posted on December 28, 2000 10:03:55 PM new
I have two ebay user ids and would like to revamp the terms of service for the new year. I'm tired of slow pays.
On the first id, I have, "Payment to be postmarked within ten days". I'm thinking of changing it to... Your payment is expected within ten days OR Your payment is due in our possession in ten days. I've seen both of these used and am wondering about using them. Would you be offended by those terms?
On the second id, I offered the chance to pay in 14 days. This was a new account that now has a FB rating of 101 with no negatives. It's now time to lower the time allotment on this to ten days. Should I use the word "postmarked", "expected", or "due" in the terms of service on this one? When I get a deadbeat on this account, I have to wait 14 days and then another 10 days to claim FVF on nonpayment. Twenty four days is too long to wait to relist an item after being unable to collect on payment.
Also, I want to gently remind the bidder that ALL nonpayment is reported to ebay. Currently I use this wording, " . Please do not bid if you can not, or are not going to complete the sale, as unfortunately, I've been forced to report all non-payment to eBay". Would you continue with this or change it to somehting else?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!
posted on December 28, 2000 10:39:31 PM new
I agree with Amy. I've never set a time limit. Most people want their item quickly, so they pay quickly. The rest are deadbeats or slow-payers from the start, but we just don't find out right away. Setting a time limit for them won't change a thing. They don't care.
posted on December 28, 2000 10:52:01 PM new
I don't think anything you say in your terms can keep the deadbeats away, but it can keep honest bidders away.
posted on December 28, 2000 11:08:54 PM new
Ditto to the last Four comments. In over two years, no mention of time or payment limits appear in my auctions.
Just for me, personally, it goes against the grain...not customer friendly.
posted on December 28, 2000 11:18:44 PM new
sorry guys can't agree on this one. I was always easy going, let um pay whenever and that is what 30% did...whenver or never. My new batch of auctions ended with new terms and out of 20 auctions, 18 ended with bids, sent out the EOAs, and within 20 minutes I had 16 replys to my eoa. The mail was cookin" like never before. My terms: Payment is to be received within 10 days. If not received within this time-frame, unless other arrangements have been made, I will file for FVF and leave appropriate feedback, and the item will be relisted. Then I add in big letters...*ONLY SERIOUS BIDDERS PLEASE* I am just sick and tired of coddeling anyone! They are adults, or are supposed to be, and I refuse to wipe their noses. Bid, pay and get on with it. Period! These are my first auctions back from Christmas break and they are just going wild,and responses better then ever before. Might sound harsh to you, but no brick and morter shop would put up with it, so why should we? This works for me and I am going to continue it. By using the other easy going method, I filed on 9 deadbeats in the month of December. No time for it. In and out the door.
posted on December 28, 2000 11:30:52 PM new
Furkidmom, I am going to try your method. I've tried to be a nice guy and I am getting way too many deadbeats. I'm concerned about turning honest bidders away, but at this point can things get any worse? I don't know but I'll never find out if I don't try something new. Thanks for the tip and I'll let you know.
posted on December 28, 2000 11:36:54 PM new
furkidmom
I second that:
not in my auctions only in EOA
this is what mines says (with a outgoing friendly prewarm up) :
" If I do not hear from you
within 10 business days, I will submit for my seller fees back and the item will be relisted. Period. I will
not bother chasing you down for payment because you forgot or didn't respond to my messages. We are
all adults, I expect us all to be responsible for our duties. "
posted on December 28, 2000 11:45:33 PM new
You have to set the terms of your auctions as to what you feel comfortable with.
I believe in the "time limit method", because as you all know, if you don't lay the law, people will take advantage of you.
I don't have time for payment to drag on for weeks for a $2 item or even a $20 item. The more time I spend babysitting a customer to get their payment that they will never send isn't worth it to me.
I'm in Japan (military address) so my time frame is a little different. I say to mail payment within 7 days to be received within 20 days from the end of auction. The 20 day point sets the time where I file the reminder to pay with eBay.
When payments come in, I can see the postmark, so that tells me how serious this customer was about getting their payment to me. I don't complain about it not being postmarked within 7 days from EOA as long as it arrives within 20 days.
...and what I do with a NPB after the 20 day point depends on their response to the reminder to pay.
