posted on December 5, 2001 12:44:07 AM new
After being scammed by a PayPal account holder I am convinced that PayPal should do some web site renovating. PayPal should add this to their homepage:
"Attention all scam artists". Did you know that you can open up multiple PayPal accounts, open up bogus auctions, and then have PayPal as your only payment option. When the unsuspecting customer sends payment to your first account you can immediately send the funds to your other account and never send the goods. The customer will go through our Buyer Complaint Process and then we will pretend to investigate for 30 days (that will give you enough time to transfer the funds into the account of your choice) and then we'll tell them that you no longer have any money in your first account. We will then protect your identity so the customer cant find out who you are. "Hows that for service" Just think what you could do with these extra funds--Take a Vegas trip, Do some home renovations, send your children to college, invest in our upcoming IPO, the uses are infinite. Since we make our money off you as a "seller", we are not concerned about the unsuspecting customers protection. If you act now we will even credit $5 to each of your accounts to seed your endeavor. Your Best Friend, PayPal
posted on December 5, 2001 07:16:44 AM new
i dont think these scam artists can keep the money for too long,they have left enough trails to be caught.it may take a while but he will be caught/
as for the buyers,learn a lesson,if you cannot afford the loss,go to a reputable store and buy there!
posted on December 5, 2001 07:39:58 AM new
Yes, I agree they will get caught eventually but since PayPal's "extensive"LOL investigation concluded that I can't have my money back, I'm still screwed. I swear the idiots at PayPal are shooting themselves in the foot with that policy. I don't even care about the money anymore. I just want to see them fail and will help in any way I can to make that happen. I was a happy PayPal user for almost 2 years with a ton of transactions (mostly as a seller) with no problems so I was completely shocked at the lack of care that was given to my case. PayPal doesn't care about their customers. They've made that abundantly clear.
posted on December 5, 2001 02:10:09 PM new
Hi dealerjim,
You could have been defrauded by this party using any payment medium.
All customer information (including yours) is proprietary. It would require a subpoena to get, as this is the legal way to release information about another party to an inquiring party.
Please bear in mind that our process does not guarantee recovery from a bad seller (per our terms of use).
I am sorry to hear of the issues you have had with this seller.
posted on December 5, 2001 04:12:10 PM new
Yes, I could have been defrauded using any payment medium, but I was defrauded using PayPal. I have not received 1 decent reply to any complaint thusfar, including the one I sent to you. I'm sure if I were a scam artist, I would be super pleased with PayPal since you would help me screw other people out of their money. And of couse you would keep my information private where no one could find out who I was. If I decide to become a fraudulent seller I'll come back to PayPal where I know I'll be protected. Thanks for all your help.....
posted on December 5, 2001 04:35:41 PM new
Hi dealerjim,
Information can be released with a subpoena. You can also pursue filing fraud charges against the individual, file an insurance claim at the web site the purchase was made from (if applicable), file a police report,etc.
Our process is in place to attempt recovery, but we can't guarantee it. We have no control over the items listed at another web site, nor do we control who a party sends a payment to.
I am giving you some additional advice on what you can do.
posted on December 6, 2001 02:32:15 AM new
Damon,
I am over the money issue. I now want revenge and I will get it tenfold. PayPal is giving a lot of unsuspecting members a false sense of security. Whenever someone is making a payment, the last page before sending it should have a warning that says: If you send this payment and the person whom you are paying doesn't send your merchandise there is absolutely nothing we can do to help you if the seller empties their account.
But you and I both know that PayPal can't tell the truth. Who would ever pay for anything using PayPal if they knew there was no protection from a fraudulent seller? If a message like that had popped up on my screen I would have never paid this jerk off with PayPal.
Perfect example: I used PayPal for nearly 2 years and completed a lot of transactions and made PayPal a lot of money. All that time I felt as if I would be protected against things like this. And then to be ignored by customer support after all the business I have done with you. PayPal does not want my business.
