posted on December 16, 2001 11:26:37 AM new
I watch these boards to be aware of ongoing problems with Paypal or other sites. I have never seen a company trashed as much as Paypal is. I am sure everyone who posts has legitimate problems and I don't want to belittle or downplay anyones' situation. However, I have been doing business with Paypal for 2 years now and have yet to have a problem that wasn't cleared up by searching the site for answers or contacting customer service. The customer service department at Paypal has been very effective in solving my problems and their response time is average in the internet world. As a matter of fact I received a phone call from Paypal customer service on friday December 14th of this year. I just started paying my Ebay fees with my debit card. I only use the debit card for that transaction and no others. Because of this, Paypal customer service called me to verify that I had authorized the transaction and that no one was using my card illegally. I verified that the transaction was correct. The customer service rep stated that she would put that in my file and would not question ebay fees again. She then asked me if I used the card for any other purchases. I told her no and she asked if I would like a call from them if the card was used for anything else other than Ebay fees. I told her I would really appreciate it. She said that I would get a call if that situation ever arised. I have managed a large customer service department for many years and I know good customer service when I experience it. I feel Paypal goes above and beyond to help and assist their customers. At least they have for me. There is so much negative about Paypal that I just wanted to let people know that there are people out there who are happy with the company. Again, just my opinion!!!
posted on December 16, 2001 05:56:38 PM new
some expected too much from a payment service.
have you ever spent time eavesdropping in a police station and hear what goes on-people got scammed on the street,people who thought they have bot the real diamond,real cashmere sweater,cartier watch,people who have their pockets picked,people who got beaten over the head by neighbors,loved ones etc.
they all want the police to do something,how many cases are resolved to their satisfaction??
there is a street in hong kong called HOLLYWOOD STREET and the antiques shops and street stalls and hawkers all claim to have antiques,real antiques as you stroll from one shop to another,you see all these tang dynasty fat court ladies and burial tricolor horses,archaic this and antique that of tang,qing,sung,ming,tsoong,yuan dynasties.
it is like lucky you,the entire 4000 years of chinese civilisation just happened to be on display in a few blocks.
there is a police station nearby and one year it posted a large banner stretching across the entire police building ,it said -BUYER BEWARE,DO NOT LET GREED GET IN THE WAY .
the mood on the street since the display has been sober ,all street hawkers no longer exaggerate what they peddle.
i dont know what has happened,it must be a big scene ,may be someone went to the police and complain,may be someone tried to have it resolved with the seller and there was bloodshed and police came too late.
may be we should have the same banner all across the entire website of ebay -BUYER BEWARE,DO NOT LET GREED GET IN THE WAY OF YOUR BIDDING.
ebay has caveat emptor,it just assumes we have all gone to law school or major in latin in high school.
yes,bring on the police banner ,we need one which is 1000 miles long!!!!!!!
posted on December 17, 2001 09:27:25 AM new
The real issue for most PAYPAL users is not how long you have been without a problem but what happenned once you did have a problem.
Them calling & checking is not a problem.
It only takes 1 bad transaction to change an opinion.
Be it...
PAYPAL
BILLPOINT
C2it
MONEY ORDER
CHECK
whatever.....
People just seem to be more vocal about PAYPAL.
The reason?
I don't know.
But I would suggest it would have to do with the satisfaction level of the parties involved.
posted on December 17, 2001 09:37:19 AM new
paypal has more members than all the others,we just dont hear from the others,i am sure there could be some.there was a thread on billpoint,many sellers were scammed on designer clothes and billpoint just reversed payments taking as much as 12,000 from the sellers,even though some have proof they shipped and someone signed for the goods.
they are talking about a lawsuit against billpoint.
i sense from all these complaints,paypal being a new outfit,has inexperienced customer service staff,plus they are overwhelmed with customer related issues?
posted on December 17, 2001 12:08:38 PM new
I've never had a problem, but I still decided to not use the service after I heard all these complaints on boards, websites, and others. I still can not believe that if the buyer files a quality of goods chargeback they automatically win. Because of this all I need is one buyer who decided he didn't actually want the item, or finds a crack in the box, etc. for a bad transaction. I'm not as worried about my account getting restricted, I never keep anything in it.
posted on December 17, 2001 01:50:36 PM new
as far as i know,paypal does not get involved with QUALITY OF GOODS issue,it is hard to say who said what ,the seller could have shipped the right item and buyer switched or it was carelessly handled and damaged by buyer.
i have some buyers who claimed the item was bent,stained and chipped badly when i shipped them in mint condition,when they call you hear babe crying in the background,things thrown around??
of course then you heard seller shipped a box of rocks??
then there are buyes who buy so much he does not keep track of what he has bot.
