jamesoblivion
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:19:26 PM new
That story doesn't show that Jesus would have advocated sparing a mass murderer his due punishment. You'll agree, I'm sure, that the woman's sin and McVeigh's aren't remotely comparable.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:21:38 PM new
Killing him is revenge since we KNOW he can be prevented from ever doing it again.
Now how in the heck can we know that he can be prevented from ever doing it again??? Ever head of escaped convicts committing the same type of crime again?
Revenge is not the right thing to do. He must be made to understand WHY what he did was wrong.
You really think you'd wanna "teach" this murderer why what he did was wrong if it was your kid - family member, friend, etc.??
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:25:22 PM new
"Bad, Bad Timmy!! Now you sit in the corner and think about how you killed innocent people, little kids - And don't you get up until you say you're sorry"!
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:26:11 PM new
Kraftdinner,
If we start putting a price on human life
then we will be in deep trouble.
Cost to lock a deviant person up should not be cited as an excuse to kill another human being.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:28:57 PM new
*ahem* s'cuse me jt, but does this ring a bell ..... "How well do you know your neighbors"? I really don't think Jesus would like you condemning child molestors.
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spazmodeus
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:29:43 PM new
That story doesn't show that Jesus would have advocated sparing a mass murderer his due punishment.
The authors of the Bible, like those who wrote the Constitution, were woefully shortsighted when it came to foreseeing the challenges of the future.
(And don't you nitpick me about Revelation, lol)
[ edited by spazmodeus on Jun 8, 2001 01:30 PM ]
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:34:58 PM new
bobbi355
Being aware of child molesters in your neighborhood does not equate to killing for revenge.
Would you be in favor of killing child molesters also?
Helen
[ edited by Hjw on Jun 8, 2001 01:35 PM ]
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spazmodeus
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:36:49 PM new
I'd kill them in a heartbeat.
[ edited by spazmodeus on Jun 8, 2001 01:37 PM ]
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:39:53 PM new
Spaz,
"The authors of the Bible, like those who wrote the Constitution, were woefully shortsighted when it came to foreseeing the challenges of the future."
So, why did you ask the question about an eye for an eye if you already know the answer?
Helen
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:43:58 PM new
If it was any of my kids or grandkids, you bet I would - and then I'd sit in the penn for the rest of my life.
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spazmodeus
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:44:31 PM new
It wasn't a question.
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 01:58:53 PM new
Well, maybe we could just march everyone out of jail, all those worthless people costing millions of dollars to maintain, some even not guilty... and shoot them...think of how much money that would save the taxpayers.
I realize that you will fault this idea as an exaggeration, but exactly where would you draw the line. How many people do you believe deserve to die.
Helen
Punctuation ed.
[ edited by Hjw on Jun 8, 2001 02:01 PM ]
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:06:08 PM new
I see your point Helen, I really do. And I really don't know where to draw the line. My brain says, if it was wrong for McVeigh to kill, then why is it right for us to kill him - but then the other part of me wants him dead for what he did.
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:20:47 PM new
I understand that feeling, Bobbi355.
I just can't see how murder is ever justified either by a criminal or by the United States of America.
If we based our actions on emotion and executed everyone who in our estimation deserved to die there would be a killing field of unimaginable size.
Helen
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:26:11 PM new
Helen - You said, "I just can't see how murder is ever justified either by a criminal or by the United States of America."
So would the people that the US were responsible for killing during a time of war be against your beliefs too? Or are you just referring to the death penalty?
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:34:51 PM new
Linda_K
My remark was related to the topic under discussion, the death penalty.
Like you and most reasonable people, I would like to eliminate war. Heaven help me if I were a soldier because I have some difficulty even stepping on an ant. 
Helen
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:35:12 PM new
spaz - I agree that money talks and can 'buy' one an election. But has it ever been different, other than maybe when our country was first founded? Either the canidate has the money or his backers do. And when they win, they owe favors.
It's a known fact that each election fewer and fewer people vote. Many reasons why. And, IMO, until the system is changed, we all have to read and educate ourselves and vote for the person who represents our wishes the best. What else is there to do?
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Linda_K
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:37:24 PM new
Thank you Helen, for clearing that up for me.
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jt-2007
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:52:42 PM new
Jesus would like you condemning child molestors.
No, but I am sure he would not oppose my avoiding sending them to spend the night.
As for the Bible being outdated, I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and it therefore vailid from the alpha to the omega.
I simply stated my opinion on the topic, gave my reasons for holding that view, and have no desire to derail the thread nor to argue my point until the end of the age. 
Disagreeing is A-OK with me.
T
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jt-2007
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posted on June 8, 2001 02:58:00 PM new
"but then the other part of me wants him dead for what he did."
That's the human part bobbi. It happened in Genesis, and it still happens now. No one is beyond that feeling in some form at some time.
T
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:34:06 PM new
I'm a bit late to respond, but if you're talking to me Terri, then yes, I think to most people, keeping a person in jail for the rest of their life is not the punishment that death is, plus it's a money burden.
If U.S. tax dollars weren't spent on housing criminals, would people's feelings change?
Anymore, EVERY issue is about money.
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:49:14 PM new
Kraftdinner,
Kraftdinner, The irony is that lack of money is exactly why they are on death row. These people are typically poor and without funds to afford the best defense. With class bias, it is impossible to apply death sentences fairly. Innocent people are executed because of their poverty.
It would seem to me, that just this one issue would be enough to cause you to
reject the death penalty. Innocent people being killed. How on earth can you justify this?
Helen
[ edited by Hjw on Jun 8, 2001 03:52 PM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:58:21 PM new
In my mind, there is no justification for the death penalty Helen. This is just what I think most people are thinking that support it - it saves money (in their minds).
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:16:32 PM new
Kraftdinner,
I don't really believe that money is the big issue here.
Vengeance plays a bigger role and there appears to be a callous disregard for human life.
Helen
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tinkerismyname
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:23:47 PM new
*ahem* s'cuse me. There were many writers of the Bible but only one author. And He is not shortsighted! Contrary to what some may think, the Bible has been and will continue to be applicable in "today's" society. The death penalty is either right or wrong. According to my simple understanding of what God's word says, I believe that the death penalty is wrong.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:36:15 PM new
Is it happy hour yet?
oops
[ edited by bobbi355 on Jun 8, 2001 04:36 PM ]
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:48:02 PM new
bobbi355
I'm still thinking about you and the name thing. Now, it has just occurred to me that
you had that connotation in mind all along.
You knew that I would ultimately be know as
that unmentionable and right now unspellable
name.
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:55:56 PM new
And the conspiracy goes deeper to involve your new friend, Tinkerismyname.
Helen
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:59:06 PM new
Helen, now don't you go gettin' 'noid again or I'll have to address you by..... hellenoid (notice no BOLD letters ..... yet!
DISCLAIMER: ~~ Not meant to derail ~~
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:02:54 PM new
ooops
I forgot about the derailing issue.
Helen
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