posted on May 8, 2004 02:23:45 PM new
You gotta love that one Krafty - Thats a classic. I wonder what would happen if defendant brought that one up as arguement in a criminal trial. Lets just hope that the author and Linda are not on that jury.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 8, 2004 02:39:56 PM new* The overwhelming majority of inmates at the Abu Ghriab prison were suspected of having participated in or having knowledge of attacks against U.S. soldiers.Very few of the prisoners were common street criminals.
None of which means what has been going on there is right. Our soldiers have been attacking Iraqi fighters--are you saying that it would be OK for them to be treated this way if they were captured?!?
*The photographs of prisoners being abused were taken at a cellblock known as "The Hard Site," where the worst and most dangerous were being detained.
I see. So that makes what was done to them all right?
*To date, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the prisoners depicted in humiliating photos suffered anything more than embarrassment.
Simply untrue, as the military's own report shows. In any case, even those who weren't beaten and worse, should never have been treated in that matter. Would it be OK for captured US soldiers to be treated that way?
*At least two of the abused prisoners have embarked on a whirlwind tour of media interviews. And one even says he'd like to come to live in the homeland of his "torturers," the good old USA.
Why shouldn't they speak out to whoever will listen?
*None of the photos released to the media so far show anything like what has been alleged in anti-Bush administration media reports, which have ballyhooed allegations of forcible sodomy and even murder with little evidence to back the claims up.
The key words are "so far." Because before the photos we have seen came out, no one would have believed even that much could have been done by US soldiers, would they?
*The murder charges: Two allegations of murder have been reported so far.The first is apparently based on an incident detailed in the Taguba report, which chronicles a prison riot during which suspected terrorists hurled rocks at U.S. military guards.
Deaths can happen during riots and with so few guards for so many prisoners, one can see where deadly force might have to be used to quell an uprising. Though it was not intelligent of the one soldier mentioned to touch off the uprising by taunting inmates after one of their fellows was subdued after striking a guard.
*The other charge of murder refers to an Iraqi detainee who reportedly died after being grilled by a CIA interrogator. No further details of this case have been made public, including what type of intelligence the suspect was believed to be withholding or whether there was any provocation.
Doesn't matter what info he was holding or what provocation. Killing the person you're interrogating is just plain wrong & makes one question what methods were being used. And how would we react if our soldiers were interrogated this way?
*The Taguba report also details several prison uprisings by suspected terrorists, some of whom had obtained weapons from Iraqi guards recruited by U.S. authorities. U.S. guards were repeatedly injured in these altercations, with at least one shootout in a jail cell reported.[Under these circumstances, humiliation and intimidation tactics might have been employed to keep suspected terrorist inmates too disoriented and demoralized to mount more prison attacks].
Uh, no.
*It's worth reminding Americans about the case of Col. Alan West, who foiled a terrorist attack against his unit by extracting critical intelligence from an Iraqi detainee by firing his weapon into the air during an interrogation. Because Col. West exercised the good judgment to bend the rules of the Geneva Convention, countless U.S. soldiers in his unit - not to mention the Iraqi detainee - are alive today.
I will be interested to hear what our response is to other countries "bending the rules of the Geneva convention." Especially if it is soldiers they are being bent upon.
*It's also worth reminding Americans about the circumstances of the death of CIA interrogator Johnny 'Mike' Spann, the first casualty in the U.S.'s counterattack in the war on terror. Spann was killed when al Qaida prisoners jumped him and his partner during an interrogation session in Afghanistan.
Repeat after me: Afghanistan is not Iraq. Al Qaida has nothing to do with Iraq. Because something happens in Afghanistan, we do not make reprisals in Iraq.
*The only rape reported in any detail so far was allegedly committed by an Iraqi jail guard at Abu Ghraib who was recruited as part of the Iraqicization of the occupation. According to NBC's Jim Miklasewski, this Iraqi guard may have raped several female prisoners and perhaps even a young male detainee.
Perhaps--but the guy was operating under our watch, making it our responsibility.
And there's that "so far" again.
