BittyBug
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:37:39 PM new
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
Several thoughts...
Jewels pointed out that this person (a US citizen within the US, was not given due process under the laws of this nation, because the law enforcement agency did not perform up to the standards set for law enforcement.
Yes, this case involves a death penelty...what if it did not?
What if this were you and you knew that you had not committed the crime?
Our constitution, our law is set up with the ideal of equal justice for all...what is good enough for Timothy McVeigh has to be good enough for the rest of us. Is this ommition of evidence allowable in all cases?
And...
Timothy McVeigh was a soldier...a damn good one from all that I know.
Do you think that soldier's are taught that "collateral" damage is acceptable? Do you think that Kerry was taught the same thing in Viet Nam?
I will not attempt to excuse McVeigh...I was in OKC the week before the blast. I never think of the city without seeing that fireman carrying that one year old baby so tenderly. I never forget the color of that child's skin or the wounds that showed. However, McVeigh was trained to do what he did here, by the very government that he later declared his own personal war on.
McVeigh is a soldier who attacked his own. He got caught and will be punished. Personally, I don't give a #*!@ what happens to McVeigh, but I worry a hell of a lot about a society that uses the death penelty, the society that makes someone's job that of killing. You bet your ass I would want revenge...the ultimate revenge...but according to US law and politics the punishment can not and is not about revenge. The death penelty is only about revenge. It does not save money, it has never been shown to deter crime...it is the ultimate revenge by a society.
What does McVeigh deserve? I think he deserves to feel the physical and mental anguish of us all, but it cannot be...I can't do that and neither can any other human being.
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krs
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:54:08 PM new
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:57:00 PM new
Man, the hair on the back of my neck just stood straight up looking at that.
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BittyBug
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:59:12 PM new
Is that a picture of my dentist's chair?
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:01:49 PM new
That is a picture of obscenity.
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jt-2007
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:17:03 PM new
As sickening as that picture is, I am glad you posted it KRS. It forces people to face reality.
Denial is so comfortable. IF it were aired live on TV, would we ever do it again?
Probably because they would just select a jury who didn't (choose to) see it.
T
[ edited by jt on Jun 8, 2001 06:28 PM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:32:53 PM new
That's quite the image krs. What are your thoughts on all of this?
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Hjw
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:36:13 PM new
Hangings...maybe the drop was not appropriate and the heads fell off while everybody was watching.
The guillotines were neater but still lots of blood which was repulsive to the onlookers.
Then the electric chair...also misused even in this decade.
So now we have such a sanitized arrangement that appears to be a dental chair. This will keep the bloodthirsty happy without offending their staggering shortage of moral or ethical principles.
Helen
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spazmodeus
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:50:00 PM new
I love the red phone. Who they expecting a call from? Batman? LOL.
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jt-2007
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:03:13 PM new
KRS, you have been holding back.
What is your opinion on this subject at hand?
BTW, Bitty, you really hit in something here:
Do you think that soldier's are taught that "collateral" damage is acceptable?
Normal people go through life, they might think out drastic measures, but they don't act on them. There is always something different behind those who do.
What do we know about his early life?
I confess that I don't.
T
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:04:49 PM new
"I love the red phone. Who they expecting a call from? Batman?"
 spaz.....or maybe the devil himself......"Good job men!"
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:16:58 PM new
C'mon krs - don't just throw out the bait and then sit back and watch - What's your opinion on the subject? Just curious - after all, we've all spilled our guts.
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krs
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:23:11 PM new
That's a hotline to the governor's office, spaz.
Does your batman reference indicate that you hope to see it televised, or maybe in a movie theater?
Not much to see there, I expect. Perhaps you could stage a killing by yourself? I do know one thing and that is that you don't know anything about killing human beings until you do it yourself. So even were you able to watch, the mystique would remain.
Just fascinating, isn't it?
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jt-2007
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:25:48 PM new
~retracted
[ edited by jt on Jun 8, 2001 07:44 PM ]
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hepburn
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:26:41 PM new
A cold, dreary room, devoid of any warmth, compassion or mercy. Looks like a tomb with a chair in it. Waiting for the next "customer". McVeigh will look very nice in it. At least HE has the option to pray (if he does at all) to his maker, whereas those little children and people didn't know what hit them and they didnt get that option for a last minute prayer to THEIR maker.