american express is the one seller should watch for,it sides with its customers most of the time.
posted on December 18, 2001 08:24:53 AM new
Hi everyone!!! Well it happened to me finally. Yesterday morning I checked my email and sure enough I received an email from Paypal stating that a buyer was attempting to chargeback for an item they had received. Paypal asked me for any supporting information. I emailed a copy of the auction showing the condition of the item, a copy of the insurance receipt from the post office and a copy of the positive feedback I received from the buyer. Buyer remorse!!!! Paypal was fair and prompt. They stated that they would be back to me within 48 hours. My account was not frozen because I completed a large transfer and paid for 2 items during this time. When I checked my email this morning Paypal had responded. They stated that based on my information the chargeback was denied and they suggested to the buyer that they contact me for the insurance information. By the way, I sent 3 emails to the buyer yesterday stating that I would take the item back as long as it was in the same condition as when I shipped it. No response from the buyer, big surprise!!! My point is that Paypal was proactive, responsible, polite and professional. I don't know about anyone else but I couldn't expect anything more.
posted on December 18, 2001 11:32:29 AM new
i find its quite simple paypal is awesome idea but there is NO protection for buyers and sellers just wait and see what happens when you come accross a problem.....30 days investigation period and at the end BOOM more than likely nothing.
posted on December 18, 2001 01:33:36 PM new
While I see how you are satisfied with the results of your situation there is one other thing that can still happen that you & PAYPAL have no control over.
If that buyer paid with his credit card & his credit card company believes he is still entitled to the refund for whatever the reason. They take the money from PAYPAL.
PAYPAL then takes the money from you no matter what the previous results were.
While I hope it does not happen all too many times it does.
posted on December 18, 2001 01:38:41 PM new
GU1HToM, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Some CC companies will do anything for the cardholder, and regularly honor false chargebacks, but if it's a quality of goods issue, the seller automatically loses (with PayPal) with no chance of defending himself. I don't care what the statistics are (where PayPal says the most common chargebacks are Fraud and false nonshipment of goods), the fact that it can happen is enough. I can not afford to ship out items for free.
posted on December 18, 2001 03:56:41 PM new
i am confused,there have been several threads from paypal members who asked paypal to recover their payment made to seller who is also a paypal member due to quality issue-like a different model of laptop computer,riding boots which are old and torn,etc etc.
and paypal reply is that they do not get involved in QUALITY ISSUE.
so if a buyer goes thru its cc issuer and complain about quality of the item,the cc company will do a chargeback to paypal,how is paypal going to turn around and take the fund from the seller if this is A QUALITY ISSUE>
does paypal just eat the loss or does paypal argue with the cc issuer??
posted on December 18, 2001 07:28:55 PM new
PayPal should argue with the CC issuer. If you had a merchant account, you would have a chance to put on a defense, which could include the auction page, stating the condition, warrenties, etc.
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And if the buyer e-mailed the seller saying that he was filing a chargeback because he decided he didn't like the item, even though cc issuers/anyone don't like to get into a he said she said, that should still be submitted as part of the defense. An item that is sold as is could be charged back on a quality of goods issue depending on the cc issuer (if it is broken, etc.). However, for example, if the seller clearly states in his auction that there is a 14 day return policy, and the buyer files a dispute 40 days after he receives the item, then the CC issuer would probably deny the chargeback.
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The point is that sellers should be able to forward any documents relating to the auction, etc. to PayPal, and PayPal should dispute it with the card issuer if the seller wishs. I've heard places on the internet where the buyer e-mailed the seller saying that they didn't like the item (a long time after the transaction) and was disputing it for that reason. The credit card company was usually dumb enough to let it go, probably figuring if it was a false chargeback the seller would dispute it. I admit I don't know about all the details about how credit card chargebacks/disputes work but from what I understand the seller should (is usually able to with a merchant account) be able to respond to chargebacks, but that is impossible with PayPal with a quality of goods issue. <br />
[ edited by andrew123s on Dec 18, 2001 07:29 PM ]
posted on December 18, 2001 07:49:52 PM new
if a seller contacts paypal directly with a quality issue,he/she will be turned down by paypal as it does not get involved with quality issue.
are you saying if buyer goes to her cc company and dispute this item and cc company chargback paypal,then paypal will come to the seller and take the payment away from him because of a quality dispute??
also,dont forget buyer cannot complain and sit on the merchandise at the same time,if 30 days down the road,buyer complains of quality and yet still have the item,he has in fact bot the item.