*The Taguba report includes an allegation of sodomy with a broomstick. This, along with most of the rest of the more lurid allegations being touted as gospel by the big media, is in fact based on the account of a suspected terrorist detainee.
Actually, several detainees and "other witnesses" is what the report says.
To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime.
Ah, there's that "to date" --akin to "so far." Well, the report was made months ago, and no pictures were seen--by the public, anyway--until a couple of weeks ago. I guess up to that point Rumsfield & Bush were saying the report couldn't be true because "To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime."
They can't say that anymore, thouhg, can they?
One wonders what prison inmates in America - or anywhere else for that matter - would say about their jailers if asked if they'd been abused.
If they'd been treated like those prisoner have, you can bet they'd say they had been.
*For some of the more partisan Democrats currently calling for Rumsfeld's head, the Bush administration would do well to remind the country that more innocents died at Waco than at Abu Ghriab - and nobody from the Clinton administration resigned back then. In fact, there was hardly any outrage whatsoever over what remains the worst law enforcement debacle in U.S. history.
Oh, please. You must have one of the shortest memories on record. There was a huge groundswell of protest and outrage over Waco. People called for Janet Reno's dismissal or resignation.
The most problematic allegation by far is that GIs charged with committing the abuse were ordered to do so by military intelligence to "soften-up" detainees in advance of interrogations.
You know, our country didn't buy the "I was simply following orders" defense when dealing with abuse dealt out by German guards during World War II. Not just the Nazi Party members or elite SS troops, but the run-of-the-mill German army guard. And the German populace in general. We haven't bought that defense from anybody else, either.
But I'm hearing folks in interviews stating that "he/she was just following orders--it's not his/her fault."
What a load of BS that is. It's just plain hypocritical. If it's wrong for anyone else to do, it's just as wrong for us to do.
Claiming that 9-11 and the "war on terror" justifies our military acting in this manner is also a crock of #*!@. We can't claim moral superiority or righteousness in our cause while at the same time acting like goons.
edited to put an "fe" where it belonged...
edited to change a "tt" to an "nn"...
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
[ edited by bunnicula on May 8, 2004 02:45 PM ]
[ edited by bunnicula on May 8, 2004 02:47 PM ]
BAGHDAD, Iraq – An investigation has been initiated into reported incidents of detainee abuse at a Coalition Forces detention facility. The release of specific information concerning the incidents could hinder the investigation, which is in its early stages. The investigation will be conducted in a thorough and professional manner.
The Coalition is committed to treating all persons under its control with dignity, respect and humanity. Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the Commanding General, has reiterated this requirement to all members of CJTF-7.
-30-
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No one is condoning any of these actions.....making comparisons etc...yes.
There's no reason to force Rumsfeld to resign for the actions of a few who will be dealt with in an appropriate manner WHEN they are each found quilty of what they are being ACCUSED of doing.
posted on May 8, 2004 03:42:16 PM new
Hey Linda - how are you reconciling in your mind your consistant assertations of innocent until proven guilty for the americans but not for the Iraqi detainees?
And yes Linda - calling sexual assault nothing more than embarassing is an attempt to condone it which you obviously bought into.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 8, 2004 04:00:35 PM new
I have never stated I condon this behavior, because I don't.
I'm making a point to show the left-leaning liberal bias and the political spin being put on the actions of those in our military and those in the administration. Actions that happened because of a very tiny number of people. Actions that haven't been condoned and actions that they will be punished for.
Yet....the dems are calling for EVERYONE'S heads.....like no one notices they wanted them to begin with.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:08:43 PM new
Even Bush and Rumsfeld acknowledge the inexcusable brutality that took place in the Iraq prison. You should too, linda.
Republicans are concerned also, linda. Take your Bush blinders off.
"We need to get all the facts. We need everybody to just take a deep breath and get all the facts," added Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a senior member of the same panel and himself a former prisoner of war.
Other Republicans expressed concern that military officials knew in January about the abusive and sexually humiliating treatment of prisoners, but did not inform Congress about it or about a subsequent investigative report prepared by a Pentagon official.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:08:59 PM new
LInda - you copied, pasted and bolded a statement stating that detainees forced to orally copulate each other suffered nothing more than embarassment.