Until PayPal finds a way to protect their buyers, you will consistantly lose faithful members over the scammers whom PayPal protects whole heartedly. Also if PayPal's customer service continues to be run by a bunch of smart ass idiots who could care less about their members, that will also lose many customers.
posted on December 6, 2001 03:08:14 AM new
Also if I had read something like that on the final payment page and sent payment anyway then I would be the one at fault for sending it. PayPal customer service could then send me an email that said "we warned you" and we wouldn't be having this discussion. PayPal should better inform its members before things like this have a chance to happen.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:05:07 AM new
well said,but i think you have directed your rage against the minor party,it should be ebay you should being going after with both guns,ebay should prop up a page when you are ready to bid which said this seller of OURS could be a total jerk and has no intention of sending you his merchandise,proceed at your own risk,we dont have time to serve you as your bid is too low.
posted on December 10, 2001 03:41:14 PM new
I agree with this message thread.
I have just been scammed by a seller for $608.50. The seller committed a U.S. FELONY by selling me pirated software, which he claims was genuine. I verified the authenticity of the software with the original maker, and officials of the company confirmed that the product I purchased are both illegal and non-working. This to me is the same as non-receipt of the product. I tried numerous times contacting the felon for a full refund, but to no avail as he now ignores me. This felon is continuing to sell the pirated software on Ebay at http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=visteoninc&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=200
I have warned all the winners of the auction already. When I filed a complaint via PayPal's Buyer Complaint Form, this is what I got in the reply:
"PayPal has concluded the investigation of your Buyer Complaint. Case Number:259556 Transaction Date: 11/24/2001 4:54:00 PM Transaction Amount: $608.50 Seller's Email: [email protected] Seller's Name: Michael Bruhl PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy does not apply to disputes about the attributes or quality of goods received. As a result, we cannot reverse the transaction or issue a refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable resolution. PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities."
PayPal suggests I contact the felon, even though I have told them specifically that the felon is not responding and has not responded since he took my money. Furthermore, PayPal makes an ironic statement -- "PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities". What attributes of PIRATED SOFTWARE, that does not work, sold to an unsuspecting consumer is not a fraud? By not recognizing that this felon has committed fraud against an innocent consumer, PAYPAL IS HARBORING CRIMINALS AND THEIR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.
Many of us may ask, why are there no regulations against PayPal? Because PayPal is privately held (LLC), they are not subject to the same federal regulations as bank. This means the PayPal can declare bankruptcy and no one will ever know what happens to your money.
I want to encourage legitimate banks to come into PayPal's space. They are the natural heirs of of e-currency and they can definitely offer customers better support and fraud protection. PayPal was programmed by an inexperience 23 year old script kiddy who has no knowledge of real programming. That is why they were hacked. That is why many of the members also had their accounts frozen. We need a real company that is FDIC insured to take over this space.
I want to warn the entire auction community to avoid PayPal. I have never been more upset at a company for incompetence and negligence.
posted on December 10, 2001 03:46:58 PM new
Hi arurenusan,
Several items to consider:
a) PayPal does not list the items for sale
b) PayPal has no control over the venue where these items are listed
c) Our terms of use do state we will not get involved in a quality dispute, as this is between the buyer/seller.
d) would sending a money order have made a difference in the merchandise you received?
e) would sending a check have made a difference in the merchandise received?
This was an action taken by an individual, not a company. You would have to pursue charges against the individual.
posted on December 10, 2001 04:17:50 PM new
PAYPALDAMON
THEN REMOVE YOUR STATEMENTS THAT YOU DO NOT TOLERATE FRAUD. YOU HARBOR CRIMINALS. PUT IN BIG BOLD LETTERS THAT YOU OFFER CUSTOMERS NO FRAUD PROTECTION. YOUR SITE IS MISLEADING.
IN FACT, YOU FROZE THE CRIMINAL'S ACCOUNT AND REFUSE TO REFUND MY MONEY. YOUR COMPANY IS KEEPING MY MONEY FOR YOURSELF! THE SAD THING IS, YOUR BOOKS ARE NOT OPENED TO THE PUBLIC TO BE SCRUTINIZED. YOUR COMPANY PRACTICES ARE VERY SHADY.
posted on December 10, 2001 06:52:26 PM new
there is no way for a third party like paypal to prove one way or another if the item is what it claims to be or not to be.
it has never seen the item,it does not know what the seller actually shipped and the buyer actually received.
i could send an 18k platinum rolex watch to a buyer and he could claim i sent him a cheap timex.
someone said she bot a 500 dollar doll from an old friend who needed money and she got a box of newspaper?
if they ask the seller,he could say he shipped the original and you did a switch on him??
why dont you try returning the item back to him ,get proof of receipt and then do a chargeback .
some sellers are becoming pretty cautious,they do not just accept any returned item.
you hear these horror stories all the time on ebay,yahoo and amzn auctions,anyone who needs money to pay rent or grocery can just list a scanned photo of a laptop,camera or pc and raise thousands of dollars in days.
go to a reputable store next time-bestbuy,compusa.
posted on December 10, 2001 07:09:03 PM new
Are you asking me to return the product to a felon who has not responded to any of my e-mails since he ran away with my money?
