IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 10:34:24 AM new
Hi!
I will be raising my 2 grandsons for a while...they are 8 mos and 2 yrs.(There are 4 in this family...my youngest daughter will take in the other 2 ages 4 and 3...these boys have ADD and are very hyper...I just couldn't take them all)...but we are only 15 minutes from each other so they'll see each other often.
Anyway..I won't go into details...but I was wondering what HELP is out there? We kinda think that we wouldn't qualify for ANY help with them...where they are now they get Food stamps...and medicaid.
What are the pros and cons of having legal guardianship? We are in a state that does NOT give foster children to family members...and the 1 I know of that they did it took 6 months to get the infant to the grandparents.
While my hubby makes a good salary this will definately affect our expenditures...if we have to add them to our health insurance it will be $15 a visit...and $20 a prescription...which isn't much except we have a lot of meds ourselves....
Diapers...formula...yikes...
Any helpful tips out there? Is there a service that will 'relieve' me once a week or something?
I don't want to go into details about the break..it is ugly and I am proud my 22 yr old is getting out of this situation she's been in for 5 years.
She is borderline retarded..able to hold a job at Taco Bell (but even Kmart was to much for her)...and being a single Mom is overwhelming and terrifying for her.
She said she wants to get a second job to pay off their debts and get her life back on track so the boys will be with us for a 'while'.
Her husband is something I don't even want to go there...your WORSE nightmare.
Please don't make judgements here...I just want to hear from others in my position and what 'help' might be available?
Thanks a bunch
Carole
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helnjoe
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posted on January 23, 2001 10:47:07 AM new
Hi Carole, I don't know what help you can get because I am not in that position, but if I were, I would start calling the state social services. They are listed (in CT) in the blue pages of the phone book. I would also call my local state representative because they are there to help YOU. They can point you in the right direction.
Good luck to you and I hope everything works out.
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njrazd
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:27:10 AM new
You may want to contact a family lawyer and get some legal help with regard to guardianship. If your daughter is not an unfit Mom, just overwhelmed, then there may be other things you can do.
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Muriel
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:31:04 AM new
All I can offer you is lots of prayers, and the advice that you might want to get a prescription for Xanax.
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HJW
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:45:09 AM new
I agree with Muriel.
Even though you are financially able to do this, it might be a
good idea to get your daughter connected to medicaid or some kind
of financial help, especially if she will be a single mother. It
will help a lot until she gets over this crisis.
Look under Family Services in the phone book and start dialing!
How much help you may be able to find may be determined by where
you live.
In any case, you deserve a medal of honor and many refills on your
prescription!
Helen
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december3
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posted on January 23, 2001 12:28:43 PM new
I noticed a lot of the churches where I used to live had what they called Mothers Day Out. For a very small fee about five dollars a child you could leave them for the day. You might want to check around for a similar program. You could also check with United Way. I used to volunteer at a low income day care funded by the United Way. (I don't see my grandkids nearly enough) Even if your husband does have a good income, you are in an unusual circumstance and they might work with you. Good Luck.
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IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 03:29:21 PM new
Thanks for your support!
My 22 yr old lives in Arkansas and I don't think she will qualify for Medicaid or Medicare...
I have thought of trying to get her on disability so she can stay home and take care of her boys (which she wants to do)..but that will take 2 yrs...
I hesitate to go to family services around here because they take the children and ask questions later.
7 yrs ago I had a nervous break down...I'm still on meds but everything is ok now. Haven't needed anything but my meds for 5 years. So I'm afraid they will take the boys from me as well if they look to deep...
I think if we become legal guardian then we have to support them and we make to much to qualify for any help and yet can't afford everything out of pocket....(kinda like falling between the cracks).
The 2 yr old that I'm getting has been showing signs of tremendous stress and I'd like to get him some therapy...wonder if they have any for his age?
One condition of our taking the boys is that my 22 yr old MUST attend at least ONE MONTH of support meetings at the local 'Women's abuse shelter'...
Guess we need to call a lawyer and see what he has to say regarding this...
Any other grandparents out there in our boat?
Thanks
Carole
(who turns 50 on Friday...
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gravid
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posted on January 23, 2001 05:02:02 PM new
GO see a lawyer right now. Find one who has experience in family law. Don't pay one to train him in a new area he is unfamiliar with at present. Find out what kind of documentation you need from your daughter allowing you to hang on to the boys and to be able to do things for them like give permission for medical treatment in an emergency. There are instruments like a limited power of attorney that can assign rights to act on her behalf in specific areas. The attorney will know how it works in your state.