What the hell does that have to do with anything "leftist"?
It was a horrifing and disgusting comment but there you are going to extra mile to bring it all to our attention in your defense of the action.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 8, 2004 04:12 PM ]
posted on May 8, 2004 04:17:44 PM new
Yes, helen, I agree with Sen. McCains statement you just posted.
So....take a deep breath....wait for all the facts to be in.....keep things in proper perportion before making this sound like it's the Holocost when it's not. It's the terrible actions of a few people.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:39:42 PM new
You are helen? How funny...you're so fickle about when you want my opinions and when you don't. Usually commenting that you don't care what I think....or what my opinion is.
Fenix - I'm not clear on which statement in my link you're referring to. Maybe you could c & p the exact statement you're referring to. Or are you referring to an allegation that has been made that's not in my link?
posted on May 8, 2004 04:45:19 PM new
Linda this statement is especially bizzarre even for you. Don't pretend that you don't know what fenix is talking about.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:45:20 PM newI'm not sure which I found more disgusting - the actions or or the pathetic attempts to somehow justify them.
Exactly, fenix.
Abuse shouldn't be tolerated anywhere whether it is done to another human or to an animal and it's very sad to see some here try to justify it or to actually compare it to past incidents.
Worldwide perception of the US is what really counts in the very end. All the voices of the good American citizens who speak out and say that these atrocities shouldn't be tolerated will help America overcome this even though it will take years to do so.
Edited to say that not all the Iraqi detainees were guilty. Some were innocent.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:51:00 PM newAbuse shouldn't be tolerated anywhere whether it is done to another human or to an animal and it's very sad to see some here try to justify it or to actually compare it to past incidents
I know....reading past incidents where the truth is stated is hard to do expecially when it's in regard to no one resigning over the Waco incident.
That's the whole point........IT'S NOT BEING TOLERATED. And no one's justifing it either. Some tried to use the excuse that this wasn't being investigated UNTIL it was shown on the news...........which I have proved untrue.
posted on May 8, 2004 04:56:06 PM new
Linda, reread some of the past topics here. You have spent days trying to justify it, even comparing it to the torture by Saddam.
posted on May 8, 2004 05:03:52 PM new
No kiara - I've been quite clear. These abuses are not acceptable. But reasonable people have the ability to keep things in their proper perspective....not blow the actions of a few misguided people into the whole administration/military should resign. Not make all kinds of false statements to enrage the situation even more.
posted on May 8, 2004 05:06:06 PM new
well helen...if you want that question answered you're just going to have to copy and paste where anything I bolded spoke of *oral copulation*.
posted on May 8, 2004 05:08:44 PM new
Actually there are a few questions I am still interested in some answers to...
1) Aren't you at least a little curious as to why the right wing is trying so hard to find justification for something that not even the military or Bush administration support.
2) How are you reconciling in your mind your consistant assertations of innocent until proven guilty for the americans but not for the Iraqi detainees?
3) LInda - you copied, pasted and bolded a statement stating that detainees forced to orally copulate each other suffered nothing more than embarassment.
What the hell does that have to do with anything "leftist"?
Twelve - Have there been trials? I have not heard of any trials. When were they?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 8, 2004 05:15:18 PM new
well then fenix - I guess I'm going to have to admit I'm blind. I have reviewed by post where I've highlighted....and bunni's post where she highlighted what I had highlighted. I see absolutely NO mention of oral copulation. If it's not my eyes....then maybe it's yours. How quick would it be to show it to me. I'd believe you....I just don't see it.
posted on May 8, 2004 05:21:36 PM new
Linda - one of the photos released shows it but coincidentally we also have this statement....
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 8, 2004 05:28:49 PM new
okay....so I didn't highlight it as you said I had.
What I'm saying is that because we see these pictures where it APPEARS that some are being forced into sex acts.....doesn't mean that's what really happened. They could have been staged to humiliate them. If they were or weren't....doesn't make either acceptable....but to jump to the conclusion that they were FOR SURE force to have sex....that hasn't been proven yet. No have the other incidences that we haven't see proof of.
