posted on February 25, 2002 01:02:29 AM new
Dear Paypal,
AboutPaypal.org refered me to this message board. Unfortunately I am a victim of Paypal's very misleading regulations. Due to September 11 our company had some delivery delays, therefore I got a number of complaints. Now most of the cases are solved. Feel free to check it and you will see that we have an acceptable complaint rate. Just have a look at the thousands of transactions we have generated and compare it with the number of pending complaints. Some of our customers who cancelled their payment still owe us money. They received the goods but never released the payment. A number of my customers tried to reverse their charge back through their credit card company but Paypal did NOT follow up. I got nothing but unfair and false excuses like "Sorry, it is too late, your case is closed" or "Sorry, we wait for the credit card company to contact us" ....
On the top of this unpleasant situation Paypal put a rolling reserve of USD7,000.00 on our account. I told Charles Spencer from Paypal several times that I want to have the rolling reserve removed or at least lowered. Charles answered always like a machine: "Your shipments can not be tracked online, therefore you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy...". This policy is bogus! We ship our goods by International Air Mail, this reasonable service can not be tracked online but 99.99% of the goods still arrive! I had customers telling Paypal that they got the merchandise but Paypal still did not give us our money back. Mr. Spencer refused to have direct communication with us. There is no excuse for this.
I urgently need the money to do business and pay my employees. Please help me to get rid off the rolling reserve. Please note: we don't want to close our account, we want nothing else than being treated like a regular customer with no rolling reserve and a normal discount rate.
If we can not solve this I may be forced to put this case on the next level. I do know that Paypal is currently being investigated by regulatory authorities in four states. Also I am aware of a class action lawsuit that has been filed against Paypal by Jacoby & Meyers. Furthermore US-Attorney Peter Albrecht has sued PayPal in the Honolulu District Court of Hawaii and has published that he is available to proceed with a class action suit in a federal court.
Please help and thx for your understanding and support. I am looking forward to find a solution.
I can post the response from the merchant review team if it helps. I was cc:'d on the response that you would have received, as well as why there is a rolling reserve.
posted on February 25, 2002 02:19:22 PM new
Oh you do NOT want to be "treated like a regular customer"!!! I'm a regular customer and they continue to treat me the same way ... ignore ignore ignore. Won't answer emails, won't answer snail mail, and won't speak to me on the phone.
BTW Damon ... your "30-day investigation" is up tomorrow (even tho PayPal's TOS clearly says they will notify you within 10 days). Is PayPal gonna return the money the HACKER stole from my account???
posted on February 25, 2002 03:19:51 PM new
Dear Damon,
thx for your response. Please forward my letter to Charles. I can not reach him through your contact form. Thx in advance.
Regards,
Bernhard
Dear Charles,
thx for your message. Do not question my intention to work with you in good faith. Please question why Paypal does not release Shopping Cart Payment Received (ID #12W83715210162302) to my account. This payment (USD746) from Lilia Ledezma on October 31 2001 is just one example where Paypal refuses to give me my money back although the buyer has confirmed several times (by phone/letter/through his bank/email) that the merchandise was received. Please forward this case to the appropriate department and have it resolved. Thx in advance. And btw there are several cases pending where Paypal keeps my money although the buyers initiated a reversal of the chargebacks.
Charles, please have a look at our volume, then calculate the complaint rate. It is within the international credit card issuer regulations. Yes, we got many complaints because of the terror attacks. Please check the details and you will see the peak of the complaints are directly related to the war against terror (Sept 11 and anthrax attacks). Have a look at the complaints regarding orders during September/October and early November. Also please differ between warrantable complaints and complaints, which are not warrantable and already solved. Some complaints are actually filled against Paypal not against me. A number of my customers were complainting to you by email because Paypal did not release the payment to me. Thx for your understanding and please note: we are willing to do everything to settle all pending disputes.
Furthermore I would highly appreciate if you could provide me with your phone number. You are acting on behalf of my money, so I think it is just reasonable to give me 5 minutes of your time. Please accept my offer of open communication. I am looking forward to give you detailed information about our serious problems with Paypal's services and of course about the performance of our service. A neutral conversation will provide both of us with a much better understanding of the situation.