You should get a tax break for them as dependants if you supply a certain percentage of their support. That is a seperate issue from custody. Seek advise on that also.
Having a lawyer who knows all the facts of your case will also be valuable if there ever is any problem with state agencies because while you are "unavailable" and you should have contingency plans to BE unavailable if need the need should occur, then he will be hitting the court with an order to stop action before too much can happen.
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rosiebud
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posted on January 23, 2001 05:25:08 PM new
IMLDS2 ~ I know this is a sore spot, but I do have a question....... isn't the father of these children involved with them?
It's been adviced that you seek an attorney's counsel on this, and it is a very good idea. Arkansas, sometimes, is just as good/bad as OK.. (hey neighbor, I use to live in Ft. Smith!).
Depending on circumstances .. marriage.. common law (in some states common law can be anywhere from 2-7 years together).. etc .. it's very possible that your daughter can not just "give" her children to you and/or her sister even as a temporary measure .. as the father of those children may have have the legal rights to take custody of them if his legal/common law wife/girlfriend will not or can not.
What might be a more viable aternative is that your daughter move in with you...... retain custody of all 4 children, continue working, and contribute money towards her outstanding bills as well as the care and support of her children. This would not necessarily stap you and your husband.. and it would not necessarily strap your daughter/s.. if you worked together. Also, with this step, you could "ween" her into taking sole responsibility of all four children without being overwhelmed or terrified.
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IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 05:59:46 PM new
The father of these children is mentally a teenager himself. He has a terrible background and won't be a problem as he's already been to court for 'child endangerment' in Ark.
I've never met anyone like him as he has absolutely NO IDEA why anyone is upset with anything he's done. He thinks it's everyone ELSES fault of course.
As for my daughter staying here..she desperately wants to keep her home..which she can do after he moves out. I think she was afraid he'd hurt/take the boys once he realizes it's over. She did say that she was afraid if she ever found anyone else(she's only 22..he's 31)he'd do something about it.
If we let her stay in her home she needs to claim the boys so she can get HUD and foodstamps (which she'll buy the boys food with)...she only makes 600 a month so she can't survive alone because her husband will feel NO GUILT or REMORSE as far as helping support the boys. You pressure him he'll just take off.
I know if it was MY children NO ONE would take them from me...I'd fight like a BEAR protecting her bearcubs. He is actually ok with it.
I know after they were married he told me he didn't see anything wrong with giving the kids to foster care if they ever needed to during hard times.!!!!!!!!(I told him over my dead body he would give them to strangers)
His Mom introduced him to drugs before 12yrs of age...and she died a few years ago because of drug abuse. His Dad died in prison.
My virginal 17 yr old daughter at the time felt sorry for him and thought she could change him. If she hadn't been so close to 18 I'd of had him put in jail for having sex with a minor. My daughter was one of those perfect (well...almost)...went to church regular..no smoking..no drinking...no drugs..no sex. Then she met HIM....
No one in my family has ever had trouble with the law...or the lifestyle we've seen in him. They have no friends because he walks in a room and you look at him and you KNOW he's obnoxious...unreal.
So I guess we'll call a family law person and get it all set up.
Thanks everyone!
Carole
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gravid
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:06:11 PM new
Find out what the statute of limitations is for statutory rape in your state. It is nice to have a BIG club just in reserve if he surprises you and causes trouble.
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rosiebud
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:23:02 PM new
IMLDS2 ~ I'm afraid I'm a little bit confused by your post.
If she wants to keep her home and qualify for assistance, she needs to claim her children ...... yet her children will be living with you and your other daughter?
That's kinda what I read and that's what I do not understand.
If I could be so forward... you have a lot of anger towards your son-in-law and what he did to your daughter and your grandchildren (not to mention what he's done to you as well). Many times abuse goes beyond the single person and affects an entire chain of people. Perhaps it might be beneficial if you, your husband, and your daughter go to counseling about this. It hasn't just effected your daughter..it's effected your entire family. It would also strengthen the support system that you already have.
Best Wishes,
An AR neighbor,
Rosie
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shar9
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:29:27 PM new
Carole,
I am not sure but I do know in our state that a person can make a fair amount of money and still be able to qualify for medicaid for their children. I also know that her children and maybe even her could qualify for medicaid and even making more sometimes there is just a copay of $5.00 per month. Meds and Drs visits are paid in full. The mother would not pay anything and if the children need "extra" help as you suggest at least one of the children might that they can get the help.
I also know in our state that children 4 and under qualify for a program called WIC and the income for a parent can be a fair salary and still qualify.
I love this program for children who need the formula, milk, eggs, cheese, cereal and there are some other things but there are so many children who don't get these products and need them.
They can also get their immunization shots.
If your daughter qualifies for food stamps I don't know why she would not qualify but I do know that you have to apply separately and people don't volunteer the information.
As far as anything else all I can offer is my sorrow that this happened to your daughter and the kids and your life will be upside down for a while and stressful but I am glad the kids have you and your husband.
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rawbunzel
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:32:40 PM new
Get that girl some birth control pills.
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rosiebud
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:52:30 PM new
IMLDS2 ~ in answer to some of your questions:
http://www.arkidsfirst.com/serv.htm
the DHS Division of Mental Health Services.
Also, you need to check out the root directory.. for AR Kids First... it's a resource, here in AR that has helped MANY people and not all states have this. I have no doubt, that OK would have the same services *as far as the DHS divisions* but maybe under different names ~ although your state does not have ArKids First ~ it might have a similiar program... and DHS would be the place to find out.
[ edited by rosiebud on Jan 23, 2001 07:39 PM ]
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fountainhouse
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posted on January 23, 2001 06:57:39 PM new
I'd definitely seek a lawyer's advice before doing anything.
What I'm having trouble comprehending is how your borderline-retarded 17-year-old daughter was able to develop a relationship with a 26-year-old man?! I assume this was on the QT (i.e. without your consent)?
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IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:15:09 PM new
Hmmm...hadn't thought about going to a support group myself...good idea!
This guy says he wants a 'baseball team'..of course he doesn't CARE that he can't provide for them. He is always saying he'll get a second job...then for one excuse or another he'll quit or be fired within a week or two.
I'll explain it this way...he was totally HAPPY making only $6. an hour. When he lucked on a job paying $8.65 an hour he 'confessed' to me he'd NEVER thought he'd EVER make that much money!
Yes, the kids will be living with us and my youngest daughter. Their mother will still claim them so she can keep her home with HUD..so when she is on her feet she will have a familiar place for them to come home to. (Otherwise at 600 a month she couldn't afford to live anywhere).
As far as taxes go, we don't care about that.
The kids are currently on Medicaid...but if they are living with us we probably make to much for them to continue on it and we can't afford the co pays--and other health related expenses that would be incurred.(The 8 mo old has a heart condition). Easy way to keep them on Medicaid is to let her claim them.(remember-we only live 30 minutes from her).
I'd forgotten about WIC..you are right..they get that! whew!
The 'incidence' happened in CA...but we live in OK now....don't think I could file that?
Also..so you know I'm NOT exaggerating...at the age of 28 he had sex with a 14yr old girl. SHE wanted it...SHE threw herself at him..he was told to leave Vegas and NEVER return or he'd be prosecuted. Not 3 months later and he had my daughter at 17!
With my own daughter he told me(and still does to this day) it wasn't rape because SHE was on top and SHE came on to him!...yep...he REALLY believes that. See's nothing wrong with any of it.
I could tell you more horror stories...I didn't ever imagine people like him existed.
Carole
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IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:35:10 PM new
Why was she seeing someone 28??? This was during the period of my breakdown..and my roomate had just committed suicide. My daughter had gone to dinner with my roomate(an RN)on Sunday evening and Monday she killed herself.
So this is where major GUILT comes in on my part. I was tooo self absorbed to realize she was so vunerable.
She started out giving this guy a ride home from their job at Taco Bell (I didn't know his age). She had a really nice 4 x 4 truck I'm sure he was attracked to. Within 6 weeks she was pregnant.
I had no idea what kind of person he was til it was too late. No idea how old he was as he doesn't act it.
I'll check out mental services for DHS in AR..
Thank you all so much for your comments. I'm so glad none of you has pointed a finger at me or made fun of the serious breakdown I had before.
Carole[bluebounc]
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rosiebud
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:38:53 PM new
IMLDS2 ~ there are a few problems with what you're proposing. First of all, it is fraudulent. If the mother claims them, in order to receive services (medicare, foodstamps, HUD, etc) the children MUST reside with her. By helping the way you are, you are, in all actuality, possibly hurting her more than anything. I am not saying this to be rude, a naysayer, or anything else. If your daughter, claims those children, in order to receive services, and those children do not reside with her...... then she can go to jail ~ be responsible for total repayment of ALL services rendered ~ etc. You are not doing her any favors by taking that type of action.
I understand that you're angry with your SIL for all he has done to your family. I understand you wanting to help your daughter, and do what is best for your grandchildren. But we also have to show our children what is legal and in doing so, we sometimes have to rethink things in order to do what is ultimately the best.
My fear, of this whole senario .. is that .. and it's not uncommon .. it varies from DHS office to DHS office..... that someone may checkup on her w/out notice. If there are no children there..... she loses everything. All it takes is for 1 person to report the fact that children don't live at the residence....... and she loses everything. And anyone, who signs and affadavites stating that your daughter resides there w/ 4 children, is also committing a crime. (These affadavites are part of receiving Foodstamps, and other services from DHS).
You need to rethink the plan that you have become a co-conspirator in... and decide if that really is the way you want to go. If it's really worth the risk. Your neck won't necessarily be on the line, but your daugher's certainly will.
edited to add:
Most services that would offer any type of respite care, would be run through DHS and it would be in the child/ren's name Because of your location, you would have to apply for that in an OK DHS office. Unfortunately, DHS cross references between states with many of it's programs. They'll check to see if someone is receiving services in CA, MD, NY, etc and if they are, they will not recieve additional services in a different state. They will then notify the original state and let them know that benefits are being applied for.
[ edited by rosiebud on Jan 23, 2001 07:49 PM ]
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gravid
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posted on January 23, 2001 07:47:56 PM new
When you first said that the father was mentally a teenager himself I figured that you were speaking of maturity. But after hearing more I have to ask how much you know of his history? He sounds like there is some deminished capacity there also. That will have a bearing on things. The lawyer might be interested in that - I would be sure to mention it.
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ours4you
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posted on January 23, 2001 09:08:07 PM new
I want to say that I admire you for taking on the responsibility! Raising children is such a demanding (and expensive) job even under the best circumstances.
I don't have any advice for you, I just want to commend you for doing such a good thing for your grandchildren.
God bless you!
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mybiddness
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posted on January 23, 2001 09:20:08 PM new
IMLDS2 - I read this earlier today and just have to say my heart really goes out to you and your whole family for what you're going through. I see lots of great ideas here and just want to throw a few more your way.
In Texas there are programs for children that are targeted early with learning disabilities. Your grandson's ADD may help him qualify. I think they start as early as 3 years. There's not a charge and it not only helps the kiddo get a head start but also gives the parents a little relief from 24/7. I don't know if your state has a similar program but it's worth checking into.
I'd also recommend counseling to help deal with all the stress of such a drastic life change. A good counselor can really help you get your ducks in a row - see things from the outside. If they're in family counseling they'll probably have some good ideas as to where else you might go for help. It might seem like an odd source for that kind of help but when I worked at a psychiatric institute they kept a lot of that kind of information available for patients in duress.
It sounds like you and your husband have both worked hard all your lives... I wouldn't think twice about taking whatever assistance you can find available for your daughter and grandkids.
You're a beautiful soul for taking in these grandchildren at this stage of your life. I'm sure you had other plans and I hope it all works out for you.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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IMLDS2
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:50:33 PM new
Wow...I didn't think about someone checking to see if the boys are there. It certainly would be simple to notice FOUR ADD BOYS are not running around...sigh.
I'll have to mention that to my daughter. And if she were to go to jail she would be eaten alive. She has a heart of gold.
Yes, he is deminished in his capacities..he even admits his brain is fried. He puffs out his chest and beams when he talks about the bad stuff.
First thing he did when he got on the internet is go to a chat room and a 10 yr old girl IQd him. Of COURSE he had to help her...she's having trouble with her folks(what is a 10 yr old doing in a heavy metal talk room with adults?)..and SHE contacts him first...(familiar story)..
I was hoping it was a cop posing as a girl.
In fact I think that is one of the reasons my daughter wanted the boys out of there..she is terrified they'll be taken from her because he neglects them.(Can't prove it..but I suspect he locks them in their rooms as soon as she leaves for work..so he can have fun with the ladies and girls on the internet).
Another thing you absolutely won't believe is that for years his brother wouldn't talk to him or have anything to do with him. Seems his brother was in jail and he had sex with his brothers wife.(And felt no remorse because SHE initiated it).
Don't worry..the boys have been checked and they haven't been molested.
I don't know if I have the energy to go thru all the stuff for special needs children. I had some of my own and it takes a lot out of you.
Thanks for letting me vent some of my feelings. I'd like you all to understand we are solid middle class..law abiding...people.
And yes..he's been in jail to...forget why.
Carole
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mrssantaclaus
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posted on January 23, 2001 11:58:01 PM new
My heart goes out to you also - the children are very lucky to have people who love them so much.
First, for your sanity invest in a collection of Barney tapes. It will buy you some free time when you need it. Teletubbies will work, too. They will watch those tapes over, and over, and over .....
If your daughter is retarded and the children are ADD it is quite possible that the whole family could qualify for social security disability benefits. I don't know a whole lot about it, but I have met several families who worked diligently to get their children "labeled" so they could collect. Unfortunately, unlike your case, it was not deserved ........
I have two older brothers who are hyperactive. One tell me he must avoid sugar at all costs. It makes him wild. AND he is an adult. Staying away from candy might help the children.
My best wishes go out to you. It will be a rough road, but one that is paved with love and kisses .... and isn't that the best kind?
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nanastuff
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posted on February 1, 2001 04:11:05 AM new
Hello grandma, I too am a grandmother of four. I have read and re-read this thread, and I feel I must chime in here. I was in a similiar situation (no need for detail). I would like to tell you some things that you may not want to hear; I am not trying to be rude to you, I promise. The first thing you need to do is to stop enabling your daughter; get her butt with you and HER children. It does not matter at this point what SHE wants. Those babies WANT their mommy, no matter how much they love you, and it does not matter which home they live in. As far as legalities, Rosibud hit it on the head. You and your daughter are asking for a lot of trouble. Once this is done (getting your daughter out of that situation and with you), there are many organizations to turn to for help; a number of them have already been mention here. For the sake of you, your husband, both of your daughters, and MOST important, for those babies, please hear what I am saying. My prayers are with you and your family. There are many other things I could say to you, but they will not be necessary if you just do this.
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kitsch1
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posted on February 1, 2001 05:32:24 AM new
IMLDS,
Surely your daughter would be able to get help paying for liscensed day care from the State? Have you considered getting a liscense to operate a day care in your home? If you do it that way she still has her hud home and foodstamps and the medicare and stuff. You could use some of the money (the day care money from the state) to defer expenses. The kids would still be in their Moms custody and they could go back home to her on her days off.
I'm very happy for your daughter and for her kids that she is getting away from this person.
Hang in there Super Grandma!
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nanastuff
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posted on February 1, 2001 05:40:35 AM new
kitsch1- The daughter is not getting away from the situation, just the children. We are talking about two states here.
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krs
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posted on February 1, 2001 06:12:55 AM new
When did she work at K-Mart?
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HJW
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posted on February 1, 2001 06:21:38 AM new
Nanastuff,
When I posted earlier on this topic, I was under the impression that
this was a temporary arrangement. IMLDS2 stated that the boys would
be with her for "awhile". I just assumed that she meant until the
daughter recovered from the divorce or whatever was happening.
If I was wrong about this, you have some sage advice. I believe that
if I were this grandmother, I would pack up the kids and take them to
the mother. While at the mother's house she could make sure that all
social services available were under control.
There are four children now. That number could increase.
Helen
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krs
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posted on February 1, 2001 06:56:57 AM new
Is the daughter who will take in the 3 and 4 year old kids the same daughter who you described as follows?
"My daughter has Hishimoto's disease...hearing impairment..severe learning disabilities. For her to work 8 hours would be the equivalence of you and I working a 16 hr day every day. She literally collapses when she gets home(she has lived in her own apartment for 2 months now! Doctors didn't think she'd be able to live on her own). She is smart enough to know she is different..and it frustrates the heck out of her. Recently severe stress related mental problems are surfacing for the first time.
She qualified for Social Security..but has decided to keep working at Walmart as long as she can handle it."
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