posted on March 13, 2002 11:08:01 AM new
Tomorrow is my sister's birthday and I ordered a $25 gift certificate from a major movie chain for her. When I came to the shipping choices on their website, the cheapest turned out to be $4.90 for regular UPS shipping. There was an additional $2 charge for handling, so I ended up paying $6.90 to ship a (light) $25 item. It was still cheaper than the gas it would take for me to drive to a theatre and purchase the gift certificate there.
I ordered an outfit from a clothing catalog last week. Shipping via USPS was $11.95 but I had no choice. The shipping cost was based on price not on weight so I guess I was subsidizing those smaller purchases.
I have been wondering what would have happened if I had told either one of these companies that I was absolutely not going to pay these high shipping/handling rates and demand that they use a less expensive method. Perhaps I should have told them that I refused to pay anything but exact postage and see how far that would have gotten me. I feel an experiment coming on soon.
On the flip side I ordered a Barnes and Noble gift certificate for a retirement gift and had the certificate shipped directly to me. There was no extra charge to ship, just the cost of the certificate.
posted on March 13, 2002 11:11:00 AM new
they would have more than likely told you where to go.....if their prices are advertised and i STRESS if then thats the price you pay if you dont like it dont bu there. same as on ebay if shipping charges are listed thats the price you pay dont like it bid on another one. EXACTLY what i do
posted on March 13, 2002 11:16:32 AM new
Oh, this is such a hot topic! eBay buyers want rock bottom prices for everything! We have been selling for almost 2 years now. In order to stay in business, we have to structure our shipping prices with the competition. I would love to raise our prices...but you know the answer. No bids.
We ship media rate for 95% of our products. We have to incorporate materials, handling and fees into that measely fixed rate. Our handling fee at the end might come out to a few cents. But we still get complaints that our shipping is too high, and we 'overcharged' on shipping. Our auctions state fixed shipping. Not actual shipping. But because the complainers don't read...we get the neutrals and negatives. Some days I love selling on eBay...some days I just want to throw in the towel....
posted on March 13, 2002 11:30:15 AM new
Hi:
I did on time in fact order somerthing that had a $15.00 S&H Fees attached. The item should have cost no more than $5.00 to ship! So I called them and asked what method the used to ship. They told me UPS! I told them I didn't care for their service, and would prefer they shiped USPS Priority. Told them I would get the item faster,which is what I wanted for those rates. Well they did and I got the item in 3 day's instead of the usual 8-10 days! Still paid $15.00 but at least I got what I paid for, faster service!
posted on March 13, 2002 11:30:54 AM new
I also ship media mail and always mention in my auctions the charge for it.
Lets say I am sending out 1 video tape. In my auction I state that shipping is $2.00. We all know that 1 Video Tape costs no more then $1.50 but my buyers know in advance what I charge for shipping and it certainly isnt overcharging.
Speaking of which..I bid on a video the other day and it said that shipping was $3.00 media mail. I personally think that is overcharging for media mail shipping therefore I asked the seller to please send Priority Mail and I'll pay the extra 50 cents. Now I wont be overcharged!
MEOW
posted on March 13, 2002 12:23:59 PM new
in the real world,retailers pay real employees real wage and benefits .
they have back office operations which burn cash and they cannot afford to have some employees stand in line at post office every day.
EMPLOYEES ARE PAID TO WORK,NOT TO STAND IN LINE/
if you dont like their shipping and handling charge,then dont buy from them.
that certificate from barnes and noble with zero shipping is fine -when the recipinet uses it to buy a book ,shipping will come out of the value of the certificate.
also lets not forget when we buy from most out of state mail order companies,we pay no sales tax and we pay no gasoline to drive to the store and no parking .
posted on March 13, 2002 12:31:50 PM new
just think if you were running one of these outfits and the mode of operation is to pack it and wait for ups delivery.
how are you going to ask one of your employee to drop what he is doing,find a usps priority box and drive to nearby post office,stand in line,pay with company petty cash or his own change,drive back and file a request for refund and continue working .
if he cant finish his regular work that day,is he supposed to stay late and work overtime?
who is going to pay him overtime??