Regards,
Bernhard
>From: PayPal Customer Service <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: PayPal Customer Service <[email protected]>
>To: Bernhard Kaufmann <[email protected]>
>Subject: re: serious Paypal problem (KMM17445458V69626L0KM)
>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:52:45 -0800
>
>Dear Bernard,
>
>I am writing to you in response to the email you recently sent to Damon
>requesting your collateral to be lifted. We have explained to you several
>times that your account has received excessive complaints, and that it was
>on the verge of being closed due to the excessive complaint rate. We were
>also quite clear that we would close your account should you choose not to
>accept the rolling reserve. Your account has received in excess of $10,000
>in complaints within the last 6 months, and as such cannot be permitted to
>operate without a rolling reserve.
>
>At this point I have to question your intentions of working with PayPal in
>good faith. You have had the reserve explained to you several times, and
>are now apparently attempting to circumvent our risk management by trying
>to contact customer service departments that clearly do not establish the
>reserve. In addition, your statements to Damon that the complaints are an
>isolated incident due to September 11 are simply not true. You have
>received complaints in a consistent basis, including a high complaint rate
>through February.
>
>I am once again informing you that if you wish to use PayPal there will be
>a rolling reserve, and it is not negotiable. We have been quite clear in
>telling you this several times in the past, and we are once again
>re-iterating that point. Should you improve your business and reduce the
>complaint rate, we would be happy to review the business in six months
>time. However the reduction must be lasting and permanent, and we have
>thus far not seen any improvement.
>
>Sincerely,
>Charles
>PayPal Merchant Fraud Department
posted on February 25, 2002 04:53:37 PM new
I honestly do not know why anyone would put up with this despicable company called paypal
By the way, they hold your money and eat the interest happily.. no wonder they have a rolling reserve on your account.. all they need is an excuse..
posted on February 26, 2002 01:16:32 AM new
Hi Sheila12,
The investigation can take up to 45 days. I would be more than willing to have someone from that department contact you about the claim. You would need to send me your email address.
Our system has not been hacked. Please review our SECURITY section on password security. And please do not login at any site that is not www.paypal.com (for other parties that may be reading the posts).
posted on February 26, 2002 06:37:30 AM new
Okay Damon ... have "someone from that department contact me" (not that I'm going to hold my breath tho). [email protected]
Now please explain why your TOS clearly states "We will tell you the results of our investigation within ten (10)
business days after we hear from you, and will correct any error
promptly." 10 days was up 20 days ago!!! And then you post on the forums that an investigation can take 30 days. Let me give you my surprised look now: ;oP Guess what??? 30 days is up today!!! And now it will be 45 days.
I have reviewed your "security section" and it's as good as your TOS ("We will tell you the results of our investigation within ten (10) business days...". I did not give out my password. I did not store my password on my computer. I did not go to any "spoof site". Blah blah blah. But suddenly $2,950 was transferred out of my account. And I'm not the only one ... read the ebay community forums! If PayPal would spend half the time discovering how their system was hacked as they do in trying to convince everyone it wasn't hacked, this could be stopped. If this wasn't a hacker it was an inside job.
posted on February 26, 2002 09:54:15 AM new
Who knows? A company that operates as a bank but is able to escape regulation is not to be trusted in my opinion. PayPal can just make up their own rules and change them any time they want to. I won't trust them with another dime of my money.
posted on February 26, 2002 10:33:21 AM new
Dear Damon,
thx for forwarding my request. You obviously try to help people.
Charles did not answer my question regarding "Shopping Cart Payment Received (ID #12W83715210162302)". This case is still pending. I am waiting for my money or at least an official result. Could you please look into it?
This case (payment of USD746 from Lilia Ledezma on October 31 2001) is just one example where Paypal refuses to give me my money back although the buyer has confirmed several times (by phone/letter/through his bank/email) that the merchandise was received. Please forward this case to the appropriate department and have it resolved. Thx in advance.
We have addressed this question more times than I care to count, and once
again I will inform you that the collateral is not negotiable. May I
remind you that you were informed in November that your account was on the
verge of being closed due to the complaints of non-delivery, and that the
only reason it was not closed is because we applied collateral and a higher
fee. You are not being victimized or treated unfairly; instead we have
gone out of our way to maintain your account despite the complaints. We
will not do business with you under any other terms, and we will not
re-evaluate the situation for another 6 months. Do not contact us again
regarding this matter until June, and if you wish to see a lower
collateral, improve and reduce the complaints.
