posted on August 29, 2000 08:48:50 AM new
I just cancelled 2 bids placed on my auctions by the same person.
They have a feedback rating of 8, and 2 negs. Their negs are for (1) non-payment and (2) leaving negs for no reason.
I looked at the feedback they've LEFT others... and both say "Paid but never received, want a refund". And this was for 2 different sellers.
When I cancelled their bids I said this:
Explanation: Looking at feedback they've rec'd & left, I do not feel comfortable selling to.
I emailed them a letter explaining that I cancelled their bids, and why, and that the email was being CC'd to SafeHarbor and that they would be notified if they continue to bid on my items.
Now, if they continue to bid on my items, will SafeHarbor do something about this?
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on August 29, 2000 08:53:18 AM new
As long as you mention in your Email (with CC to Safe Harbour), that you do not want them to bid on your auctions again, yes, Safeharbour will put their name in a data base, per your instructions...Should these people bid, you must immediately cancel the bid and contact SafeHarbor, giving them the infor (Name of bidder, auction No. etc...) At that point, bidder can be suspended indefinately.
The key is to ASK THEM TO NOT BID AGAIN. Otherwise, SafeHarbour won't know what your Email means..
******************** Shosh http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
Thank you! I *DID* ask them to STOP bidding on my items. A few minutes ago, they just placed their bids on my 2 auctions *AGAIN*!!! I'm not happy and am notifying SafeHarbor again.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:04:34 AM new
valerie, you worry and look into things too deeply sometimes and worry when something is just not perfect and complian endlessly of bad buyer situations.
Well what you did in my book was wrong. Every single customer should be treated fair and respectful by you until they have done wrong by you.
2 negs and right away you jump on what someone else has to say.
You were the Judge, Jury and sentencing commitee all on this one person. The only reason for this is you got worried a little bit. You could very well have been the next positive response that this person got.
Now, things may have gone completely haywire and you may not have received payment or what ever from this person. But the fact is, you never gave them a chance, you only got one side of the story. How do you know this person did not get scammed by someone and actually never got their merchandise? Well you dont and you convicted this person without ever commiting a crime.
You should have accepted the bid and had they won, you could have said something in your letter such as "I noticed you have had a cuople bad transactions in the past. I would like to make this one a smooth and pleasant one for you. Could you please provide payment within my specified period and I will make sure everything runs smooth on my end"
You could then have done a DC to make sure this person did indeed get the item and I believe things would have turned out a lot better.
Right now you are running around trying to convict this person further by getting safeharbor involved for something you think might happen.
Well if you had done that to me, i would have no interest in biddin on one of your items again.
Quit judging people prematurly, you are supposed to be running a business and this should never have been a lecture. There are too many problems without creating ones needlessly.
edited as I really shouldnt have said it, sorry about that first sentence Valerie.
[ edited by snapsnert on Aug 29, 2000 11:28 AM ]
posted on August 29, 2000 09:04:49 AM newvalerie
Ebay has a rule that sellers do not have to sell to anyone they feel uncomfortable selling to. You did everything right. Contact safe harbor (or time sensitive support) - cancel the bids yet again and send emails again telling them in clear language you do NOT want them bidding on your auctions period.
Thank goodness for transactional feedback only - here is a great example of the kind of situation that would have led to them committing feedback abuse if they could.
Good luck!
affirmation comes from within ...
not at the expense of another.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:09:15 AM newvalerie
I also have a notation in my auctions that is a buyer has excessive negative feedback (and I consider 2 out of 8 excessive) to PLEASE email with with an explanation prior to bidding. It helps me judge the situationbetter.
You were well within your rights (according to ebay guidelines) to cancel.
On my above post where I wrote that this situation would have led to feedback abuse - it should have read could have. (clarification)
posted on August 29, 2000 09:17:40 AM new
snapsnert:
I have every right to cancel any bids I feel uncomfortable with. I have over 3000+ feedbacks and I have only cancelled about 5 bidders that I felt uncomfortable selling to in the 2 1/2+ years I've been selling on ebay. If you feel comfortable selling to people like that, then more power to you. I hope they bid on YOUR items!
Well if you had done that to me, i would have no interest in biddin on one of your items again.
Uhhh.. that's the whole point here.... I wouldn't WANT your bids!
After I asked these people to NOT bid on my items again, they *DID*. They didn't respond to my email, they just re-bid. Which tells me my instincts were right about these people.
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:28:30 AM new
I'm having a real problem with these bidders! They just bid on 2 MORE of my auctions! (That's a total of 4 auctions since I've asked them NOT to bid on my auctions anymore!) I've written again to Safeharbor and [email protected].
I'm now afraid they are going to keep bidding, or bid at the last minute in an attempt to leave me NEGS like they have with other sellers who they never paid.
