posted on June 8, 2001 08:50:00 AM new
Everyone..
Just another reminder to refrain from making personal comments and to address the subject.
Thank you for your co-operation.
I wouldn't read too much into it. twinsoft has no way of knowing who I sleep with. In light of this, I can only conclude that his comment I don't rag on you because of your sexual orientation is merely an expression of jealousy over the fact that I have a sexual orientation.
posted on June 8, 2001 09:24:11 AM new
twinsoft..
Your remarks to and about Spaz are insulting, and violate the AuctionWatch Community Guidelines. This is a warning and a reminder to you that if you continue to post in this manner, your posting privileges could be in jeopardy. Thank you for your co-operation.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:07:07 PM new
You know how they say there's a fine line between genius and madness? Could it be that there's another fine line between terrorists and politicians?
Consider it. The McVeighs, the Kaczinsky's, the Arab terrorists, ... they all kill people in the name of a political agenda. How many people have our politicians killed for the same reason? The difference being that our politicians do it within the boundaries of laws that they themselves create. And according to doctrines of war that they themselves approve.
And war is only the most obvious example. How many people die due to prolonged exposure to certain political policies, such as lack of medical insurance coverage? Or because they can't afford prescription drugs?
When you think of all the potential damage politicians can do -- especially the one who's in the driver's seat at the moment -- who should we really fear more? The McVeighs of the world, or the ones we elect to office?
posted on June 8, 2001 12:15:18 PM new
The death penalty is gruesome? I'll tell you what's gruesome. Here in New York, a couple weeks ago, police arrested a guy for killing and dismembering a man who lived in a housing project. The freak took the body parts and scattered them around the neighborhood, tucking them under hedges here and there (although the head was found in a bag beneath the kitchen sink.
What brought on this act of depraved brutality?
The killer wanted the guy's apartment.
That is gruesome.
It's also gruesome to think my tax dollars will go towards keeping this monster alive.
By the way, he blew kisses at the camera when the cops took him away.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:16:17 PM new
To an extent that's true, but it's a dangerous game because you're not so much as defining politicians down as you are defining terrorists down. Making them more palatable. I cringe when I hear people say about McVeigh "well, he had some good points".
Yes, the concept that our gov't may be heading slightly over the line is a valid point (and may have already done so) but there should be nothing that one learns from McVeigh and those like him and their actions.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:27:22 PM new
Oops, sorry, james. Didn't mean to imply that I think McVeigh has even a molecule of credibility. Or justification.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:28:20 PM new
BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- A Belgian jury sentenced four Rwandans, including two Roman Catholic nuns, to prison terms ranging from 12 to 20 years Friday after convicting them of homicide in the 1994 massacres in their African homeland.
Benedictine nun Sister Gertrude received a 15-year sentence for her role in the massacre of some 7,000 people seeking refuge at her convent in southern Rwanda. Another nun, Sister Maria Kisito, received a 12-year sentence.
Alphonse Higaniro, a businessman, received a 20-year sentence, and university professor Vincent Ntezimana was ordered jailed for 12 years.
The prosecution had sought life sentences for all four.
The two men were accused of helping plan and carry out killing of members of Rwanda's Tutsi minority during the 13-week genocide in 1994.
More than 500,000 people were killed in 100 days of killing organized by the former Hutu government of Rwanda. Tutsi-led rebels stopped the genocide in July 1994 when they seized control of the country.
``You will hear calls for clemency from the defense team,'' chief prosecutor Alain Winants told the jury. ``I ask you, Did the victims receive any gestures of clemency or pity? No, none at all.''
Prosecutors claimed the two nuns helped the Hutu mob that repeatedly attacked Tutsis seeking shelter at the Sovu convent in the green hills of southern Rwanda.
Witnesses told the court the two nuns called in militias to clear the Tutsis from the convent grounds. They were accused of supplying gasoline to the mob that burned some 500 people to death as they cowered in the convent's garage, and of guiding the killers to the hiding places of doomed Tutsi men, women and children.
---------------------------------------------
Now there's justice.
[ edited by jamesoblivion on Jun 8, 2001 12:31 PM ]
posted on June 8, 2001 12:33:24 PM new
I wasn't attempting to define terrorists down. I was trying to define our politicians "up" (does that make any sense?), to point that some of them are monsters of a more refined variety, and with a greater potential and ability to inflict pain, suffering, and death than terrorists.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:36:45 PM new
I understand and agree with both of you. Kissinger and whatshisname (McSomething?) are two of the biggest terrorists of all time.