do you know how many hours it will take to mail your lousy package so you can save a few bucks??
what about if the package was not delivered or you want to know ? their regular procedure calls for contact with ups and not USPS,you are asking them to make exceptions for you which will divert time and resources .
posted on March 13, 2002 01:00:17 PM new
katmommy, you didn't want to get "overcharged" so you paid 50 cents more for the same item. What's wrong with this picture?
posted on March 13, 2002 01:37:47 PM new
"I bid on a video the other day and it said that shipping was $3.00 media mail. I personally think that is overcharging for media mail shipping therefore I asked the seller to please send Priority Mail and I'll pay the extra 50 cents. Now I wont be overcharged."
No, now you will be undercharged, and you're scamming the seller from capturing his costs back. You know your morals are worse then a seller who overcharges. At least the seller rendered a service, you're just stealing.
I charge about $3 for media mail for videos, and it's not overcharging. I'm losing money on it. Here's the breakdown: 50¢ for supplies; $4.40 labor; .12¢ car/gas; I'll include all the overhead as $0 even though I could charge fair market value. SubTotal $5.02 handling + $1.34 postage =$6.36. Buyer saves (I lose) $3.36.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Mar 13, 2002 01:40 PM ]
posted on March 13, 2002 01:49:19 PM new
And at the end of the year you get refunded for the car mileage, supplies, postage and labor. So now you have gotten paid twice for those services. I don't have a problem at all with your charges and find $3.00 a fair shipping price for your videos but the "oh poor me , I am losing so much money shipping these product's I sell" is bologna. as always, Feel free to blast away
posted on March 13, 2002 01:49:40 PM new
I've been selling full-time for about 4 years now, and I've done several experiments with s/h charges, starting bids, etc. Interestingly, I found with the (small) changes I implemented, my sell-through rate remained about the same.
When I increased s/h charges, there was no change. When I increased my starting bid, there was no change. I sell mostly low dollar items, and every dollar counts.
If I had made some really big change, it probably would have had an effect. But I charge more than others who sell the same items, yet my sell-through rate is about the same as my competitor's, maybe even a little bit better. I think the trick is having the first auction to grab the bidder's attention. Presentation is 90% of success in selling, as long as you have decent merchandise. Most people don't really do that much comparative shopping. They see something, they want it, they bid on it.
The only thing that has changed my sell-through was adding gallery images and BIN. I implemented both at about the same time, and my sell-through increased by about 40%.
Moral of the story? Charge enough to make a reasonable profit, on starting bids and on shipping. You'll still get bids.
posted on March 13, 2002 01:54:25 PM new
I went to Tickets.com to order tickets, the convenience fee was $14. I order toys from FAO and the s/h is twice what I charge for s/h on similar items.
The problem is that ebay sellers act like their (shipping)job is too easy, and in the market place easy jobs do not get paid fair value. If the buyer figures a monkey could do your job, the your job becomes worth less.
My shipping is not exactly easy. I take extra time to package the items professionally so they won't break on the way to the destination. That is one reason I can charge more than someone else who rushes through the job. I let buyers know that if they pressure me so they value my time.
posted on March 13, 2002 01:54:39 PM new
I'm not scamming anyone..I want it Priority mail as opposed to maybe waiting 10 days. He had the option to say NO by the way..all I did was tell the seller that I wanted it priority and I added 50 cents to cover priority mail shipping. What I thought was overcharging on media rate is my opinion and I'd rather pay the 50 cents more to have it quicker since I have to pay in that price range anyway.
MEOW
posted on March 13, 2002 02:02:57 PM new
quickdraw:
How dare you say I am stealing. I bid and won an item and shipping was quoted at 3 dollars..I chose to pay $3.50 for faster delivery..he said FINE. What planet would arrest me for being a thief?? I did not not hold a gun to the sellers head nor threaten him in any way.
MEOW
posted on March 13, 2002 02:03:11 PM new
"And at the end of the year you get refunded for the car mileage, supplies, postage and labor. So now you have gotten paid twice for those services. I don't have a problem at all with your charges and find $3.00 a fair shipping price for your videos but the "oh poor me , I am losing so much money shipping these product's I sell" is bologna."
Most ebay sellers don't do the volume to push them past the IRS minimum to make these claims on the tax form. Also, sellers don't make back the full amount, it just reduces your taxable income. I don't see how you get paid twice, please illustrate.
I don't play victim, I don't say "oh poor me, I'm losing money." I'm stating facts so buyers become aware. Victims act helpless, on the otherhand I'm taking action to educate. That is far from acting helpless.
posted on March 13, 2002 02:11:00 PM new
You wanted it sent Priority Mail without the handling charge. If you just wanted it sent Priority then you should ask for the new s/h charge instead of dictating "I'll include .50¢ and you can send it Priority."
The seller could turn that down, but some sellers are timid or afraid of what you will do if they say no. In contractual terms that'd be duress and would make the contract void.
posted on March 13, 2002 02:14:05 PM new
I have zero problem with you helping people see the big picture. My comment was not directed exactly at you and you alone. I was also trying to educate. maybe everyone didn't know all this stuff was dedcutable. I was directing at the comments on this subject that come from the sellers that DO use all of the available deductions and still complain all the way through the process. They want it both ways Screw you buyers I'll overcharge and pack like crap then I'll deduct it all again at the end. that is the point I was trying to make. People like yourself that take the time pack well and let everyone know the fair shipping up front I don't have issues with. Sorry if it seemed I was "attacking" you when I wasn't I have just read several BS complaints on the subject from other high volume sellers with zero class and morales.
posted on March 13, 2002 02:17:59 PM new
By the way as you probably know quick I am also a High volume seller so I understand all the overhead and extra costs that go into the process of mailing as well. I also take the time to pack well, ship fast and don't have any hidden costs that surprise people. I think that has a direct effect on sales as My repeat customer base is VERY VERY high. Some sellers also refuse to see these and want to make the fast buck on shipping when being fair would gain them much more in the long haul.
posted on March 13, 2002 02:24:36 PM new
I'm a buyer also, and I don't claim to be the ideal buyer. I always haggle with sellers on shipping if it seems high, but I don't threaten, I don't leave the seller a negative, I just work the process of haggling.
I does that make me feel as a seller? As a seller I know I have to move inventory, and if some buyers haggle, or if I have to make consessions to close a sale, that's just part of the market place. Not all buyers are loaded with money that they can pay any price. I feel better they buy from me and haggle then go to someone else and I lose the sale.
The whole point though, is to treat the seller with respect. They aren't required to haggle, they aren't required to give buyers a deal.
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Mar 13, 2002 02:29 PM ]
posted on March 13, 2002 02:44:26 PM new
Here's an interesting article in BW mag. It is price related to this thread.
"Research from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology sugeests this tactic (of giveaway prices) only attracts the kinds of customers that online sellers don't want. Why? Cheapskates attracted by lowball prices don't also buy higher margin goods that makes retailers money. So to get free spending customers, sites should charge a little more.
They found that the cheapest price attracts 40% more customers than one's 1% pricier. But the customers aren't really worth it. The lowest price is going to be such that the seller loses money.
So the cheap site needs to persuade vistors to buy more or upgrade to costlier items. But cheapo customers are the least likely to do so. The slightly pricier sites got 40% of the customers to upgrade; Cheap sites only swayed 10%. Online, lossleaders have little to lead."
I find the basis of this article true. On ebay you can have more lowball bidders but it is the free spending one's who bid higher. One free spender can replace 5 cheapos.
I also get many of my buyers to bid on more on my auctions. My auctions are geared towards freespenders so it is easy for me to do.
posted on March 13, 2002 02:58:52 PM new
"You wanted it sent Priority Mail without the handling charge. If you just wanted it sent Priority then you should ask for the new s/h charge instead of dictating "I'll include .50¢ and you can send it Priority"
Oh please..this is the real world. You think as a buyer I was worried about this guys handling charge? I NEVER in over 1000 transactions as a seller was asked what my handling charge was. In the real world, sellers want the extra $$ to cover whatever they want to cover and buyers want to save on shipping. As a buyer I knew that a video tape would be $3.50 to ship Priority mail..I need not concern myself with how much gas the seller is using to ship my item. I took it upon myself to say I wanted Priority shipping for 50 cents more. Seller said No problem and guess what? He left me fabulous feedback for great communication and immediate payment and this guy has over 2000 feedback.