So, my point is that when someone has not paid within your set time limits, you have something to refer them to instead of the buyer thinking that they can send the payment whenever they feel like it.
posted on December 28, 2000 11:54:54 PM new
Afterthis past month I've instituted what I'll call a zero tolerance policy towards deadbeats. I am now checking the feedback of bidders towards the end of the auction cycle.If there is something in the feedback that sends up red flags I'll cancel the bid and tell the bidder to take a hike. I had this happen today with a fellow who had gotten two negs for not paying in the last month or so.He must have had 8 similar negs total. What got me was this guy's arrogance in responding and leaving retaliatory comments. I cancelled the bid. A few hours later he sent an email asking what the problem was, as if he couldn't tell from the notice ebay should have sent. That's right, play dumb and maybe you can b.s. your way back. I sent him an email earlier explaining, but this bounced.Apparently he was using the old spam block trick to avoid my contacting him. This jerk went back and tried to bid again and I cancelled again. Now this got him riled.He sent me a nasty whining email about how he was glad he wasn't bidding,etc., etc.. I told HIM to grow up then put my spam block up. Life is too blasted short. For once I felt good about what I'd done.A new ebay bidder [woman] won this at the price he would have paid,so I am glad it turned out as it did, but I could do without people like this. I have learned a hard lesson that the bulk of the jerks I've had to deal with had major red flags in their feedback and I'm paying more attention to this now. Just about everymajor problem I've had was with a jerk who had similarly not paid other sellers, and you could tell from feedback.
posted on December 29, 2000 01:31:28 AM new
Put on your bidder's hat. Would you bid on such an auction? I pass anything with the slightest threat. That's a seller that spells trouble in my book. I simply say in my actions that I appreciate being paid promptly.
My EOA asks for an acknowledgement. In 5 days I send a reminder if I haven't heard from them. I almost never get a non-payer who has responded.
posted on December 29, 2000 01:57:59 AM new
Hi All,
For my Australian buyers I have added the following to my auctions:-
Payment is due within 10 days or the item will be relisted.
I don't mention negative feedback or reporting people. I have found no need too in the past and don't expect to in the future. I think politeness goes a long way in a business like this. Being straight to the point but not agressive is definately the key. For my US/Canadian Buyers - I ask for payment within 21 days. In the month before Christmas I changed this to 28 days. I thought that was fair and so did the customer. Well thats my 5c worth.
posted on December 29, 2000 04:40:02 AM new
yeager -
"On the first id, I have, "Payment to be postmarked within ten days". I'm thinking of changing it to... Your payment is expected within ten days OR Your payment is due in our possession in ten days." "It's now time to lower the time allotment on this to ten days."
WELL ... if you can GUARANTEE that the USPS will be able to get the buyer's mail to you within your time frame of 10 days, I see no problem with it. However, expecting the buyer to somehow make miracles happen in the mail system is ludicrous. Once I dump my envelope down the slot, it's out of my hands. Seeing this on an auction would make me wary of bidding, because this sort of seller usually is out of touch with reality and difficult to deal with.
Unless it were REALLY scarce and at a REALLY good price, I'd look elsewhere.
posted on December 29, 2000 04:47:22 AM new
Why keep the bidder guessing as to what you expect of him, any more than what s/he can expect of you ("sorry, no returns," "satisfaction 100% guaranteed", "I ship UPS only", "Bidder pays $x shipping"?
TELL the bidder when you want payment. If you don't state anything about when it's due, and three weeks or a month passes and you file NPB, the bidder can justifiably respond "Hey! You never said I had to have it in by any particular date! What gives??". If YOU decide not to enforce your 10-day policy, that's up to you.
I do not understand why some folks find blandly stating one's expectations "threatening". Since s/he isn't keeping me guessing, I'd describe such a seller as "polite".
posted on December 29, 2000 05:37:01 AM new
Perhaps it's just me but I don't find "I must have your money within ten days or I will neg you and report you to eBay" to be polite.
posted on December 29, 2000 05:43:17 AM new
One thing I wonder about: will buyers bother to read very much verbiage? Furkidmom seems to be getting good results with her EOC wording. I feel like I'm lucky to get an email response that includes both a shipping address AND total being paid. I offer both book rate and Priority and like to have my labels ready ahead of time, but very often people won't tell me which method they intend to pay for.
So I wonder if I add some more sentences about when payment has to arrive, if they will even read that.
posted on December 29, 2000 05:44:52 AM new
HCQ - My thoughts exactly.