Too bad ebay doesn't have a blacklist like Yahoo does so you can actually STOP people from bidding! This would be most handy right now!
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on August 29, 2000 09:40:21 AM new
Say what snapsnert?
Why would someone with any intelligence at all continue to bid on Valerie's auction after she has asked them not to?? She is well within her rights to say "I don't accept bids from anyone with an 'a' in their name on Tuesdays". Her reason would be just as valid.
I had a similar experience, only in my case, it ended up costing me a sale, and very likely the listing and selling fees. A person kept bidding in spite of my TOS that she could not meet, in spite of me canceling her bids twice (which takes my time to do), and in spite of some very polite emails from me asking her nicely not to bid anymore. She bid a 3rd time using some crazy price and scared all the other bidders away. She 'won' the auction then disappeared when it came time to pay ... exactly like like she did with 3 others who negged her for doing the same thing to them. Now I am forced to wait for the eBay listing and selling credits, which is costing me more time, money, and aggravation, and which, after jumping through all the eBay hoops, I will probably never get.
I still have the unsold item ...
And, the 2 negs on Val's bidder? Maybe not bad if the bidder has a few hundred positives, or even a few dozen positives. But 2 out of 8? That works out to 25% using my math - not very good odds.
Is this being paranoid, or just protecting yourself? (Even is she is paranoid, this has NOTHING to do with being schizo, btw) If your doc told you you're chances of surviving that new, untested drug were 75%, but if you used the 'tried-and-true' drug, your chances would increase to 99%, which one would you chose?
posted on August 29, 2000 09:51:26 AM new
well with that still doesnt affect the fact you convicted this person without them ever commiting a crime to you.
Maybe now they are upset with you and are going to continue there venture just to get you upset as you upset them with the only reason being "you felt uncomfortable".
The facts are this. Ebay gives you the guidlines to cancel bids on a auction.
You have taken those guidlines and used them to convict users who you alone are judging. Why did you not ask the 8 bidders this person had good transactions with how things went? I will tell you the reason, you wanted to make this look like a bad situation and tell this person he was NO GOOD or whatever. And your way to do this was to cancel his bids without having any FACTS OR BASIS for this and this was proven by his having 8 good transactions and 2 bad ones.
YOU alone have now created this into a BAD situation, sort of a ebay BIDRAGE, something very similiar to ROAD RAGE. You got after this bidder and now they want to get back after you.
Had you not cancelled the bids, it is quite possible NONE of this would have happened. If the person indeed was bad blood, well then ebay has appropriate steps to take in getting your listing and selling fees back. You choose NOT to give the advantage and cancel feedback.
I am not saying this bidder was legit or not and it appears now you will never know as the only choice you created for yourself was to BANISH someone because you felt uncomfortable.
over 3000 feedbacks, if I was a buyer and saw that I would be thinking, "hey, here is someone I can trust, I got taken by those 2 sellers but this one looks legit"
Instead you think this gives you some ungodly power to judge prematurly. At this point you are upset, the bidder is upset and no one will win. But you will continue to use those ungodly powers to prove you can win.
I say, well he bid on the items, now he is committed to them. If he is high bidder make him pay and do not place feedback untill you have recieved it from him. if he decides to Neg you, well you know as well as I do that 1 neg does not mean anything. Or do you want others to say, hey, she got a neg, I think I will cancel her bid.
Cower in the corner because you are uncomfortable, round up as much support as possible to try and say you were right. Fact is, you convicted. Right or wrong, you prejudged without getting all the facts.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:02:52 AM new
snapsnert...using your logic, then juries can only be made up of people who have been personally wronged by a defendant. While I think that may be a good thing sometimes, in this case, valerie47 looked at the evidence quite visible in the Buyer's feedback and decided they did not want to possibly be another victim. They are well within their rights to cancel bids if they feel uncomfortable with any of pre-closing transaction. In fact, I wish more Sellers would pay attention to the Buyer's feedbacks. It may cut down on deadbeats who bid for sport.
Had the Buyer not had 25% negative FB (and not left 100% negative FB), then there would be no reason for cancellation.
*********************
spellink
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
[ edited by njrazd on Aug 29, 2000 10:03 AM ]
posted on August 29, 2000 10:10:10 AM new
I don't blame you valerie47 at all for your decision. In my personal experience, when a bidder has feedback that low with a couple of negatives already, I never see the money either.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:12:23 AM new
RB, if the item was that great, why do you still have it if that many other bidders wanted it? Since that person put in a outrageous bid and you took the right routes, why did you not sell it to the second high bidder if it was at such a great price as Ebay policy allows that.
The bidder you had could only have put in a high price that others would have known about only if there was a second bidder who was also willing to pay that price.
Sounds like you sort of created BID RAGE with the person you dealt with as well.