seller can also refuse to accept the item back,if it is not within his return policy
posted on December 18, 2001 08:27:31 PM new
That is correct, if a buyer files a PayPal buyer complaint, then PayPal will turn it down if it was a quality of goods issue, and it says this in thier terms of service. However, if the person then goes to their cc comapny (or goes to it without filing a buyer compalint) they suck the money out of your account and that is that if it is a quality of goods complaint. It doesn't matter if the buyer still has the item, it doesn't even matter if the buyer keeps the item forever and it worked fine to begin with! If thier cc company allows the chargeback, you lose, automatically. It also doesn't matter if he files a chargeback after the return period. The seller can't refuse to accept a return. If he refuses to accept a return even out of the return policy created by the seller, then the buyer could always file a quality of goods chargeback. Nothing matters. It doesn't matter if your right and their wrong. If they file a quality of goods dispute with their credit card company and their credit card company puts it though, you lose automatically. PayPal does protect you against other chargebacks (fraud/non-shipment of goods) assuming you follow the requirements, but even if it is 100% clear the buyer is pretty much charging it back to get a free item you lose (if its a quality of goods chargeback) since PayPal provides no way of defending yourself against frivilous chargebacks.
[ edited by andrew123s on Dec 18, 2001 08:29 PM ]
posted on December 18, 2001 09:08:38 PM new
PEOPLE.....here is a email address of a man who has a website on the sad expeirences of people who have dealt with "paypal".....he also has SOLUTIONS......well knowledged on this "paypal"....issue.....contact him and he will be more than willing to help [email protected].......
posted on December 19, 2001 06:24:57 AM new
it seems that sellers and buyers should limit the transaction to an amount they can afford to lose when using paypal.
if a seller is serious in becoming a retailer,he should get a merchant account.
one must ask why is a buyer spending 500-3000 dollars buying from an individual
posted on December 19, 2001 09:41:57 AM new
One of the key issues is that PAYPAL wants their customers to use the money in their PAYPAL accounts to pay for transactions rather than paying with a CC.
Why?
Becuase if you use the money in your PAYPAL account & there is a problem you do not have the recourse to get a refund thru your CC.
You are left to the mercy of PAYPAL & whatever decision they make. You have no other options.
Is this a big deal?
According to PAYPAL NO!
According to Customers YES!
PAYPAL states all there BUYER PROTECTION info. But here is the difference.
If a seller has an empty account & you paid with PAYPAL you more than likely will not be able to recover the funds.
While in the same time if you paid directly to a seller with your CC & the same problem arose & you dispute chances are MUCH MUCH better that there will be a recovery of funds.
So if you pay a PAYPAL transaction with a CC you still have the option open. (as a buyer)
But once the buyer's CC decides to reverse the charge on PAYPAL. PAYPAL then takes the money from you if possible.
It has gotten bad enough that now all new signups with PAYPAL actually have to agree to let PAYPAL access there connected bank account just in case there is a chargeback & no money in the PAYPAL account.
I am guessing the in the near future this agreement will be changed to include all PAYPAL account holders & not just the new signups.
posted on December 19, 2001 10:09:34 AM new
i know for retail shops which have merchant accounts,chargeback do hit your bank account,as they deposit fund to your bank account,they can also take fund away from your bank account.
if you move the fund to a different bank account which they have no access to,or just hide it in your mattress,the liability is still there.
you would not be able to conduct business with them anymore,could you open a merchant account with another bank or processor,i dont know ??
posted on December 19, 2001 12:06:30 PM new
You are liable to pay the chargeback, but only after you are given a chance to defend yourself. If they (your merchant account provider) can't get the money back through your bank account I assume they could go through other legal means to get it back. But the point is that they let you tell your side of the story.
PayPal just sucks the money out of your account (the exact words of a PayPal customer service representative) and that is that with a quality of goods issue.
While sellers with a very large amount of business can get a merchant account, it would be impractical for a seller who just sold 10 items or less a month to get one. But if it is an expensive item, one chargeback could mean you lose all profit you made on all the other 9 transactions in that month, and then more (you would have less money at the end of the month than you did at the beginning before doing business). If a seller sells over $40,000 worth of goods a month, then a chargeback or two probably wouldn't hurt the seller much. If a seller sells $300 worth of goods every month, a chargeback or two would hurt him.
posted on December 19, 2001 03:29:53 PM new
there are struggling retailers or ex retailers who are selling on ebay,those who sell electronic goods can easily sell 40,000 a month but it does not mean they can afford a chargeback of say 3000.
unlike those who find their goods in garage or thrift shop,you aint find no sony projector,nikon camera or cisco server with salvation army.
these guys buy wholesale paying like all other retailers pay and willing to make less by selling acution style.
chargeback is psychologically devastating to the sellers,you wonder who can you trust these days??
my cc processor said it can happen within 18 months period,how do you expect us to stay in business,for those who have their cards stolen,they have too many cards in their wallet,if one is stolen ,they may never notice until statement arrives.