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julesy
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:34:20 PM new
devoid of any warmth, compassion or mercy
Much like Tim McVeigh. Are we no better?
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hepburn
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:39:26 PM new
I guess I am not, Julesy. I just flat cant find any compassion for the man. He did what he did, and now he can pay for it. I feel no sympathy for him at all. All my compassion is with the families and victims of his crime.
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kraftdinner
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:51:37 PM new
"I do know one thing and that is that you don't know anything about killing human beings until you do it yourself."
krs?????
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:53:12 PM new
What gets me is that he'll get to choose his last meal - like he'll even have time to digest it anyway. Bet the victims would have liked to have had that choice. Besides, how could a person eat knowing that they're going to get fried in a few hours.
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julesy
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:59:05 PM new
"Taking McVeigh out of his cage and killing him will be an act of vengeance and rage and vengeance and rage is what killed my daughter"
--Bud Welch, father of Julie Welch, OK City bombing victim.
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hcross
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:59:31 PM new
Executions were a family event back in the day. People get a thrill off of that kind of thing, if they made them public again I guaran-damn-te you that people would be lined up around the block to watch.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:03:59 PM new
And I'd also guarantee that there would be less punks out there blowing up people if they saw what would happen to them if they did it.
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hepburn
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:14:07 PM new
I cant say I get a thrill out of knowing he will soon be dead, as in "oh goody. Lets take a picnic lunch and throw rotten fruit on him as he passes to the gallows". I dont get a thrill period. But I am satisfied that he will get whats coming to him, and what he knew would happen when he did what he did. Hes not stupid. He was fully aware of the carnage that would result, as well as the children that were in there. His war was with the government, not its children. So no, Im not thrilled. I am not happy at it either. I am satisfied.
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spazmodeus
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:16:01 PM new
Twisting the Batman comment to give the impression that I'm hot to see the execution televised is quite a reach, krs.
But it did remind me of something I meant to post earlier and neglected to.
I feel that if we the people are going to be in the business of executing people, it should be done publicly. Everyone should witness the procedure so that they can make an informed decision as to whether they are for or against capital punishment.
By the way, one of the last words I'd associate with capital punishment is "mystique."
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dellastreet
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:22:18 PM new
Executing a murderer is not about revenge. It's about punishment. That's why it's called capital punishment. It is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime.
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hcross
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:42:07 PM new
I am for the death penalty, I think there should be many more of them.
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hepburn
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posted on June 8, 2001 09:03:31 PM new
If officials would get off their duffs and start "injecting", maybe murders like this one wouldnt be so common. Criminals who do what McVeigh did KNOW they will have appeals and languish for years on death row, maybe never getting around to being "ultimately punished". Victims have no rights, but criminals damn sure do. Its time to stop babysitting these creeps. The prisons here are like motels. Let those who do the crime not serve the time. If they kill, so shall they be killed.
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bobbi355
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posted on June 8, 2001 09:18:47 PM new
This is going to be a long thread by the time Monday gets here if it doesn't get locked in the meantime.
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dogdays
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posted on June 8, 2001 09:23:40 PM new
Even with all the pro's on putting the man to death, somehow capital punishment simply does not sit right with me. I am burdened each time I read or hear about another execution. Even though a killer's behavior is animalistic, those in judge and jury are not.
Oh, KRS, your words, your pain. To sooth your brow, to ease your soul. I am sorry I cannot carry your burden for you.
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tinkerismyname
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posted on June 8, 2001 09:36:30 PM new
Hepburn and bobbi-
You each brought out a point that I would like to touch on just for a moment. The fact that the victims were not given an opportunity to prepare for the "hereafter". I hate that TM did what he did. This reinforces what scripture teaches about being prepared for whatever may happen. Tomorrow is not promised and every day is a gift.
How much more "punishment" would it be for a man his age to spend the rest of his natural life locked up, as opposed to a quick, painless lethal injection?
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