Listen to the Black Sabbath song 'War Pigs'. Never thought I'd find a socail message in Black Sabbath, but hey, whattaya know.
The only thing is, I have heard rumblings from people who seem to be absorbing McVeigh's point and I find that disturbing.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:43:20 PM new
spaz - But we, the people, elect those politicians. We make our decisions by judging how closely their morals, political leanings, etc. correspond with our own. (Since our system doesn't allow us each individual votes on every issue that needs a decision made.) I don't think any of us see the people we vote into office as 'monsters', otherwise we wouldn't do so.
But the McVeighs of the world, seem to come out of the woodwork and surprise us. We don't have the same control over the choices they make, we can only react to what they've done after the fact. So, to me, I fear them more.
Humans are stupid that way. If something is repeated often enough, no matter how stupid, there are some who will start to believe it, who will give it attention and lend it credibility even though it deserves none. I'd describe them as sheep, but it would be insulting to the woolly tribe.
posted on June 8, 2001 12:44:08 PM new
He looks so like anybody's brother. That doesn't help me a bit.
I just think EVERY life is valuable and two wrongs do not make a right. Killing him is revenge since we KNOW he can be prevented from ever doing it again.
I honestly don't want him to die. He's confused, he is blinded and in darkness. I don't believe he is inherently evil. Something got him rationalizing on the wrong track and he did a REALLY REALLY stupid thing that killed a lot of innocent people.
Revenge is not the right thing to do. He must be made to understand WHY what he did was wrong.
T
posted on June 8, 2001 12:54:49 PM new We make our decisions by judging how closely their morals, political leanings, etc. correspond with our own
Some do, but most don't. Most people are stupid. They vote on the basis of who "looks" trustworthy, or who makes a good impression on camera, or who has the most clever sound byte. They vote on the basis of advertising -- take John Corzine's candidacy in New Jersey. Nobody had ever heard of multimillionaire John Corzine till he came out of the blue with an advertising budget that nobody could match and literally (in my opinion anyway) assailed the public with television advertising. Every commercial break, sometimes two spots in one break -- for six MONTHS prior to the election!
Guess what? John Corzine won.
Billionaire Michael Bloomberg is taking the same approach to win the mayor's office in New York. No experience in politics, but he's got the bucks to buy the advertising (read brainwashing) and probably buy the office.
Your statement is a nice ideal, Linda, but it doesn't fly in reality. Hell, look at who's President right now. Most of us didn't elect him into office.
posted on June 8, 2001 01:12:46 PM new
An adulterous, condemed to die by law was brought before Jesus, He was asked what should they do. He replied, "who is without out sin among you and can cast the first stone?" She was set free and her told her, "Go sin no more.".
In Christianity, sin is sin, is sin, is sin. I am as guilty as Timothy McVeigh compared to the awesome holiness of God. The Bible says "ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
Salvation comes not by deeds but by the saving blood of the sacrifice which was made through Jesus Christ. NO ONE can even come close to sinlessness. Not me, not Tim McVeigh.
If he dies, I deserve death also by heavenly standard. If I could, I would tell Tim McVeigh about salvation and that God loves him and wants his repentance and has given him the gift of eternal life though his Son Jesus Christ.
T
posted on June 8, 2001 01:13:55 PM new
People are only changed by LOVE.
Never by hate.
T
Jesus quoted it in Matthew 5:38-39:
[b]You have heard that it was said, "AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
""But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.[/b]
[ edited by jt on Jun 8, 2001 01:17 PM ]
posted on June 8, 2001 01:16:56 PM new
My heart feels just the way you explained things jt, but there's a side of me that thinks I might not feel this way if one of my loved ones were lost in the bombing.
I also hate the death penalty too Helen, but with some of the instances stated, I just don't know what else you can do with these people except lock them up for life at the expense of the taxpayers. To most people, this just doesn't seem final enough.
posted on June 8, 2001 01:18:19 PM new
So really about your money and your peace of mind?
T
I have no idea how I would feel if it were my child...but I would still know what Jesus said. I have been the victim of a violent crime, though I came out with my life. It took me a long time, but I can pray for my attacker.
[ edited by jt on Jun 8, 2001 01:20 PM ]
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