krs
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posted on February 12, 2001 10:54:05 PM new
Some Fault Bush Tax Cuts for Lean Days in Texas
Bush is hoping, no, he knows, that the American public at large hardly ever looks past their noses when considering the issues in question in the news. It's only in hindsight, after the fact, that the full impact of the promises that so many place their hopes in becomes too apparent to deny.
That's what's beginning to happen in Texas.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/12/politics/12TEXA.html
And Bush? well, he was quoted to say, when asked before this presidential election,
"I hope I'm not here to deal with it,"
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barrybarris
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posted on February 12, 2001 11:47:14 PM new
Krs,
For you a Bush Roast, or in the Biblical sense, a Burning Bush.
Just for fun...
Barry (that's all) Barris
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gravid
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posted on February 13, 2001 03:08:16 AM new
Better be carefull Barry - in a world where you are thrown out of school for going bang, bang with a chicken finger your disclaimer may not be enough and they may arrest you for planning a weenie roast.
Used to be that nobody could bare a weapon before the King. We are getting again to the point that intent does not matter. Being CAPABLE of harming the government is enough to have them act against you.
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snowyegret
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posted on February 13, 2001 03:56:37 AM new
ROTFLMAO, Barry(it doesn't get any better than that!)Barris
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2001 06:41:00 AM new
....that the American public at large hardly ever looks past their noses when considering the issues in question in the news.
That is certainly a true statement, and one I think a lot of politicians count on. People are too busy trying to keep up with their daily routines, let alone find the time to study the issues, do the research necessary to at least try to make an informed decision.
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krs
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posted on February 13, 2001 08:22:37 AM new
Huh? Linda, stopit! We cannot agree!
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HJW
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posted on February 13, 2001 08:28:12 AM new
Yes, Linda_k!
Such as the fact that the top 1% of taxpayers pay 21% of all taxes but will get 43% of the tax cut...twice their share.
Apparently, a lot of people don't realize this.
Helen
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krs
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posted on February 13, 2001 08:48:43 AM new
Right,
If you work for your money, you don't get a tax break. consider:
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0209-04.htm
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HJW
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posted on February 13, 2001 09:07:36 AM new
Unfortunately, I will be busy "trying to keep up with my daily routine" for the next couple of hours so I may miss your response
to this observation.
Before I go the the grocery store, I would like to add to my
previous post that, According to The Wall Street Journal, a middle-management couple with two kids making $180,000 a year would get a $2,000 tax break, but the $18,000-a-year worker with wife and two kids would get nothing.
Besides ignorance of the tax cut issue, I discovered yesterday
a person "so busy keeping up with their daily routine" that they
didn't realize that there are circumstances beyond our control that play a part in all of our lives. This individual truly believed that the poor are responsible for their poverty.
Can you believe that?
Helen
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hopefulli
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posted on February 13, 2001 09:52:28 AM new
I didn't realize that we were dividing everything up into equal shares, but if that is the case, consider that the top 1% do not get their "fair share" of services for their money either. Their taxes go into the same pool as the rest of our taxes, for funding various projects-some of which they cannot avail themselves of because of income limitations. They drive on the same roads as the rest of us, but they pay more mile for mile.
Considering that a family of 4 with an income of $18,000 currently has a zero tax liability, while the $180,000 family pays $41,000, this example is disingenuous.
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2001 09:53:07 AM new
krs - Linda, stopit! We cannot agree! Well, you've heard the saying "one in a million"...maybe that applies here. 
and If you work for your money, you don't get a tax break Some work with their bodies, some with their minds[/i]
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Linda_K
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posted on February 13, 2001 10:04:59 AM new
Hopefulli - You're a breath of fresh air. You made many good points. The point you make about the very low income people not paying any taxes, has been stated many times. Some just aren't willing to explain why they feel when one doesn't pay taxes, they are entitled to receive a tax cut.
We do live in a Capitalistic society not a socialistic one.
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krs
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posted on February 13, 2001 10:57:37 AM new
"They drive on the same roads as the rest of us, but they pay more mile for mile".
What nonsense!
Why? Because you assume that they drive expensive cars? Guess you don't know about the Petty family Yugo. And even if they do, do you somehow imagine that a new Mercedes gets fewer miles per gallon than a 1974 Buick Electra running on six cylinders?
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xellil
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:01:49 AM new
It doesn't matter what car they drive -- a person who pays $50,000 in taxes is paying for more roads than a person who pays $1000 in taxes.
nc
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HJW
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:14:47 AM new
The 18,000 income is below average and not a good example to use in illustrating my point. Nevertheless, the tax is not equitable.