If you had any doubts at all you should have been filing the NPB alert after 10 days and then got your money refunded after 20 days. ad not allowed any more bids by this person.
You would have had just one single transaction to worry about and been done with it. I hardly think the person would have come back and tried to bid again after getting Neg feedback from you, I think the situation would have been over.
I do not know enough about this person to know why they have a 80% good rating and 20% bad rating. How do you know the person did not get scammed by those 2 sellers? it is unlikely but it can happen. and why were 80% of the sellers happy?
Just seemed like making a quick conclusion of someones life with them only making 10 transactions.
I dont ever see a need to cancel someones bids unless you can justify upfront that it is CLEAR FRAUD. And in this case you could not justify that and is shown by a 80% approval rating.
Last I checked, only 65% of the people think the president is doing a good job. Guess we should prevent him from buying on ebay.
I check the feedback of every single bidder who bids on my items. *Especially* those with very low feedback ratings.
I sell hundreds of items per week, and every week I have about 10+ deadbeats who I have to request NPB, FVF credits on and leave feedbacks for. About 99% of those deadbeats have very low feedback (less than 25).
____________________________________
The only place you'll find success before work is in the dictionary.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:25:31 AM new
Edhdsn...I learned the hard way to ALWAYS check the FB. I had an auction go bad with a bidder whose FB was nearly 100. The problem was that they had come unhinged within the previous few weeks and had begun spree bidding and not paying or paying very slowly. I was out several hundred dollars and much time and aggravation. By the time I checked, they had been NARUed. But they were back six months later and bidding again...on another of my auctions!
Kathy
posted on August 29, 2000 10:27:07 AM new
bottom line ... Valerie was well within her rights per ebay rules to cancel the bids. It was HER decision to make on what she felt comfortable with.
These bidders have a lot of nerve to keep bidding. Valerie HAS followed the rules and they HAVE NOT. Which only proves she has very good instincts.
I have no problem with a seller cancelling bids for a good reason and this IMHO WAS a good reason. That is what the feedback system is all about. It is there to assist buyers AND sellers.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:29:18 AM new
mrpotatohead, in reponse to asking if the bidder had no responsiblity it is just the opposite.
The bidder has made a bid on a item. That bid is a contract that you will buy the said item for the said price.
If the bidder fails to follow through then action needs to be taken.
If it is a CLEAR CASE of FRAUD, then action needs to be taken.
All I am saying is that it sounds to me like the bidder was never given the chance to fullfill his obligation in this matter. His bids were cancelled before given that chance.
Maybe he was a deadbeat but with 8 out of 10 saying he was not one, he was not given the chance to prove himself right or wrong in this case.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:38:07 AM newmrpotatohead, in reponse to asking if the bidder had no responsiblity it is just the opposite.
Well, there you go- the bidder was notified by the seller that he was not welcome to bid on this item, and he continued bidding. Just who is acting irresponsibly in this situation?
For better or worse, the seller has the right to cancel a bid. If this bidder is not happy with this, maybe the time to think about it was before he performed in such a manner as to accumulate the feedback he has. If he intends to act responsibly, how about emailing the seller regarding this matter and explaining the reason for his apparently poor feedback record rather than violating eBay's rules by continuing to bid?
posted on August 29, 2000 10:43:43 AM new
Hmmmm...I smell one of two things here. Either a troll or someone who has done very little if any selling on eBay. "Eight out of ten" just doesn't cut it. Two negs within your first ten feedbacks is a red flag for sure.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:43:56 AM new
valerie47:
I feel you have a right to conduct business on ebay anyway you want to within the rules. Problem is the rules have changed so often, and misunderstandings happen. In my four years on ebay I have seen a lot.
I now live with my one rule. Cause no harm. I never remove a bid. It hurts me. I never leave bad feed back unless fraud is involved. It hurts me. For example. You now have a high bidder that thinks they have been out bid, ebay told them!
Ebay has not told them that they are now high bidder.
Your auction is now tainted, as many bidders will think that shill bidding is going on. They saw it at a higher price now it has dropped, trust is gone.
posted on August 29, 2000 10:51:27 AM new
snapsnert --- Let's say you list an item that you want to get $20.00 out of. An honest bidder comes along and places a bid for $10.00, then a bogus bidder places one for $20.00. The first bidder, really wanting the item, bids again at $25.00. A bidding war results and after 37 bids from different bidders, it's up to $300.00. You're feeling pretty good at this point - an hour to go and you're going to be rich.
But, the bogus bidder decides to pull the first $20.00 bid. Everything that occurred after that is null and void - your 'real' high bidder, the one that you are obligated to sell to, gets your item for $10.00!
