posted on November 26, 2005 11:53:59 AM new
Just checked my previous auctions today (Saturday November 26) and am happy to report that the Dealio spam is removed on my large image pages. I'm reluctant to say thank you because it shouldn't have been allowed in the first place. Perhaps I should say I'm appreciative of the Vendio folks here who heard us and insisted that our complaints were not only justified but absolutely correct. Thanks for your hard work. Now please pass along to any other Vendio consultants that we sellers pay Vendio for business efficiency. We pay the fees and create the auctions. Quite simply, they are ours. Any kind of spam or links not authorized by sellers is wrong and inappropriate, not to mention rude and disrespectful to our potential buyers. That is the mindset that must be communicated with Vendio...and I hope heard once and for all. Thanks again.
posted on November 27, 2005 09:32:19 AM new
Hello ciao346,
I don't see any live ads in your account, but I took a look at a couple of your recently closed ads and there is no advertizing or promotion of any kind on the enlarged image page.
posted on November 27, 2005 12:24:56 PM new
Thanks AbeCS. I did post 11/23 that the link was taken off my closed auctions. I'm sure everyone on this thread feels better about having it GONE!
posted on November 27, 2005 04:39:23 PM new
Thank you for listening to your customers and removing this link.
My question now is related to the "quick fix" that involved us going in and setting up "dummy storefronts" to remove the Dealio link.
Do we now have to make additional changes to our accounts to avoid any unexpected charges on our next invoice???
posted on November 27, 2005 07:38:20 PM new
Vendio: I have been with you from the time you were AuctionWatch, and I am outraged that you would think it was OK to lure our potential customers away for a price comparison on OUR dime.
How arrogant! and how stealthy!
I am not NOW or EVER interested in Dealio or any other similar Vendio marketing tool.
Please remember there are other auction service sites out there besides Vendio!
I won't mention the names but all any of your customers have to do is a quick search on Google to find them.
It would be a short term hardship to leave Vendio, but I for one will not hesitate the next time you all pull a fast one like Dealio...
I feel that, as other have stated, that you really do not GET it!
posted on November 27, 2005 09:32:49 PM new
I think all of this, including our comments on this thread, are part of Vendio's "viral marketing" campaign. Comments are comments and good and bad they put the name out and draw attention to this new venture. Must be the brain child of a wannabe Harvard MBA.
Of particular interest in the wikipedia article is this part:
"Edgy Gossip/Buzz marketing" ads or messages that create controversy by challenging the borders of taste or appropriateness. Discussion of the resulting controversy can be considered to generate buzz and word of mouth advertising. Prior to releasing a movie, some Hollywood movie stars get married, get divorced, or get arrested, or become involved in some controversy that directs conversational attention them. An example is the publicity campaign about the dubious love affair between Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes that came out just before each of them released a movie"
It seems what hasn't been considered is that this campaign truly jeopordizes the core business of the company. People don't like being taken advantage of. Vendio is not a free service like Hotmail and our ebay listings are hardly free. Furthermore, the new venture is in direct conflct with the interest of the core client base.
It will be interesting to see how Vendio thinks it can make this more palatable.
-------------------------------------
posted on November 27, 2005 10:50:20 PM new
NEGLUS,
You could be right but I have much simpler explanation to this fiasco: greed and complete lack of morals.
Vendio has posted 500% increase in revenues comparing to last year. Additionally, they didn’t have any increase in spending so they pocketed the difference. They think they are invincible.
Actually, what worries me the most is lack of any responsiveness or understanding how wrong they are. Some people were thanking Vendio for “fast” reaction but if you read the thread carefully, they never responded to any questions other than some technical issues. The responses were not quite accurate either.
The “fix” with fake store was a reaction to silence a handful of people. They were not planning to get rid of Dealio advertisements at all. All enlarged pictures are pulled from Vendio servers on demand and they didn’t have to wait for any auction to end to remove Dealio. This is the reason why now you don’t see Dealio in old auctions as you still access Vendio servers to see the pictures.
Ebay is not caching Vendio pictures and we didn’t have to wait for existing auctions to end. We didn’t have to set up fake stores. We still should not have 10-11 Vendio links all over our auctions.
They don’t get it and they will not get it until it affects the bottom line.
posted on December 1, 2005 06:32:37 AM new
We have had all our shipping information on our eBay auctions lost, it now says:
Shipping costs: Not specified
at the top of the page under the item amount.
Please confirm what problem this is, and that it is not related to Vendio opening up a pseudo store for the dealio problem.
Also confirm if there is going to be a permanent fix for dealio, that we will not have a pseudo store forever, and that we will never be charged for this pseudo store.
This is an eBay glitch, it looks like they are having some problems with their new Get it Fast feature. I posted in the other thread about this so you should check there, in case you haven't already.
posted on December 1, 2005 05:33:24 PM new
Thanksgiving vacation has been over for several days, we are still waiting for a Vendio response to this Dealio situation.
Please confirm if there is going to be a permanent fix for Dealio, that we will not have a pseudo store forever, and that we will never be charged for this pseudo store.
posted on December 1, 2005 06:44:11 PM new
Hi gaugagaug,
I see no reason you would need to continue using the store workaround. Feel free to close your store and remove the preference we pointed out as a workaround at your convenience.
posted on December 1, 2005 09:30:41 PM new
Meffle,
I'm not sure why you sound so surprised that everybody is still using fake store as nobody bothered to inform us. I think it would be only polite to let us know that we don't need to use fake store anymore.
This is a news for me as, until now, NOBODY told me that I don't have to use "let's pretend I have a store" store.
I have disabled this "feature" but do I have to wait another four weeks for the link to disappear from my auctions?
posted on December 2, 2005 05:11:44 AM new
Well, gee.
I guess now we're supposed to just figure out exactly HOW to close the store and which preferences to change so that our set-up is the same as it was before all of this started.
Sorry, but I'm not ashamed to admit that I don't know how to do it, and I would appreciate a precise set of steps to reverse the work-around.
I would also like to see someone in a supervisory capacity take the time to post to this thread and explain exactly what decisions were made by Vendio regarding Dealio, regarding their on-going policy when it comes to any type of promotional advertising on auctions, and frankly, regarding their opinion of us as users of this site.
This is the most hostile demeanor I've ever seen Vendio take, and I would like to know where we stand in our relationship. This isn't like the old days when only a couple auction services were sanctioned by eBay and we were all basically making a choice between the old Andale, the old Auction Watch, and the old eBay listing service.
It's a big world out there, and while I would like to stay where I'm familiar with the program and the features, I don't want to stay if I'm not respected, and at the moment, I'm really not sure where I stand with you.
This was an ugly and thoughtless mistake on Vendio's part, and I'm suprised at the lack of communication and at the short answers that have sometimes been snippy if not downright sarcastic.
This isn't the Vendio I've been using (and paying) for several years ..... is this really the best you guys can do?
posted on December 2, 2005 10:58:22 AM new
Hi everyone,
I apologize if any of our responses or correspondence has been perceived as anything other than informative. They were never intended to be read that way, but it's sometimes difficult in written forums to distinguish brevity from snippy.
As for the workaround, it was the fastest solution to the concerns expressed by individuals here in this forum as we determined both the extent of the concern and an appropriate longer term solution. We apologize for any inconvenience this quick reaction may have caused.
If you wish to revert back to the standard image hosting page and no longer have or promote your store on this enlarged image page, you can simply change (uncheck) the preference to promote your store on this enlarged image page (in Global Preferences) and close your store in MyAccount. The image hosting page will change immediately to the standard form, and any new listings will have no reference to a Vendio store. If there are small links or buttons to the Vendio store in existing listings on the main eBay listing page, as many know we submit image descriptions to eBay that are not dynamic at that point. Existing descriptions may continue to have these links until they expire.
We have no current plans to restart this promotion and have clearly received the message that any promotions we may want to work with sellers on both involve them and give them the opportunity not to participate in an easy way that doesn't involve any non-standard workarounds.
Setting our disagreements on this enlarged image link aside for just a minute, we maintain that Dealio offers a fabulously convenient search for eBay items that will only get better. Consumer response has already been overwhelmingly positive, and continued Dealio adoption will disproportionately help Vendio sellers. We understand if you prefer not to participate in promotional efforts, and you may not choose to use Dealio for your own buying; but it was designed to help you sell more than others in your category not using Vendio services. Perhaps these beliefs led us to be overly defensive of our new product in the face of criticism both of it and of us. No disrespect was intended, and we continually admire and respect your individual and collective efforts to compete in the eBay marketplace. We know it's often not easy....
posted on December 2, 2005 12:22:39 PM new
Well said!
As a fairly new user I would like to thank Vendio for listening and also for realising the extent of the discontent and that for every one who posted to the forum there were probably hundreds who didn't.
I am sure that Dealio is a great product designed for Buyers and wish you well with it.
In closing I would like to make an observation that if EBay responded to concerns in this manner then probably we would have nothing to complain about leaving us with boring lives but lots of sales!
posted on December 2, 2005 01:12:28 PM new
Thank you.
The issue with Dealio wasn't its merits; the issue was that it is a buyer's product, not a seller's, and to require any of us to promote your product for you without our consent, and perhaps to our financial detriment, was wrong.
I'll go back to the analogy I posted earlier in the thread: for us to be expected to promote Dealio would be the equivalent of you running ads for Andale on your site. YOU might think you've got the better product, but why shoot yourself in the foot?
You wouldn't let a webmaster sell advertising on your site without your permission (and review); and we can't either.
I'm relieved that I can continue to work with an auction service that has been by far the easiest and most well-designed.
posted on December 2, 2005 01:46:47 PM new
I agree with sunnyjo and continue to try and make my point because obviously Vendio still doesn't understand. As long as you don't understand, there is always a chance it will happen again. So, here is just one more attempt at explaining my side.
Once a buyer has looked at my listing and clicked on my photo to enlarge it, I already have their attention. That's what I want to keep....their attention on my listing!
Why would I want them to view other items at this point? It simply makes no sense at all.
Please don't try to decide what is "good" for us...let us do that for ourselves.
posted on December 2, 2005 02:11:41 PM new
Meffle,
I was going to finally drop the subject but it still amazes me how Vendio doesn't get the point.
You wrote: "Consumer response has already been overwhelmingly positive.” This is the point. We are not customers. We are sellers. Could you please get it?
posted on December 2, 2005 02:46:43 PM new
Hi Linda and jackmikol,
I reread my message again after reading yours, and I'm not sure why you feel we "don't get it." If we didn't understand or didn't care, we probably wouldn't have changed anything. We didn't even take a half measure. We said, "Yes, understand the concern. Let's change it." As I wrote, we also "clearly received the message" regarding future promotions. I'm sorry it didn't come across for you as it may have for otteropp, whom I thank for the kind words. I'm not sure what more we could have said or can say now.
My positive comments concerning Dealio as a consumer service were merely intended to separate the service and the promotion of the service, which has been muddied in the course of this discussion. It's a good service, we work hard on it like we do everything we do, and we're incredibly proud of it and the team continuing to make it better.
posted on December 2, 2005 02:59:42 PM new
Thank you for clarifying that.
As a seller, I don't care for anything that offers "comparisons". I'm only interested in promoting my own items, my own way, to my own customers.
As a buyer, for new items I go to Walmart or Macy's etc and do not use Ebay except when i am searching for collectible items and $$ comparisons just don't work for those.
That is also the market I sell too...collectibles. And price comparisons don't work as too many other factors have to be considered. Factors such as age, condition, actual subject etc.
posted on December 2, 2005 03:42:24 PM new
Thanks Linda,
That's a most helpful insight as we move forward. While in certain cases comparing prices is a big consideration (a new DVD or camera for instance), in other cases discovery is really the most important (particularly unique items). While Dealio started in consumer electronics and may have the current association with "comparison," the real benefit should be discovery, particularly as we expand categories. We need to work on making that benefit clearer as we grow the service. Thanks again for pointing that out.
posted on December 2, 2005 03:58:39 PM new
What Vendio seems to be going through is experiencing the growing pains of how to maximally benefit from a marketplace that demands mutually exclusive services. The healthcare system faced it 10 years ago when the same organizations tried to promote both medical education with fee-for-service care and managed care systems at the same time within the same organizational structure. It didn't work. The need of the first was to admit patients and keep them in the hospital long enough to both educate the students and stay financially in the black. The need of the second was to streamline costs and keep people out of the hospital, but they didn't have the same student educational needs.
Buyers need the best deal, but sellers need that deal to be their deal (even if it isn't the best deal). Perhaps the time has come for Vendio to separate its buyer and seller services.
posted on December 2, 2005 04:08:24 PM new
Like Linda, I'm an antiques and vintage seller, and while I agree that discovery is a big part of this type of selling (since our buyers are primarily collectors or dealers), there is always the possibility that I'm not the only one selling a widget at any given time.
But I could give you tons of examples where my widget goes for several times the amount of the others being listed at the same time.
Why? Maybe because I take better pictures. Maybe because I write a better title and hit more key words. Maybe because my reputation on eBay is sterling. Maybe because I have tons of repeat buyers who bookmark my auctions and are always looking to see what I've got listed this week.
Obviously, I can't have all of my hard work to build this following and reputation result in sending my potential customers to Dealio to see if someone else has the same widget at a better price.
If it hasn't occured to them to do an eBay search, or a Google search to see if there's another one at a lower price, then I'll be darned if I can let Vendio point the way with flashy banners and splashy logos.
Look, I know this is beating a dead horse, but it was such a phenomenal breach of trust between us and you that it's hard not to keep repeating it: your Vendio clients are ALL sellers. We each want to be the only one that sells our widget to people.
There is simply no benefit whatsoever to a seller to be involved with Dealio. You can keep telling yourself that, but unless you're a cutthroat commodity seller who makes their profit with obscene shipping costs, there's just nothing in it for us.
Nothing. Nada. Zippo.
Good for you that it's a cool service to make money from; but you need to find volunteers to make you that money, you can't trap your clients into doing it for you.
I know you get it, but it was such a stunning blow that it's hard not to keep mumbling about it. But I guess I should.
posted on December 2, 2005 04:38:32 PM new
sunnyjo,
A most regrettable oversight. Your words were most kind as well. The production team works really hard on usability generally with the hope no one notices (i.e. it just works for you), and it's great to hear we're having some success there. Thanks for the thoughts.
As for what's in it for Vendio sellers, I still disagree with the Nada statement. I agree we didn't strike an appropriate balance between costs to you and benefits with this promotion, but please consider the following.
It's never gonna happen, but assume 100% of eBay searches were using Dealio to assist the discovery, and Vendio sellers' items were highlighted in the results. Do you think you'll get a disproportionate number of eBay item views (and consequently sales, all else being equal)? Absolutely. It's harder, however, to think about that future possibility when Dealio is new and therefore both a very small percentage of searches and in limited categories. But if Dealio's successful at all in broad categories and promoted by us at no cost to you, you'll see some incremental sales lift vs. other sellers even at a much, much smaller discovery share than 100%. But I recognize we'll need to prove that to you over time (and not cost you anything in the process unless you want to help).
passedtothepresent appropriately points out the buyer deal vs. seller need to have it be their deal. eBay addresses this issue by offering an incredible discovery service for all items plus additional ways for sellers to promote items for a fee to stand above the crowd in search. Dealio is an attempt to help Vendio sellers also stand out. It's just that we don't have the same discovery reach yet to make it readily apparent to you.
posted on December 2, 2005 04:59:18 PM new
Again, everything sunnyjo says in triplicate
I was a Vendio customer way back when it was free and stayed with it when it started charging.
I left it when you started charging for photo space as I found a flat rate service and my own web space at around 1/5 the price.
But, now I really need the "click to enlarge" feature for my record and lobby card lots. So, I headed back over this way, changed up my old template, and was all set to go when this dealio thing cropped up.
Actually, I was ready to start listing a few months back but heard about the problems with SMPro and decided to wait for the new edition. Then, the dealio fiasco and I really need to get started as January is my best month of the year.
Thank you for your quick response and I am excited about returning to Vendio.
[ edited by myfavorites4u on Dec 2, 2005 05:02 PM ]
posted on December 2, 2005 05:21:29 PM new
This is what I have to say.
I've been here since Vendio was Auction Watch and was free. Through all the bumps and growing pains and outages and fee increases, I stayed with you.
You put the Dealio ad in my images without my knowledge or permission.
It cost me close to $100 on just one of my auctions. Mine sold for less than half of what it should have. Another seller's item, absolutely identical, same good pictures and description, had multiple bidders and sold for TWICE my final high bid.
The other seller's pictures were not from Vendio.
If you'd like to check it out, I'll send you links to my auction and the other one.
I'm VERY UPSET! I feel it was because of the Dealio link.
My images are MINE, ALL MINE! I pay Vendio to host them. Vendio DOES NOT have the right to put an advertisement in them without my consent.
Hear me loud and clear...
If Vendio EVER, EVER AGAIN puts an advertisement or anything else in MY pictures or auction pages without my express consent, I will be gone. Done, outta here. No doubt about it.
posted on December 2, 2005 05:30:06 PM new
See, you lose me with this sentence: "Do you think you'll get a disproportionate number of eBay item views (and consequently sales, all else being equal)?"
There's no such thing as all else being equal, and that's the whole problem. There are no equal vintage and collectible items. Every one of them has been handled, used, stored, etc. Every one has its own subtle nuances that can enhance or deter from its valuation.
There are no equal sellers. Some are really good, some really should be banned from even owning a computer. Some offer better shipping, or timing, or are closer, or faster, or .... well, you get the idea.
Will the VIEWS of my listings be disproportionally higher within Dealio if I choose to participate? I guess so. Don't know, don't care. I don't want to be on any more lists ... just the eBay search engine is a daunting enough list of my competitors. But at least eBay keeps them on the site, not wandering off into the ether to maybe discover a cybermall they didn't know about, fall in love with, and give their collecting dollars to from now on. Good grief, we need to at least try to keep them on eBay so I get another shot at them the next time they're looking for something!
It's just that simple business axiom that you don't, um, poop where you eat: do nothing to destroy, dismantel, or dilute your message.
posted on December 2, 2005 05:43:15 PM new
Lucy is right. Mellfe has skillfully moved the discussion towards how good or bad Dealio is. I don't care if it is the best service yet. The point is, it doesn’t belong to Vendio and surely it doesn’t belong in my auctions.
I had to deal with Dealio, with empty store, fake store, and now I'm stuck with store logo for next four weeks in my eBay store. Just before Christmas.
I think Vendio should refund fees for ALL members for the entire time they advertise without our knowledge. I don't care for a payment and I can donate the refund to the Red Cross but this the only way Vendio gets the point.
Let's not discuss here the Dealio service but the outrageous behavior of the company I used to trust.