Are you suggesting that PayPal, who refuse to conduct an investigation, yet have been notified often enough and provided evidences against the felon, is correct in turning a blind eye to this matter? Yet they state they do not tolerate criminal activities?
Do you realize how false the advertising is?
Do you realize that PayPal has the power to reverse the charge? Yet they won't because they make a 2.9% income on my fee?
Do you understand that PayPal is telling me to F*CK OFF because "As long as you received something, be it crap or a piece of stick, you got your product for $608.50. We have access to both your accounts and we could refund you, but we don't care because we want to make our 2.9%".
posted on December 10, 2001 07:24:43 PM new
The reason you should try to return the item is many credit card companies will let you file a quality of goods chargeback if you've made a good faith effort to work it out with the merchant and tried to return the item. However contact your credit card company to see if you have to return it in this case, since he really never sent a legal and working version of the item. (This doesn't apply if you didn't pay by credit card).
posted on December 10, 2001 08:21:19 PM new
read his terms of sale,did it say all sales final??
if you want to return the item,there is a chance he would not accept it.
find out what kind of seller he is,does he sell a lot,does he have a store??what address are you returning item back to??
if you use the same packaging with your name etc on it,he would recognise it right away.someone once suggested if he has a store or he buys a lot in the mail,which day is the busiest?package it differently and send by ups or fed exp,someone said free sample but may be thats no good.
but if he signs for it,then you can do chargeback,you cannot sit here and complain and have the merchandise in your hands.
posted on December 11, 2001 03:42:36 AM new
File a dispute with your credit card company if you paid by credit card. You can tell them about your issue not knowing where to return it, and about how it was fraud.
[ edited by andrew123s on Dec 11, 2001 03:43 AM ]
posted on February 12, 2002 02:06:53 PM new
Here is the answer to Paypal if they have frozen funds or reversed transactions that you believe were valid. Tell tell to the people who care:
I'm assuming you were scammed on an auction site. Just out of curiosity, did you check the seller's record before you bid? Did they have a good record of follow through on their transactions?
posted on April 6, 2002 04:09:15 PM new
stopwhining
I have never, once, been scammed on Ebay in several years of traiding. Even from the start, as a newbie, I was careful. I always check feedback and look for patterns that tip me off as to whether the seller is honest or not. People who don't do this are in essence ignoring the protection that eBay does provide. They have no complaint coming as far as eBay is concerned.
I've been thinking for a while now that your ID doesn't really fit your personality.
posted on April 6, 2002 06:29:56 PM new
i am just trying to help ,i see you do not see it that way.
returning the item back to the seller,obtain signed receipt and then do a chargeback has worked for many buyers,i dont know why you have to turn your anger on me??
posted on June 6, 2002 06:36:40 AM new
there is an american disease going around-there is so much to buy and there is so little money to buy them.
yes,most of us suffer from this common disease,thats why we buy and sell on ebay.
raise you hand if you suffer from this disease.
(i am raising my hand!!)
posted on July 31, 2002 05:04:35 AM new
There is an ATTORNEY GENERAL IN EVERY STATE. Their services are free and provided by the State to protect consumers. Contact yours to find out what information is needed for them to investigate (usually a simple questionaire or statement of details), put pressure on and possibly close down companies which are not dealing with people properly. There is no cost to you to place a complaint with the ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE. For the amount of time you have spent posting these comments you could have been 6 months ahead on getting real legal help. It's never too late. I had a friend resolve a $2,500 problem they had in a similar situation with a totally different company (not Paypal) through the Attorney General Office in their state.
Most companies don't even like to hear from them and immediately remedy the situation without further complications.
I would say good luck but I believe IN GOD so I will say GOD BLESS you in your endeavors.
posted on August 10, 2002 09:33:39 PM new
Just reading this thread and finding how ridiculous Paypal writing they that do not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Right now Paypal has been served subpoenas from two federal grand juries regarding illegal online gambling. And they are being investigated by the New York DA regarding illegal online gambling.
(-: