you do and who are proud to stand by what they believe in. At least they have the guts to write what they think and they leave their words for all to see. They don't have to troll the boards like you do. I ask you to grow up and quit being such a little coward, you should be ashamed of yourself.
posted on May 6, 2004 07:19:00 AM new
These "fine patriots" smear a war hero like Kerry and support a military deserter and liar like Bush and then have the nerve to call others un-American ?
It's people like that who get our military needlessly killed and helps the enemy.
Being stupid and foolish is not being patriotic nor is it supporting or helping our troops. Being critical of failed leaders is imperitive for a democracy to survive.
Bush is a failed leader and not criticizing him is un-patriotic.
posted on May 6, 2004 07:22:57 AM newThe President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.
– Teddy Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918
posted on May 6, 2004 07:30:05 AM new
Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see your anti-american stances kiara, until you and the other two start realizing that your words kill more americans than President Bush ever has I will not be stopping.
Your contistency of posting negative articles on the US shows your colors...
As you have said, I will post what I want when I want...
If I can get one person lurking here that anti-american sentiments are not accepted here, I feel justified.
Oh and if you even think I care one iota of what you say anymore when it is directed at me, you are sadly mistaken.
I have nothing but utter contempt for you, helen and kraft... the baghdad three.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
It's too bad that their blindness can't see they are killing more soldiers than President Bush ever has... Protest Loud and Proud! Your fellow taliban and insurgents are rejoicing at the support...
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 6, 2004 07:32 AM ]
posted on May 6, 2004 07:36:50 AM new
Please understand that it is not anti-American to criticize the president or the government. You can criticize the leader but still love the country.
Take one minute and read Teddy Roosevelt's quote that I posted above and think very carefully about it.
posted on May 6, 2004 11:58:24 AM new
Wow, more impact statements from Twelve! Actually, your one post had me in tears, it's so profound. Here's another statement for you to figure out... YOU remind me of Saddam, all pigeon breasted and full of hot air. You are wrong about everything you post with no apologies on the horizon because, as I mentioned before, it takes a real man with real guts to apologize, neither of which you would qualify for.
posted on May 6, 2004 02:50:44 PM newYour contistency of posting negative articles on the US shows your colors...
What I get the biggest kick out of is when they're constantly posting 'left winged' articles.....only agreeing with the left leaning posts made here and then get quite indignant when referred to as being seen as a 'leftie'. Like no one notices.
posted on May 6, 2004 03:04:39 PM new
I don't think that it is "lefties" that bugs people Linda, it s the arrogant and amazingly ignorant practice of calling anyone who does not share identical philosophies as "anti-american" that is generally found objectionable.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 6, 2004 03:16:52 PM new
Constantly posting "left wing" articles? If you mean me, Linda just take a look at all the topics on the RT main page. I haven't started a single one of them, let alone a "leftie" one. Neither have Helen or Krafty so that blows that little image right to hell.
Read what fenix just posted and do some thinking about it.
