KatyD
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posted on November 26, 2001 08:11:24 PM new
The seller has no reason to believe the item is defective. The seller is not obligated to offer a refund because auctions are as-is.
<br />
This is precisely the type of advice that will eventually put a seller out of business. The slippers were advertised as new with tags, inferring that they had never been worn and that there were no "problems". If the excuse is going to be used that the seller was unable to inspect them (before selling them) than the seller should have made that clear in the auction ad. Words to the effect of "I do not have these in my possession, and make no warranty as to the condition". Without this disclaimer, it is the seller who is on the hook for selling defective merchandise. If no replacement or exchange is offered, a negative is DEFINITELY in order here. You may be out your money, but hopefully, another prospective buyer will read you comments and avoid a similar bad experience. The seller needs to clean up his or her act. Of course it's entirely possible that this seller is on her second or third (or more) seller id, precisely because of her poor business practices and the negs accumulated. Which would account for the relatively low feedback number (16?) and the uncooperative attitude in making good on defective merchandise.
KatyD
(ed. spelling)
[ edited by KatyD on Nov 26, 2001 08:13 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on November 26, 2001 08:35:16 PM new
ever wonder why some folks shop in reputable store at a higher price?????????
we all need to revist good stores and get away from this ebay person to person stuff.
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kiara
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posted on November 26, 2001 09:16:12 PM new
stopwhining
Do you sell on ebay?
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zclone
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posted on November 26, 2001 09:38:22 PM new
Personally I disagree with any of the individuals who've said the seller is not responsible and that he has a "no return policy", I believe Ebay has a policy regarding merchandise being misrepresented. Look into "rules & safety." If it was me, i'd pull their information and call and tell them their shoes were grossly misrepresented and you wish to receive a refund.
And yes I'm a seller on Ebay for those questioning everybody's identity, but not under zclone. Was this seller of the shoes a powerseller? If so aren't they required to have a return policy?
And negatives to have an impact, if a seller has too many for my liking I won't buy from them. I'd much rather keep looking for a reputible dealer. Just my two pennies.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 26, 2001 10:43:17 PM new
New only implies it hasn't been used.
Target also does not allow returns on clearance items even if it defective. Doesn't seem to hurt their repeat business.
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kiara
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posted on November 26, 2001 11:16:32 PM new
Target also does not allow returns on clearance items even if it defective. Doesn't seem to hurt their repeat business.
If you shop in their store you get a chance to view the merchandise before buying though I am not sure what their website policy is.
As far as the ballet shoes go, I think the seller should refund as the defects weren't disclosed. Transactions like this hurt all sellers and buyers.
I asked stopwhining if he sells because when he makes the statement we all need to revist good stores and get away from this ebay person to person stuff that also hurts all buyers and sellers.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 07:30:24 AM new
Buyers on ebay can inspect the item too! If there's no photo, ask seller to email you one. Ask detailed questions- Are their holes, tears, parts coming loose, fading? That's part of inspecting an item. I get a few buyers emailing me detailed questions and I respond in detail because I know they are a serious bidder.
When you ask detailed questions, expect detailed answers. If seller doesn't have a return policy, make sure seller tests item and tells you it works.
98% of the time the product will arrive fine as expected, so figure your risk into your bid. If you bid on 10 items a year at $10 each, your risk is two items not arriving fine, so lower your bid by $2 on each of the ten times you bid and your risk is covered.
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just4laffs
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posted on November 27, 2001 08:30:01 AM new
Here is the email I sent the seller today. I did not threaten neg/neutral feedback or a Billpoint chargeback. Will wait for her response.
*********************************************
"Dear Seller:
I have spoken to a representative at Sodanca and they will not do anything about the defect in the shoes. They tell me that I have to return them to wherever I bought them.
This is why I am writing to you. I understand your policy is all sales final, but you did not disclose the damage/defect in the shoes in your auction. Even if you did not know about it, you advertised these shoes as being new, and new means that they should be in new, useable condition. This was not the case in this auction. These shoes must be repaired professionally in order to be useable. I feel that as a professional seller you should at least stand behind your auction and make good on this purchase. I feel that I have made every attempt on my end to get this taken care of without incurring additional expenses to have the shoes repaired.
I am respectfully requesting a refund on this purchase including the shipping both ways. I await your reply."
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just4laffs
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posted on November 27, 2001 08:46:05 AM new
Well, that was quick! Just heard back from the seller.