Re-elect President Bush!!
posted on May 8, 2004 05:51:28 PM new
Linda - do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound playing this word game when Military officals who have seen the photos state that they involve rape?
You are really going to sit at home behind your keyboard and defend a position that even the administration admits is indefensible? How do you do that? Do you just selectively dismiss anything that does not fit into your comfort level no matter the source?
Is the defense department lying? Are republican senators and even Rumsfeld himself lying?
And do I get answers to the other two questions?
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on May 8, 2004 05:55 PM ]
posted on May 8, 2004 05:56:44 PM new
Iraq is NOT the US, quit trying to take some of our liberties and rights and apply them there... you don't seem to have trouble stating that on other topics...
posted on May 8, 2004 06:10:46 PM new
Twelve - in all seriousness - what is allowed. I admit to some confusion on your views. You state very clearly that you were offended by the pictures and the reports but then you also kind of dismiss it by saying that they were prisoners. So what is allowed? I'm assuming that whatever you consider to be allowed as treatment of a prisoner is something that is allowed by both sides and I have a funny feeling that you would be calling for carpet bombing if those pictures were of US servicemen so I am having a problem understanding why you use the "they were prisoners" justification arguement.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on May 8, 2004 06:30:19 PM new
I'M NOT SCREAMING....JUST DIDN'T WANT TO MESS WITH ALL THE AND S
* The overwhelming majority of inmates at the Abu Ghriab prison:
None of which means what has been going on there is right. NO ONE SAID IT WAS. Our soldiers have been attacking Iraqi fighters--are you saying that it would be OK for them to be treated this way if they were captured?!? NOPE I'M NOT SAYING THAT, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE USUALLY TREATED MUCH WORSE THAT THAT.
*The photographs of prisoners being abused were taken at a cellblock:
I see. So that makes what was done to them all right? AGAIN....WHO SAID THAT?
*To date, there's no evidence whatsoever:
Simply untrue, as the military's own report shows. WHAT REPORT ARE YOU REFERRING TO? AS I SAID I DIDN'T HEAR RUMSFELD'S FULL TESTIMONY...ALL I HEARD WERE ABOUT THE PICTURES SHOWN....NOTHING ELSE. In any case, even those who weren't beaten and worse, should never have been treated in that matter. Would it be OK for captured US soldiers to be treated that way? I HOPE YOU'RE NOT SO NAIVE TO THINK THAT MOST OF THE WORLD ESPECIALLY ONES IN THE M.E. FOLLOW THE GENEVA CONVENTION RULES. DO YOU THINK SADDAM WAS FOLLOWING THOSE RULES? TOR MAYBE YOU COULD TELL ME OF ANY M.E. LEADER WHO'S FOLLOWED THOSE RULES....THAT'S THE POINT. I THINK THE ACTIONS OF THE US MILITARY PLAYING BY THE RULES A LOT MORE THAN THE ME COUNTRIES DO. BUT HEY....ONCE AGAIN WE'RE ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT 6-7 PEOPLE AT THIS TIME. NOT THE WHOLE MILITARY.
*At least two of the abused prisoners have embarked on a whirlwind tour:
Why shouldn't they speak out to whoever will listen? LOL - IT'S NOT A MATTER THAT THEY SHOULDN'T SPEAK OUT...BUT RATHER THAN MAYBE, JUST MAYBE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING MIGHT BE NOT TAKEN AS THE TRUTH, AS SOME HERE DO SO QUICKLY, iT MIGHT BE QUESTIONED THAT THEY HAVE A MOTIVE TO SAY THOSE THINGS...AGAINST OUR OWN MILITARY/GOVERNMENT. KIND OF LIKE REAMONDS STATEMENT SAYING ALZJEEREA IS MORE BELIEVABLE THAN WE ARE. SO QUICK TO BELIEVE ANYTHING THAT'S NEGATIVE ABOUT THEIR OWN COUNTRY....BUT WILL BUY AS GOSPEL TRUTH ANYTHING SAID ABOUT US BY OUR ENEMIES.
