posted on August 29, 2000 03:25:25 PM new
Shipping is the price the seller charges the buyer to get the product into the buyer's hands....postage is the amount that is paid to the post office. They are not necessarily the same thing.
At one time there were lots and lots of threads here at AW complaining about sellers who did not list shipping charges in the ad, springing high shipping charges after the fact. General concensus was that if the amount was stated in the auction then the buyer was aware of the charges and could opt-out if they felt the charges were to high.
From recent threads it looks like a lot of sellers are now putting the shipping charges up front, in the ad so the buyer is fully informed...and now the buyer wants to complain because the POSTAGE was less than the shipping charge!
The seller was up front with the shipping charge. The buyer made an assumption that was proven incorrect and now wants to blame the seller. The buyer bears full responsibility for her own unhappiness here. If she wanted to pay actual postage she shouldn't have assumed anythiong..she should have asked. The responsibility to be an informed buyer rested squarely on her own shoulders..she just got lazy and took the easy way out..she ASSUMED and now wants to punish the seller for her own lack of action.
If the auction doesn't list the shipping charge...ask!
If the auction doesn't mention the method of shipping and it's important to you...ask!
If the auction doesn't mention a handling fee and it's important to you...ask!
If you shop GOING, GOING, GONE and there is no time to ask questions to clarify something, don't ASSUME...just don't bid!
posted on August 29, 2000 03:27:25 PM newThe seller is right, the buyer is wrong. Black and white. Clear cut. Open and shut case.
I still believe the seller was intentionally listing $3.20 as the shipping in hopes of getting the extra change via using the same fee that priority shipping would have cost. I even got a kick out the the seller's comments to some feedback on that practice earlier calling the buyer "Cheap". LOL
If it's a clear cut, open and shut case I'd image the moderator would shut the thread then. If the thread isn't shut down then it isn't a 'shut case'.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:27:44 PM new
What is clear cut here, open and shut, black and white is that the seller engages in the practice of gouging his bidders. It is dishonest. The bidder paid $3.20 for shipping per the seller TOS. That is not what the bidder got. What's so hard to understand about that? This is about fee avoidance and gouging.
Someone let me know before the seller becomes unconscious. Wouldn't want to take this "browbeating" too far.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:30:33 PM new
Thank you, Amy! Great post.
You have a great deal of understanding about the way these things work, including calling it correctly about who would be posting to this thread, ripping apart this honest and upfront seller.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:31:49 PM newKatyD.I do not know you, nor would I want to know you. It has not been "awhile", it has been never. This is a chat room, not your 50th high school reunion.Consider All Your Posts IGNORED, IGNORED, IGNORED!
Gee, if you don't "know" me, how could you know if you don't want to know me? Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!
I am so tired over this type of seller bashing over 2 bucks.
Aprice was stated! I do nt care if it was $320.00 The bidder saw the cost bid on the item. The item was shipped as discribed, in a safe and timley manor.
I state my shipping cost in my auctions, and live and die with the cost. 99% of the time I am within .80, sometimes I am way off and I costs $5 or $6 more due to double boxing needs misjudging weight ect.
I have a great relationship at my post office, and sometimes they will tell me not to mail an item Prioty, as they live in the stste, and they will get the item just as fast.
My contract to the seller is to get them the item in great condition, on time for the price stated. It's up to me on how I do it! Mail, UPS, Fed Ex, or jump on an airplane and deliver in person.
Want to take a tax deductiable vaction? Limit your auction to the area you want to go. State you will deliver in person for a cost of $6.00 and have fun. Only Airfare and the cost of one night in a hotel is a tax deduction.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:34:20 PM newShipping is the price the seller charges the buyer to get the product into the buyer's hands
Says who? Where is that posted in black and white. On Ebay somewhere? Or is it just "your opinion". Shipping is shipping. Handling is handling. Gouging is gouging.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:35:14 PM new
I don't know about every other honest seller
out there, but I cringe when I see I accidentaly overcharged a bidder .50 cents let along $2.43! When I say shipping of $3.20, that's what the cost of shipping the item is, period, end of discussion, for me anyway.
I've been a buyer too, and get really irked when they say $3.20 for shipping and they only used less than a dollar to ship it! What do they think, we can't read the postal stamp or something?
posted on August 29, 2000 03:37:48 PM new
Chisolm, baby, it's bait and switch.
Amy, you are right, but you know that a lot of bidders don't do that, a lot aren't savvy to asking how an item is going to be shipped.