"The terms of the sale regarding the item you purchased from me on E-Bay
"SoDanca Ballet Slippers" stated that "All Sales Final" In addition the
terms also stated that the shipping was $4.00. To clarify your concern
regarding the shipping, I did not mean to imply that this was standard by
"E-Bay guidelines". This figure was determined by the Seller and was
clearly stated in the auction description. Sending this item via Priority
Mail vs First Class would not have expedited the shipping process to you.
This item was purchased at an extremely reasonable price. I have spoken to
other employees who are not aware of any defect. The description of the
shoe in the auction was accurate.
As a buyer you assume the responsibility of the terms of the sale which
stand as stated above.
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kiara
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posted on November 27, 2001 09:05:17 AM new
just4laffs
Well, it looks like you got your answer. I guess it is a lesson learned when the auction states that all sales are final. Though NWT does lead the buyer to believe that the item is in new condition with no flaws.
quickdraw29
I understand what you are saying about asking questions before bidding but if someone describes an item as NWT or excellent condition and does not state that there are flaws (not talking about this auction), the buyer should expect it to arrive in excellent condition.
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KatyD
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posted on November 27, 2001 09:06:16 AM new
Give this seller negative feedback and move on. If I were interested in one of this seller's items, I definitely would not bid if a negative is on record for lack of refund for defective goods. Other potential buyers should have the opportunity to be warned about the sellers shoddy business practices. You are right. The seller is wrong.
KatyD
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moonmem-07
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posted on November 27, 2001 09:35:26 AM new
I would also leave negative feedback. When something is listed as new with tags that's what they should be. If there were any flaws, they should have been disclosed.
"If man were to be crossed with a cat, it would greatly improve the man, but deteriorate the cat." Mark Twain
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stopwhining
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posted on November 27, 2001 09:48:37 AM new
kiara.
i sell on ebay and rarely buy on ebay these days.
if i look at all the items i have bot on ebay ,i must say i am not impressed with the quality nor the price i paid for them.
i am not looking for sympathy,i am just saying this as a matter of fact.
i have decided that it is better to buy what i need from reputable stores and pay more,of course i dont have a shopping list mile long.
i will go to a store,find the item i want,exmamine it,and if i think the price is reasonable,i will buy it and take it home with me.
i could have saved a few dollars shopping around,but then there is car,gasoline and time
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REAMOND
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posted on November 27, 2001 09:54:48 AM new
Quickdraw29 is wrong. Terms such as "All sales final" and purchase "as is" do not give the seller card blanche to defraud or not disclose defects of the item. When an item is stated as "new" it not only implies unused, it also means that the item is fit for the use intended and without defects. Nothing you can state in a consumer transaction can relieve the vendor from these responsibilities short of clearly giving notice of the defects.
Always make your online purchases with credit cards. Whether it is for $15 or $1500. Not only will it protect the buyer, enough charge backs will put these types of sharp dealers out of business. Credit card companies will not honor "as is" or "all sales final" terms in consumer transactions as they will not hold up in court when defects are not clearly disclosed, or the representation of the item is fraudulent.
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stopwhining
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:00:27 AM new
if the buyer uses his cc for payment via paypal,paypal has a policy of not getting involved with quality dispute-whether the new item has a defect will fall under that category.
it sounds like from the emails of the seller,she is not going to do anything about this transaction and does not care whether buyer leaves negative feedback or not.
when buyer leaves neg feedback,seller could do the same.
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just4laffs
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:05:09 AM new
I'm going to look into a chargeback when I get home. According to Billpoint I have to get in contact with Visa to do this.
Luckily for me seller already had left feedback for me when I paid thru Billpoint.
S
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REAMOND
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:16:20 AM new
If your Paypal payment was through a credit card, Paypal's policy is without effect, as the credit card company's rules are what Paypal must abide by. If you paid through Paypal through a balance or debit, it is a different situation.
The credit card charge back will require you to return the item. MAKE SURE WHEN YOU RETURN IT YOU HAVE PROOF OF RETURN DELIVERY OF THE ITEM, SUCH AS INSURED MAIL.
Keep your neg FB on the seller factual, such as- "New" item defective, refused refund, had to do CC charge back.
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stopwhining
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:25:35 AM new
seller could refuse to accept your return.
then you waste your postage and waste your time with visa.
with stores .you can pick a busy day and see if it will slip through,say monday??
but with individual sellers,it will be harder.
may be mark them as FREE SAMPLE and do not use your name .