*None of the photos released to the media so far show anything like what has been alleged in anti-Bush administration media reports:
The key words are "so far." THAT'S RIGHT....THE POINT THAT WAS BEING MADE ALL SORTS OF ALLEGATIONS WITH NO BACK UP...NO PROOF. Because before the photos we have seen came out, no one would have believed even that much could have been done by US soldiers, would they? SURE THEY WOULD...THERE'S PEOPLE GULLIBLE ENOUGH TO BELIEVE ANYTHING...HATEFUL ENOUGH TO BELIEVE ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT THE US. JUST LOOK TO SKYLITE FOR A GREAT EXAMPLE. THE ENEMY BEING INTERROGATED IS NOT A FUN TIME. I THINK MOST KNOW THAT....AND ACCEPT THAT IS PART OF HOW WE AND OTHERS GET INFORMATION FROM OUR ENEMIES....ESPECIALLY IN WAR TIME. ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY'RE TREATED LIKE FRIEND/FAMILY DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE.
*The murder charges: Two allegations of murder have been reported so fAR:
Deaths can happen during riots and with so few guards for so many prisoners, one can see where deadly force might have to be used to quell an uprising. Though it was not intelligent of the one soldier mentioned to touch off the uprising by taunting inmates after one of their fellows was subdued after striking a guard. WHY ARE THEIR ACTIONS NEVER WRONG....THEY'RE JUST BEING PLAYFUL WITH OUR SOLDIERS. AND THAT SOLDIER HAS PAID THE PRICE FOR HIS CHOICE OF ACTION. THAT'S ALSO THE POINT. NO ONE IS GETTING AWAY WITH THIS BEHAVIOR.
*The other charge of murder refers to an Iraqi detainee who reportedly died after being grilled by a CIA interrogator:
Doesn't matter what info he was holding or what provocation. Killing the person you're interrogating is just plain wrong & makes one question what methods were being used. And how would we react if our soldiers were interrogated this way? OH....LIKE THEY'RE NOT. SOMETIME PEOPLE DIE....FOR MANY REASONS....IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY KILLED HIM INTENTIONALLY. HE COULD HAVE HAD A HEARTATTACK...FROM FEAR...LACK OF SLEEP ANYBODIES GUESS. AGAIN....WE DON'T HAVE THE FACTS BUT THAT DOESN'T KEEP OTHERS FROM DRAWING ALL SORTS OF CONCLUSIONS OF THEIR OWN....NO MATTER HOW MISINFORMED THEY COULD BE.
*It's worth reminding Americans about the case of Col. Alan West:
I will be interested to hear what our response is to other countries "bending the rules of the Geneva convention." IF THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES EVEN FOLLOW THE GENEVA CONVENTION AT ALL. I DOUBT YOU COULD SHOW US WHERE ANY ME COUNTRIES HAVE EARNED A REPUTATION FOR FOLLOWING THE GENEVA CONVENTION RULES. AND THE RULE WAS BENT....HE WAS NOT CHARGED....BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CAN SEE THAT HIS ACTIONS DID NOT INJURE THE ENEMY....JUST FRIGHTENED HIM ENOUGH TO GIVE UP THE VERY NEED INFORMATION. WAR ISN'T A COURT ROOM WHERE EVERYTHING'S ALL NICE AND TIDY. BUT IT WAS EFFECTIVE IN MAKING HIM TALK AND THEN SAVED HIS SOLDIERS LIVES.
*It's also worth reminding Americans about the circumstances of the death of CIA interrogator Johnny 'Mike' Spann:
Repeat after me: Afghanistan is not Iraq. Al Qaida has nothing to do with Iraq. Because something happens in Afghanistan, we do not make reprisals in Iraq. THAT DOESN'T MATTER...:".WHERE" IS NOT THE POINT NOR WHAT'S IMPORTANT. THE POINT WAS TO SHOW HOW OTHERS HANDLE THE GENEVA CONVENTION RULES.
*The only rape reported in any detail so far was allegedly committed by an Iraqi jail guard:
Perhaps--but the guy was operating under our watch, making it our responsibility. WHAT YOU ARE CHOOSING TO IGNORE...IS IT WASN'T OUR MILITARY SOLDIER. NO ONES EXCUSING IT....JUST POINTING OUR WHEN THE LEFT IS TRYING TO BLAME THIS ALL ON AMERICAN SOLDIERS. I'M SURE YOU WANT ALL THE FACTS...LOL...NOT BE LEAD TO BELIEVE SOMETHING IS TRUE WHEN IT'S NOT.