I think sellers should be frank about how it is shipped then list what s/h costs. If you can keep it low by factoring into the final bid, great!
I would rather do than make a bidder feel like they have been ripped on shipping.
Now Chisolm, why wasn't your shipping cost a flat $2 or $4?
Come on! We know the $3.20 is easy to get out of a bidder because they think that it will ship that way!
posted on August 29, 2000 03:38:12 PM newThe seller was up front with the shipping charge. The buyer made an assumption that was proven incorrect and now wants to blame the seller. The buyer bears full responsibility for her own unhappiness here
posted on August 29, 2000 03:40:35 PM new
Well, once the blood clears from the water maybe there is something to be learned here:
Sellers: If you are going to ship priority, then say so. It will be a plus for you because people reading these threads (or who have had a similar situation) will be looking for the word priority.
Buyers: Never assume. Never. When in doubt, ask or move on.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:42:08 PM new
KatyD..from what has been posted, the seller DID NOT say actual postage, he said SHIPPING. Shipping is the amount that he is charging to get the item into the buyer's hands. His charge was $3.20. For that $3.20 he packaged the item, took it to the post office and mailed it. A few days later the buyer received the item, in the condition described in the auction. The buyer got exactly what was paid for..a beanie shipped to her home.
If the buyer wanted priority mailing she should have negotiated that BEFORE she bid. If the buyer felt the term "shipping" was ambiguous she should has an obligation to ask questions and get the ambiguity cleared up BEFORE she bid. No ifs, ands or buts about it!
How sad..here is a seller who is being up front with his bidders, letting them know beforehand what he charges for shipping and some lazy buyer wants to besmearch his reputation because she wouldn't take responsibility for herself.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:43:22 PM newI am so tired over this type of seller bashing over 2 bucks.
I seem to remember many of the *same* posters here *itching over the famous "a dollar's a dollar" line when ebay started its' reserve auction fee. Guess it's all relative to who is being "gouged" for what, eh?
posted on August 29, 2000 03:48:30 PM new
So you're not ignoring me after all, eh Ro...errr..Chisholm? Oh, I don't think I would do anything with you in the backseat. You're not my type, and much too old for me.
Amy, you are playing on semantics. Where are you getting your definition of "shipping"? It's ridiculous! If he wanted to gouge for "handling" all he had to do was state it in his TOS. That would be one thing. This is something else altogether. And the sad thing, is that you know it.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:51:12 PM new
Amy, Amy, Amy!!!
If the buyer wanted priority mailing she should have negotiated that BEFORE she bid. If the buyer felt the term "shipping" was ambiguous she should has an obligation to ask questions and get the ambiguity cleared up BEFORE she bid. No ifs, ands or buts about it!
Right you are, Amy! There can be NO negotiation AFTER the end of the auction. Heck, there can be no negotiation after a bid is placed.
How sad..here is a seller who is being up front with his bidders, letting them know beforehand what he charges for shipping and some lazy buyer wants to besmearch his reputation because she wouldn't take responsibility for herself.
Right, again, Amy! Lazy bidders with strange attitudes about value! An item does not change it's total dollar value because of the shipping METHOD. The contract was for one stupid beanie baby delevered safely to the buyer for $4.70. The seller was honest and upfront. The bidder is the problem here.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:53:49 PM new
KatyD:
Shipping charges are shipping charges. IE my cost to ship. Thay could be the cost of boxes, popcorn ect, not just the cost of mailing, also there are hidden mailing costs, that are not on the stamp.
Also some of the disabled sellers on ebay have the items picked up from thier home, at a cost of $8.50 or so per pick up. These charges are not shown on the stamp. In my eyes this is not a handling charge. And it is not something they need to disclose. Just state the charge, and if a bidder wants to bid the charge is there. Pay it, or go on.
Mailing charges are different. Also my auctions state US only internationl bidders please contact me prior to bidding as these costs are much higher.
posted on August 29, 2000 03:54:39 PM new
While the seller's tactics on 'shipping charges' might be up for debate there's another item I'd like to broach. If the email exchange on the first post is accurate I'm going to go out on a limb and say the seller could do with a bit of education in 'customer relations'.
Does anyone care to defend the seller's email responses?
posted on August 29, 2000 04:00:16 PM new
Today had been a good day until I read this thread. It seems to be saying 'don't trust anyone', and 'if you think you can get away with it - go for it!'