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stopwhining
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:28:39 AM new
there is also a fee seller pays billpoint for chargeback,say 5 0r 10 dollars???
if seller is at fault
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KatyD
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:33:23 AM new
It does not matter whether the seller "accepts" the return. If you keep your return postage documentation and contest the purchase through your cc company, they will charge back the purchase to the vendor. The onus is on the vendor to try to recoup his/her money through the credit card company, and that aint gonna happen in a case where the goods were defective. If you initiate a charge back for this purpose, the seller is going to be SOL, and in combination with your negative feedback, hopefully it will give the seller impetus to improve his business ethics. 
KatyD
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kiara
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:41:40 AM new
stopwhining, thanks for answering. You aren't the first seller to mention that they are disappointed with buying on ebay.
Most of my experiences with buying have been good but whenever something does go wrong for me (like recently), I slow down on my bidding.
It's just ironic that we are all trying to sell our stuff but we hesitate buying from others because of disappointing experiences. Like I said, it makes it bad for all.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:45:11 AM new
I would have taken a different approach. I'd write: Hello, thanks for the fast delivery, unfortunately there's a problem. I bought these shoes for my x year old daughter, she was so excited when they arrived, but we discovered a big hole in them, looks like a manufacturer error. I'd be willing to cover shipping these back, and exchanging them for another pair. Please reuse the box I return them in to help me save on packaging costs, plus I'll add a couple bucks to cover reshipping.
Thanks,
It should only cost you appr. $4 total shipping vs what you'd pay to have them repaired. However, now obviously it's too late to send this email.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 10:56:22 AM new
Seller did not state item is in new condition, only that it is new. New only imples it hasn't been used.
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REAMOND
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:09:42 AM new
New also means that the item is without defects and is fit for the use intended. An item can be "old" and yet "unused".
Under Quickdraw29's definition, you could sell "new" cars without engines and without disclosure. The cars would certainly be "unused", but obviously unfit for the intended use with undisclosed defects.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:11:00 AM new
Reamond, you are wrong on all accounts. You have no evidence of fraud. Seller bought new merchandise and sold it as new. Seller never said they inspected item.
Major stores sell defective merchendise all the time unknowingly. There's no law they have to accept a return on defective merchandise unless their return policy states they will. Like I said, Target will not refund on defective items if on clearance.
Buyer knew item is as-is, and all sales final. Too bad.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:16:53 AM new
A chargeback cost can be passed onto the new cutomers so it just punishes other buyers.
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just4laffs
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:28:58 AM new
Well, I just got off the phone with my credit card company. I am in the process of doing the chargeback as we speak. I know its only $15 but its the principle of the matter.
Sent this to the seller:
Then you leave me no choice but to file for a chargeback with my credit card company. The merchandise was defective. I will be mailing them back to you tomorrow. Appropriate feedback will also be left for you with regard to this transaction, and your unwillingness to stand behind your products.
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REAMOND
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:29:19 AM new
No Quickdraw19 you're wrong.
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<br />
First it is the vendor's responsibility to inspect the item. The vendor is holding it out to the public for sale. This doesn't mean that the vendor actually inspects the items, but it does mean that they are held accountable for refunds due to defects. The function of a refund policy is not to prevent refunds, nor to relieve vendor's from responsibility of giving refunds for non-disclosed defects.
<br />
<br />
Target's policy will not hold up if the purchase is made with a credit card.
<br />
<br />
Statements such as "as is", and "no returns or refunds" are referred to as ad torrerum clauses and are unenforceable in consumer transactions unless defects are disclosed. They only apply to cases of buyers remorse.
<br />
<br />
Vendors use these terms all the time because they know that gullible people such as yourself will think that because Target says it, it must be true.
<br />
<br />
Fraud also includes intentional non-disclosure. Knowledge of a defect can also be imputed to the vendor even if they had no actual knowledge.
<br />
<br />
Consumers are not sheep to be sheared by slick and sharp operators, and consumer laws reflect this.<br />
[ edited by REAMOND on Nov 27, 2001 11:31 AM ]
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:30:46 AM new
Vintage sellers use the term New to imply it hasn't been used. Example, new in box.
A car missing an engine is not a defect. Go to a car lot and see if they disclose any defects of the engine! See if they'll give you a refund if there is a defect.
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quickdraw29
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posted on November 27, 2001 11:36:44 AM new
I bought an item on ebay for $650, in the stores it retails for over $1,400. A savings of $750. $750-That is one expensive cost to receive a return policy at a major store.
I could have bought my electronic item at a store with a return policy at $100 more than what I paid on ebay.
Those return policies are expensive! I'd rather buy on ebay.
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