*The Taguba report includes an allegation of sodomy with a broomstick.
Actually, several detainees and "other witnesses" is what the report says. AGAIN, ARE THESE ALLEGATIONS YOU'RE SPEAKING OF....OR HAS IT BEEN PROVEN?
To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge:
Ah, there's that "to date" --akin to "so far." Well, the report was made months ago, and no pictures were seen--by the public, anyway--until a couple of weeks ago. I guess up to that point Rumsfield & Bush were saying the report couldn't be true because "To date, no photographs have emerged to substantiate the charge, no eyewitnesses have gone public to corroborate the charge and no U.S. soldiers have confessed to committing the crime." AND ACCORDING TO RUMSFELD...NOT SEEN BY HIM EITHER UNTIL A FEW DAYS AGO...THEY HADN'T MADE IT TO HIS LEVEL YET. HOW SAD YOU ARE ONE OF MANY THAT ARE SO QUICK TO PLACE BLAME EVEN ON THINGS THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED....YOU DON'T NEED ANY PROOF OR TO WAIT TO SEE IF ANY EVER SHOWS UP.....YOU HAVE YOUR ACCUSATIONS.
One wonders what prison inmates in America:
If they'd been treated like those prisoner have, you can bet they'd say they had been. THEY'D SAY THEY HAD BEEN EVEN IF THEY HADN'T BEEN. THEY'RE NOT IN THERE BECAUSE THEY'RE THE BEST EXAMPLES OF OUR SOCIETY. AGAIN...SO QUICK TO ACCEPT THE ENEMIES/CRIMINALS VERSION WITHOUT ANY PROOF....AGAINST THE SOLDIERS WHO SERVE OUR COUNTRY.
*For some of the more partisan Democrats currently calling for Rumsfeld's head, the Bush administration would do well to remind the country that more innocents died at Waco than at Abu Ghriab - and nobody from the Clinton administration resigned back then:
Oh, please. You must have one of the shortest memories on record. There was a huge groundswell of protest and outrage over Waco. People called for Janet Reno's dismissal or resignation. THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. THEY'RE REMINDING READERS THAT NO ONE RESIGNED OVER THAT TRAGETY.....AND TO SAY RUMSFELD DOESN'T NEED TO RESIGN OVER THIS EITHER. JUST THOSE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THESE ABUSES. THE ONES THAT CONDONED THESE ACTIONS.
The most problematic allegation by far is that GIs charged with committing the abuse were ordered to do so by military intelligence to "soften-up" detainees in advance of interrogations.
You know, our country didn't buy the "I was simply following orders" defense when dealing with abuse dealt out by German guards during World War II. Not just the Nazi Party members or elite SS troops, but the run-of-the-mill German army guard. And the German populace in general. We haven't bought that defense from anybody else, either. I'LL REPEAT WHAT TWELVEPOLE HAS STATED MANY TIMES ON THESE BOARDS.....THE SOLDIERS KNOW THEY CAN GO AGAINST ORDERS WHEN THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO DO ANYTHING AGAINST MILITARY POLICY. SOMETIMES THINGS ARE TAKEN TOO FAR....BUT WHEN INTERROGATING OUR ENEMIES IN WAR TIME...THINGS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE PLAYING PATTY CAKE. THE REPORTS OF WATER BEING POURED ON THEM...BEING KEPT FROM SLEEPING...MADE TO STAND INSTEAD OF SITTING....THESE ARE NOT FORBIDDEN NOR ARE OTHER WAYS TO INTERROGATE.
Claiming that 9-11 and the "war on terror" justifies our military acting in this manner is also a crock of #*!@. AGAIN....BLOWING THE ACTIONS OF A VERY FEW TOTALLY OUT OF PROPORTION. NO PERSPECTIVE. PARTISAN POLITICS....AT IT'S BEST.