In my case it was a little different. The bidding war near the end was between two bidders - the one who I had previously asked not to bid due to her FB (3 out of 10 bad, or 30%), and the other one who really wanted the item. I was in the hospital caring for my sick son when this end activity was happening so I could not manually cancel the bogus bids like I had done with the first two. The phoney high bid ended at $330.00, the honest bid ended at $324.00. The bogus bidder ingored my emails for payment, until finally I negged her. That got a response, including an admission that the personal info she provided to eBay was also bogus. Even though I know I will not get paid for this item, according to eBay policy, I have to wait for credits.
I did contact the honest bidder after the bogus bidder confirmed that she was not going to complete the auction. She was very peeved that she did not win the item, suspected something was afoul, and very politely and honestly told me she could not commit to her bid of $324.00 as she had already 'spent' that money on other auctions (figuring she had honestly lost mine).
Now, this may not be exactly the same situation that Valerie is going through, but, it does lend credence to the theory that bidders with a high ratio of negative feedback can probably not be trusted. Again, why should I trade a bird in the hand for one in the bush?
I think I can understand what you are saying, but here we are not talking about sending an adult to prision because he did a little shoplifting when he was a child - the so-called "human rights" stuff just doesn't fit this discussion.
If this happens to you, I think you'll understand. You may be interested to know that I listed a similar item 2 days ago. Guess who's bidding? Rather than go through this again, I canceled the auction
In the meantime, I don't think your view is going to get much support here so you may as well go on to other things ...
PS - I could care less about the President's rating - I AM CANADIAN
Another PS - That eBay verbal contract about the bidder having to pay isn't worth the paper it's written on ...
posted on August 29, 2000 11:02:25 AM new
Hi, Valerie:
Good luck on this one! What would make me more nervous than the first two auctions is the fact that they are now bidding on more of your auctions. I hope Safeharbor can do something before they ruin all your auctions.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:05:42 AM new
Mrpotatohead, I agree, there should have been communication on the buyers part.
At this point the bids placed by the buyer need to be cancelled as Valerie asked the bidder not to bid and sent in a email to safe harbor as well.
If the buyer really wanted the items they should have replied with an explanation of themselves. And in this case it did not happen and I believe the person is bidding as a vengefull act.
I just think emailing the bidder ahead of time and finding out the situation would have been a whole lot better and prevented this from happening. Had the bidder not responded then action could have been taken.
I think this buyer at this point is truly upset and placing bids in retalition as Valerie mentions.
As I said in previous posts, the retaliation and BID RAGE got caused when the bids got cancelled. I think it take just one more neg and this person will be suspended anyway if they are all in certain time frame.
Maybe a email PRIOR to cancelling the bids would have been better than the other way around and not caused this person to act in a unprofessional way. One saying I would like a chance for you to explain your negative feedback, if you have not done this to my satisfaction then I will cancel your bids.
Ebay gives Valerie the right to cancel bids and this is given to sellers as it may be needed. And as others have pointed out they have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
Well when someone takes away your rights for whatever reason it is a natural response to get upset. It is obvious that this bidder has choosen to make more work for Valerie by forcing her to cancel many more bids.
It is all our rights to cancel bids, I just think that you would ask for a response from the person before cancelling them.
the way I saw it is Valerie cancelled the bids, said I dont want you to bid on any more of my items as I do not feel comfortable. I would have emailed first, gave them a chance and then cancelled.
I think Valerie has a valid point that the bidder is now just going to wait till last second and bid on some items. I think she upset him and this is his way to get back. AND BY NO WAY DO I THINK IT SHOULD BE TOLERATED. At this point ebay should not allow any more bids on her items by this seller and should not allow feedback to be posted by this person if they are the high bidder.
I dont hate you Valerie and have no animosity towards you at all. You wanted to know what to do and I was probably out of line saying schiztophranic or paranoid and apologize for that. I do think you worry too much sometimes and the only way to get bad buyers off ebay is to Neg them after a bad transaction and then have ebay suspend them.
i wish you luck in this as I try to avoid things like this happening to me. It has before but luckily I got my money back, was able to sell to the second bidder and the other person got suspended due to numberous feedbacks.
Looking back is easy to do and I would have handled it a whole lot differently is all.
posted on August 29, 2000 11:11:57 AM new
snapsnert:
Good points. However if ebay would be proactive on this issue like Yahoo, over there one click and this bidder is banned from bidding on all of my auctions, this would not be a problem if ebay gave us that feature. Ed
edhdsn
posted on August 29, 2000 03:25:47 PM new
Im having the same problem with a bidder. But, when I tried to email them to say STOP and DONT BID, the email was undeliverable because the person in question is not a registered user with AOL. So I removed the bid. Then they went in with a different user name, but with the same email addy and BID AGAIN. I contacted ebay twice. All I can do now is keep watching and hope they dont do it a third time.
Ebay DOES need to have a feature like Yahoo. Would save alot of grief.
