posted on May 29, 2001 11:19:38 AM new
If someone else had posed this question, I probably wouldn't answer.
I'm not for organ transplants, but then again I've never needed one. If I or any of my family needed a transplant, I'd probably change my tune really quick.
As far as selling an organ for money, I suppose if I was starving or my family was, it's a possibility. But this isn't India. What was the person selling it to be used for? Is this their way of harvesting organs there?
posted on May 29, 2001 11:51:49 AM new
I had a relative die last year while on the waiting list for a liver. I realize you can't sell your liver and expect to retire for long on the profits, but I do wish they could have found him a donor.
My mind tells me go ahead and take the organs you can and save others, my heart tells me I don't want you using my wife/baby/mother as a spare parts container.
When someone has just died the heart has a strong voice, and I would think ill of any doctor pressuring a grieving family member for their loved one's organs.
No need to point out my hypocracy I see it also, and I can't understand myself. The mind and heart disagree at times and both should be listened to.
posted on May 29, 2001 11:57:03 AM new
Hi Kraftdinner,
I started a thread on this very subject on 3/21/01 entitled "Organ Donation...".
I was very pleased with the responses, and surprised that so many in our little chat community have firsthand knowledge, either themselves or family members or friends.
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If someone else had posed this question, I probably wouldn't answer.
If you care to answer, mtnmama, I am very curious why you would not answer this question if posed by someone else?
posted on May 29, 2001 12:42:36 PM new
Sorry femme.....I didn't see your thread , but I'll look for it (thanks!). Maybe this has been rehashed before, but it's something I've thought about since I watched the documentary.
Especially the part about the people from India selling their kidneys. I think they received about $10,000.00, which would be more than they'd ever see in a lifetime - making asking them a sure thing. Some people were rejected for transplant and were crying & begging to be re-tested. I thought it was very sad, but the people thought it was an important service and nobody felt victimized.
I'm not positive, but I thought the organs were being sold to the Arab countries, and not to hospitals.
(spelling)
[ edited by kraftdinner on May 29, 2001 12:44 PM ]
posted on May 29, 2001 01:02:58 PM new
I've thought about this for a while. If something were to happen to me, I would like to know that part of me would live on. If I could save a child's sight, or give a person my heart so that he/she could live, I would do it. I would not become immortal because of donating, but it would seem so. If a member of my family needed an organ donation, I would hope that someone else felt this way too.
posted on May 29, 2001 01:03:31 PM new
I am listed as an organ donor and have been for years. Last year a friend of mine had a baby who had no chance of survival but whose organs were perfect. She refused to have him be a donor - which saddened me. I think it not only could have saved other infants, it could also have been a source of comfort for her. But, I in no way pressured her. I do feel it is a personal decision.
If a person lives in dire poverty and are offered a sum of money that would let their family live well in their country for the rest of their lives then so be it, providing it is something the person wants to do. What if someone offered you a million dollars for a kidney?
posted on May 29, 2001 01:16:15 PM new
What do I need my "spare parts" for if Im dying or died? Why not let someone else have it? What am I going to do with them, since Im dead or dying? With that mindset, may as well bury me with my favorite clothes, jewelry, photos, etc. Not.
Yes, Im curious too, why mtnmama wouldnt answer if someone else asked the question. Do tell.
[ edited by hepburn on May 29, 2001 01:17 PM ]
posted on May 29, 2001 01:45:44 PM new
I'm all for the transplantation of organs, and why shouldn't a donor receive payment for one? The transplanting hospitals certainly receive money for the organs--a great deal of money. Not only do the recipient and the recipients insurance pay, but federal agencies support transplant centers and the centers compete for organs in order to keep themselve above the qualifying limits in number of procedures performed per year to receive those funds.
By the way, it is now possible to be a liver donor and live; part liver transplants are being performed in some cases.
posted on May 29, 2001 01:55:07 PM new
I can understand how a person might feel funny about donating their loved one's organs and tissue. But if you genuinely believe that there is more to a human than simply their body, you must realize that you are not giving away the important part of them, merely the container.
If we can get so fired up about saving the rain forests, or spotted frogs, why not other humans, when it is in our power? This is recycling at it's finest.
I realize that many religions forbid this, but I strongly believe that God would not have given science this knowledge if he didn't intend us to use it. As for payment, why not? However, we have to realize that payment to the donor will be passed on to the donee, making it that much more expensive for them. It's kind of like the difference between putting your stuff in a garage sale and giving it to chairty-whatever makes you feel better. I personally would like to leave this world as a giver, not a seller.
posted on May 29, 2001 03:34:36 PM new
I was surprised to learn that the sale of human organs, either from a living person or a cadaver is against the law in nearly every country with Iran being the only exception.