I simply state "Payment is expected within ten days of auction's end".
I will agree that those auction ads that start off with all kinds of rules and regulations in big letters and then finally get around to the item for auction seven large paragraphs later are maybe not the customer friendliest.
posted on December 29, 2000 06:36:45 AM new
I agree with leaving no terms. Frankly by listing and enforcing terms you leave your self open to return NF and unruly customer experiances. Rightly or wrongly.
And frankly not everyone who doesn't pay in 10 days is a deadbeat? It's part of the game. Not everyone's life depends on an ePAY auction win?
I have over 2000 feedback ratings on ePAY and Amazon as a seller mostly. I buy on the net too and sometimes it takes a few days to have a payment processed. Sometimes a letter is lost by the posties, sometimes S&*T happens? Not most times, but on occasion?
If you draw a line in the sand it's gonna get crossed, as you will be if you use a hardass policy.
You're right about buyers being responsible but don't start comparing service over the net to Bricks and Mortar as it's kinda dumb. There're advantages and disadvantages to both and if you're that desperate for quick payments you probably won't survive in the jungle that long anyway.
posted on December 29, 2000 06:54:13 AM new
I think the decision on whether to be easy-going in your stated terms, or whether you must sound a bit stricter and no-nonsense depends very much on what you sell and the maturity level of your buyers.
If you sell items that appeal to older, more mature adults, you can take a more laid-back attitude. If a lot of your bids come from the younger crowd, you probably need to be a bit firmer.
You could have a different template made up for those auctions that you know will appeal to a less mature audience.
posted on December 29, 2000 07:04:57 AM new
keziak
You said it perfectly. I find about 60% of my bidders hardly read the description, and definitely don’t' read the TOS. The same with the letter of congratulations, and payment info.
How do I know, all the needless questions sent in e-mails asking the particulars regarding the item, or TOS, which was clearly in the AD. So, alas, put what you want, no one reads much of it anyway.
Also, in my 5+ years I have tried about every method and statement possible, and found it doesn't really matter what I put, most people do as they wish, regardless – particularly when it relates to the timely method in which they will pay.
BUTI am revamping the TOS this year and making them very short, since I don't see the point in much, since no one seems to read them. This year our TOS will be extremely brief – no threats, just a few statements.
posted on December 29, 2000 07:13:16 AM newWHAT I'D LIKE TO FIND IS: a way to get through to bidders/winners, that they are NOT the only buyer in the world, and that if they don't put the item number & auction on their e-mail's I won't have any idea what they won or when, or how to answer their question.
AND WHEN THEY SEND IN PAYMENT without the item number and auction, I still have little way to identify their items - ALSOfor some, it would be nice if they would put their name and address on their MO's. BASICALLY, quit assuming you are a seller’s only customer, and put item and name of auction on EVERY E-MAIL AND PAYMENT.
Of course I know whatever I put in the TOS won't be read, but this to me is the MOST annoying thing a buyer can do.
posted on December 29, 2000 08:51:48 AM new
Just to clarify a bit.
Twin> Honest bidder will not be turned away for the simple reason and the operative word is they are honest! Do let us know how your no nonsense approach works for you as I think this is what this board is all about. What works for who and we all win in the long run.
jwpc> How do you know they are not reading it and ignoring it?
gc2> Touche'!!! Exactly! We make a bill because we want the service and are expected to pay for it, period!
I also have right in my actions in red letters the word *require!* I require return email with shipping information within 3 days of auctions end, and payment received within 10 days of EOA. Everything is right up front with the bidders and they, if they have a brain in their heads, know by this no nonsense approach that I too am a responsible seller. Listen folks, the other way just did not work, for me and we all have to do what works for each of us. The last 2 addys came in this morning and 9 of them are already paid by paypal and are going out the door today! Get this! One woman needs the item tomorrow night, and was frantic! I was on the phone with her at midnight, and she sent express mail money for the product through Paypal. It will be in her hands at noon tomorrow, and it is going out in the noon mail today. I will let you know if the USPS keeps its word about overnight delivery!
