posted on December 10, 2001 03:42:12 PM new
I have just been scammed by a seller for $608.50. The seller committed a U.S. FELONY by selling me pirated software, which he claims was genuine. I verified the authenticity of the software with the original maker, and officials of the company confirmed that the product I purchased are both illegal and non-working. This to me is the same as non-receipt of the product. I tried numerous times contacting the felon for a full refund, but to no avail as he now ignores me. This felon is continuing to sell the pirated software on Ebay at http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=visteoninc&include=0&since=30&sort=3&rows=200
I have warned all the winners of the auction already. When I filed a complaint via PayPal's Buyer Complaint Form, this is what I got in the reply:
"PayPal has concluded the investigation of your Buyer Complaint. Case Number:259556 Transaction Date: 11/24/2001 4:54:00 PM Transaction Amount: $608.50 Seller's Email: [email protected] Seller's Name: Michael Bruhl PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy does not apply to disputes about the attributes or quality of goods received. As a result, we cannot reverse the transaction or issue a refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller for an amicable resolution. PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities."
PayPal suggests I contact the felon, even though I have told them specifically that the felon is not responding and has not responded since he took my money. Furthermore, PayPal makes an ironic statement -- "PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities". What attributes of PIRATED SOFTWARE, that does not work, sold to an unsuspecting consumer is not a fraud? By not recognizing that this felon has committed fraud against an innocent consumer, PAYPAL IS HARBORING CRIMINALS AND THEIR ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.
Many of us may ask, why are there no regulations against PayPal? Because PayPal is privately held (LLC), they are not subject to the same federal regulations as bank. This means the PayPal can declare bankruptcy and no one will ever know what happens to your money.
I want to encourage legitimate banks to come into PayPal's space. They are the natural heirs of of e-currency and they can definitely offer customers better support and fraud protection. PayPal was programmed by an inexperience 23 year old script kiddy who has no knowledge of real programming. That is why they were hacked. That is why many of the members also had their accounts frozen. We need a real company that is FDIC insured to take over this space.
I want to warn the entire auction community to avoid PayPal. I have never been more upset at a company for incompetence and negligence.
posted on December 10, 2001 03:49:01 PM new
Hi arurenusan,
Several items to consider:
a) PayPal does not list the items for sale
b) PayPal has no control over the venue where these items are listed
c) Our terms of use do state we will not get involved in a quality dispute, as this is between the buyer/seller.
d) would sending a money order have made a difference in the merchandise you received?
e) would sending a check have made a difference in the merchandise received?
This was an action taken by an individual, not a company. You would have to pursue charges against the individual.PayPal will comply with all legal requests for information on the seller.
posted on December 10, 2001 04:27:16 PM new
PAYPALDAMON
THEN REMOVE YOUR STATEMENTS THAT YOU DO NOT TOLERATE FRAUD. YOU HARBOR CRIMINALS. PUT IN BIG BOLD LETTERS THAT YOU OFFER CUSTOMERS NO FRAUD PROTECTION. YOUR SITE IS MISLEADING.
IF I HAD PAY BY CHECK, MY BANK OFFERS ME FRAUD PROTECTION. IF I PAID VIA MONEY ORDER, I CAN TRACE THE FELON VIA BOTH THE MAIL SYSTEM AND HIS DEPOSITS. PAYPAL HARBORS CRIMINALS BY NOT RELEASING CRIMINAL INFORMATION NOR CONDUCTING A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION.
FURTHERMORE, IT IS RELATIVELY EASY TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION. IF THE FELON DOES NOT RESPOND, DON'T YOU SUSPECT SOMETHING? I KNOW IT IS IN PAYPAL'S INTEREST TO HELP THE SELLERS, AS THAT IS WHERE THE MAJORITY OF YOUR BUSINESS IS GENERATED. HOWEVER SHIELDING THE FELONS IS A CRIME AND AUTHORITIES SHOULD NOT DIFFERENTIATE CRIMINALS AND THOSE WHO HARBOR THEM.
IF YOU FROZE THE CRIMINAL'S ACCOUNT AND REFUSE TO REFUND MY MONEY, YOUR COMPANY IS KEEPING MY MONEY FOR YOURSELF! THE SAD THING IS, YOUR BOOKS ARE NOT OPENED TO THE PUBLIC TO BE SCRUTINIZED. YOUR COMPANY PRACTICES ARE VERY SHADY.
--sorry for the caps.
[ edited by arurenusan on Dec 11, 2001 12:59 PM ]
Getting information from any institution about one of their customers does require a subpoena. We will release customer information with the proper legal documentation presented, and we do comply with all requests from legal authorities.
(much as we would not release your information without the proper documentation).
posted on December 11, 2001 01:02:18 PM new
Getting a subpoena is not easy and does require $2000. Now, if I had at least $600 of my money back, I would pursue this felon just for the sake of nailing his ass!
Because this felon's identity is masked and PayPal refuses a thorough investigation, I am forced to get my message across to to warn others. I have described my situation to warn others of PayPal's actual company practices for consumers, not what consumers falsely believes.
Now, if PayPal does an investigation on this felon, and help me help authority nail him, I would not be here expressing my dislike about PayPal. Damon, I have nothing against you, it is your company's policy and choice to make a mere 2.9% on my transaction. Had this been just a transaction about a bad product, I would not care as much because I would have worked it out with the seller. But this is a transaction about being defrauded by a felon whom I cannot reach, and as such, PayPal should take it seriously.
[ edited by arurenusan on Dec 11, 2001 01:13 PM ]
posted on December 12, 2001 01:29:13 PM new
"I verified the authenticity of the software with the original maker, and officials of the company confirmed that the product I purchased are both illegal and non-working."
As much as I can feel sorry for you, I do not feel that paypal is the bad guy here. You should direct your anger at the crook that screwed you
Best to report this to ebay [vero program].
Then let the company that puts out the real
product know what is going on, and let them go after ebay.
By law even paypal can not just hand out info, no matter what you may think.
Do wish you the best of luck, hope ebay does kick the louse out.
[ edited by trai on Dec 12, 2001 01:37 PM ]
posted on December 12, 2001 02:00:24 PM new
i agree,paypal chief mission is to provide financil service,not catching crooks.ebay is more suitable to perform this task,with its vero program and co-operation with the maker.
posted on December 12, 2001 02:35:20 PM new
credit cards also provide financial service and their job is not to catch crooks. however, credit cards offer me real fraud protection, not just a claim. you missed my point.
-- arurenu
posted on December 15, 2001 04:46:55 AM new
Sorry, but if you make a purchase for over $600 from somebody without feedbacks, (I've followed your link to the item) don't you think you've just asked for it?
I've had my own frustrations with PayPal, but you just seem to look for somebody to "let of steam"
It is not PayPal's job to verify if a seller has legitimately purchased the items he is reselling