The Constitution gives Congress the power to collect taxes to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and the general welfare--not to give it to the rich.
Helen
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hopefulli
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:15:02 AM new
Thanks for clarifying that for me xellil. It has nothing to do with the kind of car they drive or their gas mileage.
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hopefulli
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:22:17 AM new
Helen, your right, what would be equitable would be for the $18,000 family to pay $1,800 and the $180,000 to pay $18,000. Is this better?
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Antiquary
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:24:47 AM new
Gee, maybe we could all work together to get a bill passed that will specify through positioned placques exactly how many miles of roadway we've funded. Then we could all set up little toll boths to recover the costs and of course keep the indigent riffraff off of them.
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xellil
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:35:03 AM new
No, we just want the rich people to pay for everything -- we don't want them to (heaven forbid) get acknowledged for it.
nc
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Antiquary
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:41:57 AM new
Well, the people who I know that could be considered rich by today's standards don't give a flip about acknowledgement. The problem is more about some of the middle class who want to try to paint themselves as both a success and victim of our government at the same time. That's a difficult contradiction to juggle.
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HJW
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posted on February 13, 2001 11:45:37 AM new
hopefulli
No, I think that they probably need food stamps.
Helen
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hopefulli
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posted on February 13, 2001 12:11:52 PM new
Helen, you are no doubt right that someone in that income bracket might require assistance. The point was they are paying no tax to begin with so they can't go below zero with a tax cut. Of course, the argument could be made that the government assistance in essense does bring their tax liability below zero. For the record, I am not against this assistance, just the perception that the rich aren't paying their share.
And no where did I insinuate that "rifraff" should be excluded from the highways.
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xellil
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posted on February 13, 2001 01:14:09 PM new
Antiquary, I have never discussed with any of the rich people I know whether they want acknowledgment or not.
However, I DO know that without their tax dollars there would be no roads for anyone to drive on, whether they are "riffraff" or the greedy, tax-evading rich people.
Well, maybe a dirt road here and there...
nc
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zilvy
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posted on February 13, 2001 01:23:14 PM new
This is all beginning to make sense....time to up the medication!!
[ edited by zilvy on Feb 13, 2001 01:24 PM ]
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HJW
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posted on February 13, 2001 01:36:49 PM new
Zilvy
Stop thinking! That can kill you.
Helen
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Antiquary
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posted on February 13, 2001 02:26:03 PM new
xellil,
Of course no one really likes to pay taxes, but I do object to the rich being stereotyped as much as I do the poor and unfortunate. Unless one has some basis to assume that a significant majority of the wealthy feel that their tax burden is oppressive and they wish some public recognition for their contributions, then I am disinclined to recognize its validity based upon my personal observations. There are those who subscribe to Malcolm Forbes' quip that whoever has the most toys when he dies wins but then there are also quite a few who make it a practice to divest themselves of some of those toys during their lifetime.
I also have no problem with those who are pleased to receive a reduction in their taxes and say so honestly rather than trying to justify the fact by attempting to prove that it is either because they deserve it because of their innate superiority or the will of God. Neither do I see Bush's tax cut as resulting in any significant reduction in the role of government in our lives, nor will we ultimately pay any less. In fact, I believe that in the long-term rather the opposite will be the case.
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Antiquary
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posted on February 15, 2001 05:05:35 PM new
A considerable number of America's wealthiest are now beginning to speak up about their views on taxes and the society.
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/archive/20010215/news/current/sophisticated.htx?source=htx/http2_mw
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dejavu
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posted on February 15, 2001 06:04:38 PM new
I am confused..............please clarify for me what YOU earn and what you pay in actual taxes. I really would like to see some data here...................
This is a challenge.
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dejavu
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posted on February 15, 2001 06:08:01 PM new
By the way, before you judge, my son who is 17 actually had to pay taxes this year.
Was he pissed off?
YOU BET! He is not ALLOWED TO VOTE but has to pay for tyhe priviledge of someone else to do so.
My ears ARE ringing. How does anyone explain that inequity?
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enchanted
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posted on February 15, 2001 06:09:55 PM new
wouldn't the family that earned $18,000 a year qualify for and receive the "earned income tax credit" which essentially produces a large tax refund (i.e. subsidy) even if the family owes no taxes otherwise. So Bush's tax plan would and could affect this family depending on how his tax plan treats this particular tax credit.
I counted on and needed that money as a 'working poor' single Mom. Fortunately I don't need it anymore.
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