Sincerely,
Charles
PayPal Merchant Fraud Department
posted on March 12, 2002 05:21:54 PM new
A quote from a post made on this thread:
~~~
:posted on February 26, 2002 01:16:32 AM
Hi Sheila12,
The investigation can take up to 45 days. I would be more than willing to have someone from that department contact you about the claim. You would need to send me your email address.
~~~
As usual, no one from PayPal has contacted me. In fact, it's rather obvious to me and everyone here that I'm being totally ignored. Big news flash Damon ... today is Day #45 since I reported my PayPal account was hacked (or in your words "compromised". And to this day the ONLY response I've got besides automated responses are here on public forums. Oops, my mistake ... you did send me 2 emails ... one saying when I first reported this I *SHOULD* have been told I would need to fill out an affadavit and police report. And another one saying you don't have the email address or phone number for your infamous "fraud department" but would forward my email to them. (I still wonder how you can do that since you don't have their email addy???).
Of course I don't expect a reply to this. Cuz geez, what can you say? Want to remind me again to protect my password and that now this investigation will take 60 days? Save it.
I never thought I'd agree with you Damon, but you may be right about something ... maybe PayPal hasn't been hacked. Evidently this was an inside job right there at PayPal.
posted on March 12, 2002 08:38:21 PM new
Damon, you state the investigation time can take up to 45 days. Here is what your TOS says:
If we need more time, however, we may take up to forty-five (45) calendar days to investigate the complaint or question. If we decide to do this, we will provisionally credit your transaction account within ten (10) business days for the amount you think is in error, so that you may have the use of the money during the time it takes us to complete our investigation.
Ok... so why didn't you give her the money in question so she can use it while you take forever to investigate?
However, at this point thats moot, since you have already taken 45 days and you still haven't finished investigating. You didn't provide the money to be used, and it is now after 45 days, and she doesn't have the money or an explanation from you. What is going on?
posted on March 12, 2002 08:54:12 PM new
Thanks Andrew, but Damon isn't going to give you an answer as to why they don't follow their own TOS. I have asked repeatedly this same question and no one from PayPal will give me an answer.
I did call PayPal tonight on their toll-free number ... 1-888-221-1161. In fact, I've called FOUR times tonight. The first 3 times the same guy (George) verified who I was and promptly disconnected me. Somehow I got the feeling that was NOT an accident. The fourth time I called I wasn't so nice. This time I spoke to someone named Jay. I explained they can put me on hold and disconnect me all they want ... hey, I have nothing else to do and they do have to pay for the phone call. But this time the guy said he would "escalate my call to management" and I could expect a call from someone tomorrow. Yeah right. I did ask this guy how long an investigation takes and was told 35 days. (Hey, a NEW answer!). I pointed out their TOS specifically said they would give me a response within 10 days and he said he didn't know anything other than it took 35 days. I said this was Day #45 and his response was "Well, I guess you'll be getting your money back pretty quick then." Oh yeah, I'm sitting here holding my breath.
After I hung up I got an email from PayPal asking details of the 4 unauthorized transactions. The email said to reply to that email, which I did. But then I immediately get one of their infamous automated emails back, telling me if I want to contact them that I need to log into my account and use the webform. Yet another classic example of their "new and improved customer service".
posted on March 26, 2002 06:28:55 PM new
Welcome to the club, Sheila. Too bad you had to go though the PayPal "initiation" to get here, though.
I do hope you haven't relied on PayPal totally on trying to recover your funds? Your bank should have been contacted personally by now, letting them know of the unauthorized transaction.
If you haven't by now, do it- Having waited 45 days, it may be too late for them to do anything now, but at least at least ask to sit down with a manager and talk to them about it.
***
Charles is a piece of work. I guess "Customer Service" has completely dropped the pretense of actually being on "our side."
. I did not give out my password. I did not store my password on my computer. I did not go to any "spoof site". Blah blah blah. But suddenly $2,950 was transferred out of my account. And I'm not the only one ... read the ebay community forums! If PayPal would spend half the time discovering how their system was hacked as they do in trying to convince everyone it wasn't hacked, this could be stopped. If this wasn't a hacker it was an inside job.