posted on April 18, 2001 01:27:01 AM new
Why doesn't Ebay force all sellers to include the shipping cost on all there items(at least for the North America area). I am sure you have all heard this before, I win a bid and I am happy, then they send me some RIDICULOUS shipping charge!! I live in Canada, not the North Pole!!!!!!!!! I pratice what I preach, take a look at my site..all have shipping quotes, no mystery for the bidder
posted on April 18, 2001 04:43:00 AM new
I can't include shipping costs in my auctions because I sell magazines which are sent by Bound Printed Matter. They need the buyer's zip code in order to figure the shipping. Only way I could include shipping would be to include the cost for 8 postal zones plus Canada. Then the buyer would have to determine which zone he was in figured from my location to figure the shipping. Only way I could get around this would be to charge some fixed shipping charge based on shipping to zone 8, which then buyers would also be complaining about since the buyers in zones 1, 2 and 3 would be getting overcharged.
posted on April 18, 2001 04:58:02 AM new
zookoo ...
Even requiring the packed weight of the item would work. But for items that are too heavy for flat rate priority or do not qualify for media mail, a range of prices would have to do.
I think that "actual shipping agent charges" and "shipping agent charges plus handling fee of ____ " would be nice to see.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:00:03 AM new
Having just gotten burned this week with people who say that "buyer pays shipping" and no mention of handling fees that magically appear in their EOA......completely unreasonable ones, I might add, such as an extra $10.00 for shipping something in a recycled priority box, with smelly spongy material.......I would like to see ebay have selllers check off whether they charge a handling fee, instead of "buyer pays actual shipping". There is too much wiggle room with that, and allows sellers to lie by ommission by allowing them to come back at you and say that the handling charge was part of "buyer pays shipping". It would eliminate the need for buyers to have to e mail the seller that states "buyer pays shipping" and asking them to clarify whether or not that includes a handling charge and what that charge is.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:03:27 AM new
zookoo2000,
Perhaps the amount you were quoted was based on air. The seller may not know to check on the ground rate.
Yesterday I checked on a package to Australia...less than $5 for surface (which is going to take 2-3 months to arrive) or $11.00 for air.
While I don't see quite this difference for items going to Canada, it is still enough for me to ask my customers which they want.
I would ask them if it was ground or air before proclaiming it ridiculous unless you already know the weight of the item & know for a fact you are being grossly overcharged.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:28:55 AM new
on the international shipping; because I get embarassed by the price, I put the Post Office link into the email to the buyer with both air and surface prices...
Write the sellers AND include your zip, and ASK shipping cost before you bid. That is a simple solution.
We handle heavy items which are normally shipped via UPS, and require a zip before I can state shipping costs.
It doesn't take very much effort to write the seller and ask about shipping costs before you bid, but besure to include your zip. If you don't get an answer, don't bid.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:49:59 AM new
With the recent rash of "shipping" threads...I've been thinking(yes, it did hurt).
Why doesn't eBay enforce a policy that NO MORE then ~ lets say 10% ~ above "accual postage" can be charged for "handling".
I sell a lot of glassware so I need to recoup some of my expense for the bubblewrap & peanuts I pay for. Which is usually anywhere from $.30 to $.50.
I think eBay really needs such a policy for ALL sellers. Then everyone can bid with confidence and not have to worry about being gouged for unreasonable shipping charges.
By the way....for items that are to heavy and need a zone. I specify weight(1Lb over to cover handling) with my zipcode and a link to the UPS Calculator. This way they can check for themselves.
I just think there has to be a better way, then the way it has been going with all this shipping gouging. I've been gouged a few times and "I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER"
Why doesn't eBay enforce a policy that NO MORE then ~ lets say 10% ~ above "accual postage" can be charged for "handling".
That's a good first thought (and it will only hurt for a little while) but what would you suggest based on the following:
I have a item which only costs me $1.60 in ACTUAL USPS postage to ship. However, the box in which it ships costs me $.53, even from a box overrrun supplier.
Under your 10% rule, the most I could add to the $1.60 is $.16 which won't start to cover the cost of the box, much less the bubblewrap, peanuts, labels, plastic enclosure & tape.
BTW, my shipping cost on this is generally stated at $2.25.
Now, my next alternative is to bump this up to priority where I get the box, labels & tape for free (still won't cover bubblewrap, peanuts & plastic enclosure) & then my customers pay $3.50...costing THEM an additional $1.25 & I cover the rest either in my starting bid or from my profit margin.
It's a good start but in many cases, 10% isn't in the ballpark of the true costs beyond the postage.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:07:49 AM new
Will somebody please define "UNREASONABLE Shipping Charges?" Will all you high-and-mighty all-knowing all-seeing whiners please define Unreasonable shipping??? And not just your opinion, opinions are like a$$holes, everybody has one. But give us a definition that will hold up in a Supreme Court challenge.
Until then, you have absolutely no right to determine the shipping and handling charges of a seller, business, corporation. You only have the right to NOT PURCHASE!!!! Why can't people get that through their head!!!
Remember, no opinions, no assumptions, no guessing. Proven fact, applicable in every situation.
I don't know, whiny shipping threads get under my skin. A bunch of no-nothing dolts telling someone what it costs when they have absolutely no clue what is going on....
>Why doesn't eBay enforce a policy that NO MORE then ~ lets say 10% ~ above "accual postage" can be charged for "handling".
I hope not. If I pack a boat motor, and the UPS charges are $21.00 (it would be a smaller motor that isn't going to far), then I could only recoup $2.10? The box cost way more than that, and I use up a LOT of styrofoam and bubble wrap. You can't paint everything on ebay with one brush. (But it seems that that is what people want to do) This would mean I could charge people on the west coast twice as much handling as the people on the east coast... (do you see anything wrong with THAT PICTURE?)
posted on April 18, 2001 06:13:56 AM new
jwpc, I appreciate the links for the many online shipping calculators.....I have those too.......but the problem is the unmentioned handling fee that is tacked on above and beyond the shipping fee, after the fact. I realize that I can ask the seller prior to bidding, but it would save me and the ebay servers and the seller an additional email if they would just state,if they in fact do charge a handling fee, "buyer pays shipping and handling". or have a box that they could check to that effect when listing. Maybe I am being too literal......I know that when I state "buyer pays shipping" it means just that, and if it is fragile, hard to pack, etc. I will state that there will be a handling fee of $$$XXX.....all out in the open and no surprises.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:23:53 AM new
eventer,
Some good points.
I just threw the 10% out there. I understand about the 1st class thing. I too send stuff 1st class on occasion. If its something I know that can be sent for $.55 or $.76 I charge a dollar, its just simpler to keep track of that way.
mark090,
I too am sick of all the whining about "excessive shipping charges" When I wrote that post I was thinking about the gal that bought 8 plates and the seller want both her arms and a leg to ship them to her. That seemed EXCESSIVE to me.
AND....YES, the buyer should ask first, but gesssh!
With all the different styles and TOS everybody uses can't there be a UNIVERSAL understanding as to just how much a person is expected to pay above and beyond ACCUAL POSTAGE.
I say this....For those that REFUSE or DON't WANT to state shipping price in their auctions then it should revert back to a MANITORY percentage above and beyond ACCUAL POSTAGE.
For those that know what they have to have and WANT to get, THEN STATE IT IN THE AUCTION....To cover your A$$.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:35:39 AM new
Microbes,
I understand your point, but didn't you also say that you state it in your auction?
This is my point, I don't care what you ship you can always give your buyer an idea on what the cost will be to get it to them. If you have to even estimate, as least the buyer is going to have some idea of cost.
But to just spring an extra $10 or $15 on the EOA is just plain unfair.
And eBay needs to get a grip on these kinds of sellers.
I read these boards all the time.....and most ALL of us know HOW TO DO IT! For me it is because I do read these boards.
But look at the 1000's & 1000's that don't even know AW exist.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:36:02 AM new
The thread was not started about unreasonable shipping charges; the thread is about requiring sellers to state on the auction page what the charges will be. This isn't hard to do, an actual amount doesn't have to be stated, "Actual postage based on your zip code + materials and handling charge of xxx"
This argument goes on and on and pops up every few weeks and I blame it on the sellers. Yes, buyers could email and ask, but from a seller's vantage point, why would you want unnecessary emails when you could avoid it by simply stating on the auction page what the shipping amount is or how you compute it?
I don't care what a seller charges if they would just say how much or how it's computed. If it's too high, I just click the back button.
[ edited by london4 on Apr 18, 2001 06:37 AM ]
>I understand your point, but didn't you also say that you state it in your auction?
I sure do. Only people that get "shocked" are those who don't bother to read, and I don't know what I can do about that....
I agree that NOT stating what your "handling & packing fee" is not the proper way to do business. My self, I wouldn't buy a "pig in a poke", but it seems that most people claiming to be "gouged" did just that.
posted on April 18, 2001 07:23:35 AM new
As both a buyer and seller I understand both sides of this problem.
- Buyers have to understand they NEED to supply a zip code in order to calculate "exact shipping charges" (not I'm not saying *actual*). I always post the range of shipping charges for USPS (since their ratefolds indicate the min/max for a weight), and then an approximation for UPS (since there are SOOO many variables that go into their calculations! but posting too high makes some buyers close to me not bid, but estimating too low would mean upsetting bidders across the country).
- Unfortunately 75% of the people who win or ask me for shipping costs don't provide their zip code when first asked/asking for rates. ARRRGGGHHH!!!
- Also what would eBay consider "actual" shipping charge for UPS?? Here are the facts:
- If you're a small time seller without a daily pickup account, you pay a HUGE premimum if you take the package to UPS's customer counter. It aint small change either.. Usually a minimum of $1.50 to $2.50 fee even on low weight items.
- If you ship UPS to a residential address instead of a business address you will ALSO pay a large premimum, again, it seems to be around $1.50 or so per package right now.
- If you ship to a non-metro area, you will find the rate is higher, and if it's moderately rural, they will now tack on ANOTHER fee.. somewhere around $2.50 for "remote service".
Therefore, a package that someone might be able to send from their employeer who has an account for $3.50 to a metro-business address nearby (or even across the country), may find it will cost as much as $10 to ship to some rural area in Montana if they take it to the customer counter.
(And to make it clear--I'm not referring to taking it to a contract station such as Mail Boxes Etc... which then take the UPS actual amount and then redouble that charging you $20!!! --- I'm taking about the tiny counter attached to your local UPS facility by the airport!) [And as mentioned here before, they now are forcing you to open all packages to inspect packaging and refusing them if you don't have at least 2" of packing and sometimes double boxing)]
As much as I'd like to see actual costs quoted before I bid as a buyer, as a seller it is virtually impossible to provide an exact cost, unless:
You ONLY ship via the postal service *AND* your package weight is 5 pounds or less.
The only other option is to have eBay implement software to require a bidder to provide their zip code at time of bidding, then using parameters provided by a seller when listing (e.g. weight, % upcharge, daily pickup vs cust counter) calculate the real amount the seller will charge.
Will it happen: NO... NEVER. Too much work and updating required by eBay, and they'd probably charge for it and sellers would refuse to pay for yet-another-fee.
Unfortunately, I don't see a workable automatic solution, unless the carriers simplify their rate structure.
In the meantime, as a buyer, you need to ask on an individual basis if you need to know and a "range" isn't acceptable, or the seller doesn't list anything at all. If you don't get or like the answer...(after comparing for yourself against the actual)...DON'T BID
posted on April 18, 2001 07:25:40 AM new
It's not impossible to state a fixed shipping charge. I do it all the time. BUT, that doesn't mean it's exact relative to postage, particularly when it involves international rates.
And it costs significantly more to ship from the US to Australia than to Canada, for example. So I use an average to get a fixed shipping rate as I've found that even when providing the weight and a link to the USPS website, international bidders WILL NOT take advantage and find out how much before bidding.
If we ship internationally, are we supposed to list the rate for every single country? That's rather ridiculous. It would only work if you restrict yourself to the US and Canada.
It's also possible to list a range of rates bases on zones or countries, but again, no way can that be exact until you find out the zip code and/or country of the buyer at the end. http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on April 18, 2001 07:45:56 AM new
Just a note to all sellers - It's not always 'easy' to 'just write the seller and ask'. For some reason, when I click on 'send email to seller' and ask a question, often (not always) I can't simply hit the back button to go back. Since I browse through searches, this requires me to go back and re-do my search which can be a major pain. Therefore I almost never write the seller.
I'm a seller too so I understand handling charges etc. I have no problems with them as long as they're listed. But if you don't include charges in the auction listing, you won't be getting any bids from me.
posted on April 18, 2001 07:57:01 AM new
Its obvious there is no simple solution to the "shipping charge" problem.
About all there is left to say is:
BUYERS
If you feel you have been unfairly charged for "shipping/handling" AFTER THE FACT, your only recourse is to PAY it and then give the seller a Big Fat NEG to warn others.
If you feel you can't do that, then just pay it and move on and consider it a lesson well learnt.
posted on April 18, 2001 07:59:45 AM newWith all the different styles and TOS everybody uses can't there be a UNIVERSAL understanding as to just how much a person is expected to pay above and beyond ACCUAL POSTAGE.
Actually no. There are too many variations in items as well as shipping and packing requirements. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to come up with such an understanding.
posted on April 18, 2001 08:50:41 AM newjwpc That's good information, but expecting buyers to do that kind of legwork isn't especially reasonable. Many buyers have been "burned" in the past and are unwilling to buy from a seller who doesn't specify the fees, so it's in a seller's interest to do so.
If a seller isn't charging handling fees, then they can simply state "buyer pays actual shipping costs; no handling surcharge" and be done with it. If they do charge handling fees, then they can base their fees off the highest cost (or if they're a higher volume seller off a middle cost and let the law of averages work out the rest).
If you feel you have been unfairly charged for "shipping/handling" AFTER THE FACT, your only recourse is to PAY it and then give the seller a Big Fat NEG to warn others.
Or, don't pay it and neg the seller. The occasional neg is much more harmful to sellers than it is to buyers (because many buyers base their decision on whether or not to bid on an auction on the seller's feedback record). If the seller turns in a Final Value Fee request against you, appeal it saying that the seller was avoiding eBay fees by charging a very high handling charge.
posted on April 18, 2001 11:15:09 AM new
IMHO the current system on ebay is totally useless. "Actual shipping" may or may not include packaging materials, and simply stating "fixed price" doesn't tell me how much I'm going to pay.
How about the choices being:
* Buyer pays actual postage.
* Buyer pays actual postage plus packaging fee of $X.XX.
*Buyer pays fixed fee of $X.XX for domestic mail only.
*See description for shipping charges.
I know this doesn't cover everything, but to cover every contingency would take a book, and at least this is better than what is currently offered.
posted on April 18, 2001 01:15:12 PM new
whats wrong with the way its done now...each seller decides what "shipping" includes, how much to charge, whether to state it in the auction or not, whether he wants to charge a handling fee and how much?
AND the buyer assumes responsibility for himself...without expecting "mama ebay" to do it for him.
Shipping to high for you...don't bid!
Seller didn't mention it in the ad like you want him to....don't bid!
Don't like handling charges...don't bid!
Want to know how much shipping is BEFORE you bid...ASK
There is no need for any further clarification than there is right now. Sellers can choose what works for them...buyers can choose what works for them. If what one seller chose is out of sinc with what one specific buyer wants then they don't do business together...its simple!
posted on April 18, 2001 01:33:30 PM new
I frankly don't think eBay should "force" their sellers (or buyers) to do anything, and they have proven that they can't (or won't) force them to do anything. The only thing you can depend upon eBay for is non-enforcement of their own standards.
It is up to both bidders and sellers to work out suitable terms.