MEOW
posted on March 13, 2002 03:13:46 PM new
Finally I got you to see the light...this is the real world. Sellers can charge as much as they want and no one should complain about the seller ripping you off.
If your intention was to make a lowball offer, that is one thing, but if your intention was to complain about the handling, that is unacceptable. Your seller just figured it was not worth haggling over, and everyone's happy, so that's good.
I have learned that denying sellers ample profit is not always in my best interest. I have seen companies who had the lowest price also cut the size of the item and keep the price the same. If they don't make the profits, companies just find ways to cut back and it offers the buyer less value. When I started to take notice, I observe this is very common amongst companies.
posted on March 13, 2002 03:27:35 PM new
My wife saw some K-Tel kitchen thingamabob on TV the other night she wanted. I waited to write down the 800 number, but then stopped in mid-stroke when I heard the rapidly-spoken "...plus $12.95 shipping and handling..." at the end of the commercial. I looked at my wife and said: "Do you really want me to pay 13 bucks to some fat cat in Omaha to ship this to you?" She looked sad, but she bravely said "No, that would be stupid." I'm mighty proud of that girl.
People are rebelling all over against usurous shipping and "handling" fees, and they're a lot more conscious of it than formerly. The "cheaper than driving" rationalization is a dot-com boom town leftover (though some still use it) but people are slowly waking up to the fact that greed still regularly overcomes common sense on the Internet. They also realize that being screwed for shipping destroys the value of a transaction. There's no joy in it.
Like most others, I am offended by outrageous shipping charges, but unlike most others I flatly refuse to participate. That is, if a shipping charge is not fair and reasonable, I will not conduct business -- it's that simple. That means there are a lot of things I'd like to have, but don't, because I won't hand over money for nothing. I regularly bail out during checkout because of it, because sellers "cleverly" wait until then to drop the boom.
I'm comfortable with that. Screwing people is not something to be proud of, and you shouldn't be encouraging it. You wouldn't do business with someone locally who did that to you. Why would you do business with someone out of town who did the same thing?
Even the eBay handbook recommends charging a "handling fee." Have you ever stopped to wonder what that actually means? Is it possible for anyone to ship anything without "handling" it? Of course not. So go to the next step: ask yourself: "Am I being screwed?" Naturally the answer is Yes. What are you going to do now? Shrug it off and do it anyway? If so, you get exactly what you deserve, which is to say: nothing.
I don't have answers, but as both a seller and a buyer, I can tell you without reservation that anyone charging a "handling fee" or absurd shipping does not get my business and never will. For any reason.
posted on March 13, 2002 03:44:16 PM new
When I see a thingamabob on tv, I head over to ebay where it's selling for a lot less. I do that elswhere too. If I see a book on Amazon I want, over to ebay I go to buy it. Ebay buyers must know what terrific bargains they find there, so why whine about paying the seller a little extra in handling? If they're beating the big boys in price they must have gone through more effort to find and buy that item.
posted on March 13, 2002 03:47:26 PM new
who complained QUICKDRAW? I didnt complain to him or here on the boards about the shipping charge. I haggled and got my way and the seller was happy with the transaction so I certainly dont see why you are patting yourself on the back saying that you got me to see the light.
MEOW
posted on March 13, 2002 04:15:27 PM new
1.Most Items Won are a steal,Below Market Value,Guide Value and Just Plain Cheaper then B & M shops.
2.You Dont Pay Sales Taxes on it.Or Most of it.
3.Seller dose put some cost in it!
4.In a Real Auction there are 10% to 15% BUYER FEES!!My God what is this world coming too?
So stop Cryin Already about some low end handling fees and look at the BIG PICTURE!!
posted on March 13, 2002 07:24:04 PM new
bdunique:
Re: rebelling
" I regularly bail out during checkout because of it, because sellers "cleverly" wait until then to drop the boom. "
Care to elaborate on that? Do you just flat-out not complete the transaction, if in your opinion the shipping/handling (gasp!) charge is out of line with your pre-set specs?