Of course, there is a black market and organ brokers make arrangements for travel to countries such as Israel , Russia, India, Turkey, China, Russia and Irag...where organs, although illegal, are in good supply for the right price. Laws are not inforced and doctors are not afraid to lose their license while doing business in these countries.
There is an ethical question about the practice of buying from living donors and it is considered by many people to be morally and ethicaly irresponsible. The problem is that it places a price on life which only the wealthy can afford. Health care should be available to everyone, rich or poor.
One problem with living donors in the black market system is that the profit goes to the doctors, the hospital, the nurses and of course the recipient, while the donor gets very little, sometimes as little as 800.00. The cost of a blackmarket transplant is around 150,000.
My question is, with the abundance of organs available, why do you think that so many people are dying for lack of a transplant.
Apparently, the answer is money.
posted on May 29, 2001 04:02:38 PM new
To satisfy the curiosity of at least two of you, I said that because I know by the poster that this is not a troll thread. No other reason.
posted on May 29, 2001 04:10:55 PM new
Helen, money is a factor, but there are not that many organs available. The donors had to be in fairly decent medical shape pre brain death/death, and then there is the problem of tissue matching. I'm not sure if this is still so, but the most typical donor used to be a youngish motor vehicle accident victim.
posted on May 29, 2001 04:26:45 PM new
I just read the article, and it really raised some flags for me, expecially the part about cyclosporin making transplants not much harder (match wise) than a blood transfusion. Thanks for posting it.
posted on May 29, 2001 04:56:08 PM new
Thank you mtnmama for your answer. I figured that was it, but wasnt sure. Hard to tell body language in written words.
posted on May 29, 2001 07:59:48 PM newwhat are the moral issues involved in selling an organ we can live without?
If I could purchase a organ to save a loved one I would. If I couldn't purchase an organ to save a loved one I'd feel the patients with the greatest need deserved attention first.
posted on May 29, 2001 08:11:20 PM new
I think that if a member of my family was in need of money desperately, I would probably sell a kidney to help them. But who knows until we are really faced with that decision? No one has even asked to buy my organs, so I don't know what I really would do.
Then again, if a member of my family needed my kidney or part of my liver, I can't see NOT giving it to them. But just for money for the sake of money? I don't think so. When I'm finished, anyone can have them, but not until then.
As for the morals involved in selling tissues and organs, that's a very personal decision. I never condemmed the other kids in college when they sold blood to pay tuition, but I never had the urge to do it myself. But if selling blood kept a future teacher or doctor in school, more power to them. I can't see why anyone would condemn them for that, and it's essentially the same thing.
posted on May 29, 2001 08:16:15 PM new
This subject is very close to home for me. My 18y.o. has cronic renal problems and will one day need a transplant, and I have to say that from a parents point of view I would sell my soul to the devil himself to save my child.
I do not agree with the rich fat cats buying a kidney or liver ect., from poor impoverished countries, but I can understand the desperation of loving someone so much and knowing that without that organ you are going to lose him/her. A lot of you may not understand my feelings and my disagree with me, but unless you have been put in a position of seeing your child suffer in so much pain don't even bother to argue with me on this subject.
Of course the best solution for transplantation would be to have a family member to donate an organ, but that is not always possible. I have seen young and old go through gut wrenching pain because they have had to wait for a donor and some of them don't make it. This is a subject that the whole world should know about, and we should have more education from a young age about such an important issue as organ donation, because you just never know when it may affect you or your family.
Once your brain is dead the rest of your organs are of absolutely no use to you what so ever, but they can be of use to the woman down the road or the little boy next door, who have little or no chance of life with out them.
posted on May 29, 2001 10:09:35 PM new
Hepburn & Becky, thank you. I did not post for sympathy, because we do not need sympathy. I posted to show that there is a very real need for organ donations. A lot of everyday families like mine are suffering because of the lack of understanding about organ donations. My child is not at the stage where she needs a transplant tomorrow, but we know the day is just around the corner for us.
In our case we will more than likely be luckier than a lot because she still does have a functioning kidney, but it has already had surgery on it when she was 4 and the doctors do not know how much strain it can take. We do know one of her brothers' is a match. The only hitch with that is that we can not take from him, and he can not sign the forms until he is older. At present he is only 16 so we just hope that nothing major happens in the next few years.
I wear a donor badge and if anyone asks me about it, I am sure they are sorry after I have finished. Because I tend to push the point about this issue. I can not help it, I think everyone should carry a donor card, and I also think we should let our close family members know of our wishes so that they are prepared if and when the time comes for organ harvesting.
Becky I hope you Father in Law doesn't have too long a wait for transplant. Good Luck.
posted on May 29, 2001 10:30:40 PM new
uaru, I don't think you're being hypocritical at all. We can only imagine what we think we'd do in certain situations, so it's a difficult question for anyone to answer.
It's situations like yours nettak that make me wonder why organ donations aren't more common than they are now. What's the hold-up? It must be scarey for your whole family, but if you have faith in the positive, it somehow works out. Here's a BIG hug for you!
One more thing......something krs said earlier bothers me. How much do organs sell for amongst hospitals? Who gets this money?
posted on May 29, 2001 11:00:31 PM new
I also saw what KRS wrote, I did not comment on it because I am not sure how things are done in America. Here in Australia we have free hospitals all around the country, in every capital city there are different public hospitals that are geared towards different types of transplants. If you do not have private health cover you can go to the public hospital and get the same level of care as a private patient would get, the only difference is that you don't get to choose your doctor and you are put in a ward with maybe 6 others if you are a public patient. But having said that the doctors' that work in our public hospitals are some of the best in the world, and a lot of them actually have private clinics and give there time free to the public system.
The specialist that my daughter attends is through a private clinic and is supposed to be the best in Australia, but she is also in charge of the biggest renal unit for the public hospital system in Australia.
I do not see what is wrong with our tax funded dollars being spent on something as important as medical research and transplants units. It is a better choice in my opinion than spending it on shooting galleries for herion users and the likes.
Something else KRS mentioned is the live liver donor, he is very correct and you can indeed be a live donor, by the doctor taking a small amount of your liver and transplanting it into the recipient. The liver can regenerate itself.
I have never heard of a donor organ being sold in the hospital system, but that does not mean to say it has not happened. I guess if you have enough money you can get just about anything. We have a very high profile business man here in Australia, called Kerry Packer. Mr Packer suffered from cronic renal failure not too long ago, and it is said that he paid his helicopter pilot to donate one of his kidney's. The Packer family and the pilot say that they are close friends and that the pilot wanted to help his old mate, but I have to admit I am still wondering about this particular issue. I really do think it is a big possibility that the family paid this employee to donate the organ. After all they can afford it, the Packers' are one of the wealthest families in the world.
posted on May 30, 2001 06:57:44 AM new
Kudos to Australia on the public hospitals.
It seems instead of fighting a winning battle against disease and death, our American politicians instead choose to fight a losing battle against drugs.
Imagine the possibilities if all that money were put to use on a free hospital system such as in Australia? Now that would be amazing!
posted on May 30, 2001 02:19:36 PM new
I HAVEN'T READ THE ARTICLE, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE ORGANS SHOULD BE SOLD FOR PROFITS.
THREE WEEKS AGO WE WERE TOLD MY HUSBAND NEEDS A NEW HEART, RE: HEART TRANSPLANT. ONLY 10% OF HIS HEART IS PUMPING OUT..WE WERE SHOCKED.I MYSELF AM AN ORGAN DONOR, & WOULD GLADLY GIVE MY HEART IF I COULD. WE HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND IF HE WILL MAKE UNTIL THEN. THE ONLY MONEY INVOLVED WILL BE HOW MUCH IT WILL COST AND IF WE WILL RECEIVE HELP. MY HUSBAND HAS WORKED HARD ALL OF HIS LIFE & BELIEVES IN PROVIDING FOR HIS FAMILY, THIS IS GETTING TO HIM BAD. HE IS ONLY 56..
SORRY IF THIS ISN'T THE FORMAT FOR THIS, BUT I HAVE NO ONE TO TALK TO ABOUT THIS AND THOUGHT I WOULD JUST VENT A LITTLE.
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING,
I MEAN NO HARM,
HAVE A JOYFUL DAY
VELMA ~ AKA BELA143
posted on May 30, 2001 05:47:28 PM new
Nice to meet you bela143 . I am so sorry about your sad news. I'll pray for your husband. I'm not sure if God hears me sometimes, but I'll do my best
posted on May 30, 2001 05:59:50 PM new
Hello bela143, of course this is the place for you to vent. You can yell and scream all you like and we will listen and try and help you through this tough time in your life. I will be thinking of you and your husband.
Let us know how you are going. Do you know if there is a support group close to you, most of the hospitals have family support units, and these people have all been through or are going through the same things as your family are so it might help you if you could get in contact with a group through your hospital.
, but I'll look for it (thanks!). Maybe this has been rehashed before, but it's something I've thought about since I watched the documentary.