So here's is what I've learned so far:
the only type of person scummier than a lawyer is an eBay seller.
posted on August 29, 2000 04:00:32 PM new
Oh yeah, Ed. And there were all kinds of "hidden costs" here, popcorn, box, yada,yada. It came in an envelope! No popcorn, no box. Gouging. Many "sellers" here want to defend this behavior and at the same time in other threads, kvetch and moan about the dearth of decent bids. Get a clue, folks! This is a big part of what is driving off bidders.
On the other hand, this could all be avoided if ebay would create a required shipping field that not only states actual costs, but method of shipping. Also need an "insurance" field, "handling" field, and oh, let's not forget the "gouging" field. Then we wouldn't have these "misunderstandings" would we?
KatyD
(spelling)
[ edited by KatyD on Aug 29, 2000 04:01 PM ]
I seem to remember many of the *same* posters here *itching over the famous "a
dollar's a dollar" line when ebay started its' reserve auction fee. Guess it's all
relative to who is being "gouged" for what, eh?
Not even close to a similar problem. That was a fee increase that we did not like. But we knew about it before we were charged, and complained.
We are discussing an issue called sour grapes. The contract by the seller was fulfiled. Could have had thier Anut Tilly drop the item off at no cost. I would still feel the same.
posted on August 29, 2000 04:06:36 PM new
The seller could have easily said $3.00 for shipping and then the "Priority" question would have been taken care of, since that is not enough for priority mail. However, by choosing the exact amount of $3.20, I do believe the seller was misleading. A shipping area on the auction page breaking down the charges would clear up some of the confusion.
The buyer did accept the amount though when she placed her bid, so she is responsible for the full amount.
***********************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
posted on August 29, 2000 04:07:05 PM new
I am wondering. If the seller had paid $5.00 to ship the item, would the buyer then go to the seller and say, "Hey you only charged me $3.20 for shipping, and it cost you $5.00, so do you want an extra $1.80 to cover your costs." Why is this only a one way street with buyers that they feel only justified in complaining when it appears that they are overcharged, and the seller is expected to eat any undercharges.
posted on August 29, 2000 04:08:01 PM new
Ed, Ed, Ed!
We are discussing an issue called sour grapes. The contract by the seller was fulfiled. Could have had thier Anut Tilly drop the item off at no cost. I would still feel the same.
posted on August 29, 2000 04:11:19 PM new
<i>The seller could have easily said $3.00 for shipping and then the "Priority" question would have been
taken care of, since that is not enough for priority mail. However, by choosing the exact amount of
$3.20, I do believe the seller was misleading.
posted on August 29, 2000 04:21:54 PM new
Uaru..no more than I want to defend the buyer's emails..both were far over the line of civility.
KatyD take the course business 101. It isn't semantics. Shipping is the cost of all overhead involved with sending an item to the buyer. It's the rent, water, electricity, vehicle acqisition cost, fuel for the vehicles, maintenance for the vehicles, insurance and tags for the vehicles, boxes, envelopes, tape, bubble wrap, peanuts, the furniture such as tables etc used to pack the item, employee wages or owner's time value depending on who is doing the packing, and the actual postage paid to the carrier.
Notice postage is just one of the items in "shipping".
There is also nothing illegal or immoral with making a profit on "shipping". A business is in business to MAKE A PROFIT. That is it's raison d'etre.
It is up to each business owner to decide how to make that profit. some will make it on the price of the item, making the price high enough to cover the total expenses of the business plus his profit margin and will give free shipping..which really isn't free.
Others will charge only for the actual shipping costs...while others will only charge the postage...and others will build a percent of his profit into the shipping charge.
You, as the buyer, decide how much you will pay for an item...what the FINAL cost you are willing to accept. And then you add the item cost to the shipping cost and decide if it meets your approval. If it doesn't ...move on, shop somewhere else!
Capriole...there is no way I, as a seller, can make my auction simple enough, plain enough, that some naive buyer doesn't misunderstand. I also can't be held accountable because a buyer is not savy enough to do something as basic as ask questions. If they don't know to ask questions to protect their own a** they don't belong in the ranks of ADULTS..they should be back in the nursery with the other children.
I will try to educate them when I can but I'm not going to worry about someone who hasn't a clue on how to perform the basic acts needed to protect their own self interests.
Oh, I don't think I would do anything with you in the backseat. You're not my type, and much too old for me.