If people pass on my auction because they are offended by my straight forward approach, then these are people, in my estimatin, that would also expect me to gift wrap and ribbon their purchases as well. People will always complain. I hate cursers in auctions, I hate graphics, I detest long rules, I don't like Caps, The package had too much tape, and someone even complained about a coupla ants in a pizza box! No time for that stuff! Again, Bid, Pay, and out the door! Are you insulted if you go through a door in a brick and morter shop and the dang alarm goes off and they ask you to step back so they can check you out? Do you avoid that store? NO! It is added security for that establishment, and we must do what we have to do for added security for our online businesses. We all win! MHO
posted on December 29, 2000 12:02:49 PM new
Well, everyone's got to do what they feel comfortable with, I haven't used a time limit in two years and I don't expect to start now.
Here's a tip: If you "know" that your buyer is a deadbeat you don't HAVE to wait until you file NPB to relist. You can relist 30 seconds after the auction closes if you want to; but you had better be sure it's a real deadbeat.
You only have to wait for the FVF.
--------------
Don't take life so serious, it ain't nohow permanent.
posted on December 29, 2000 02:00:34 PM new
yeager: I have two ebay user ids and would like to revamp the terms of service for the new year. I'm tired of slow pays.
Just my opinion...but these long TOSs, when I am browsing eBay, result in no bids by me.
The honest buyers don't need to be lectured; the deadbeats don't care about your terms; honest bidders are just as likely to hit the 'back' button when they are being lectured to.
posted on December 29, 2000 02:30:31 PM new
Excellent topic.
Buying and selling on eBay, I don't list terms.
If the items are common, any hint of a threat or long winded terms...I pass on.
I'm not sure if there is any correlation between the two, but from reading these chat lines, it appears that those with many deadbeats offer items readily available elsewhere.
Even with the collectibles, if I see a longer terms and conditions text than the actual description, than I pass on.
Great topic...thanks...
posted on December 29, 2000 05:59:04 PM new
1) You can't expect payment "to be received" within 10 days, even from 100% honest bidders. I had 40+ winners from auctions closing Dec 17th. The last 3 days have brought me envelopes post marked the 19th, 20th and 21. Today.. I got one post marked the 18th! If I had negged that guy and relisted I would have been the fool.
By putting a "received by" date you're only going to ---- off the legit buyers and do nothing about the deadbeats
2) Stop threatening your bidders.. It's true that you will loose more LEGIT bidders than you'll loose DEADBEATS. Deatbeats bid *regardless* of the terms, Legits bid *based* on the terms.
3) Keep your terms to those that TRUELY matter and are enforceable. I used to have a few more than I do now (but never threatened which many do, or run on and on and on like many other do).
Right now, here's what mine says:
Prepayment by Money Order preferred - Item(s) shipped within 1 to 4 days of payment receipt
Prepayment by Personal Check also accepted - May be held up to 14 days to clear
Bidder's with U.S. Shipping Addresses Only - Sorry, no C.O.D.
"Working on Arrival" warranty only - Please E-mail within 7 days of receipt if it's DOA
That's it. Nothing else at all. No threats of negative feedback, payment due dates, relisting, etc.. (And also, though I no longer accept PayPal or Xpath (or any others), I don't say I don't accept them... I say what I do accept)
I put in what I choose to weed out the bidders I want to weed out without rejecting the ones that would be turned off by my terms.
I'm happy to loose people who want to ship COD, or are from outside the US or want me to warrant the product for 10 years... To me, they're more touble than it's worth. However, I think what's left is clear, concise and not threatening in any way.
(And in case you're curious, I mainly sell 20 year old video game type stuff... things that either work when I ship or don't 99.5% of the time.. So the DOA warranty thing is fitting in this case)
posted on December 29, 2000 08:34:27 PM new
Any store you go into and shop has a store policy. I also feel that the buyer has a right to know your policy. If you are the type who don't want to buy from someone who lets you know there policy then you didn't want what they were selling. Or maybe you can't follow there policy.
We all have had dead beat buyers who make us wait, and at the same time tell us the check is in the mail, which by the way never comes.
So if you state your terms and they are not followed Then your buyer is not a serious buyer.
Example: My listing did not say check will be held for clearence 7-10 days. My Buyer sent a check and wanted his item in 4 days to be at his house because he wanted to show his parents it when they came. I told him I need to hold the check for 7-10 days. He reminded me that my listing did not state that and if it did state that he would have sent a money order. He called me on the phone to talk about this, well I told him I must have forgotten to list the 7 - 10 day wait. Well, THAT LEFT ME STANDING OUT IN THE COLD...so I said I would ship his item, he was happy, and his check did clear and all went well, but you never know.
So Now I put everything in my listing about my policy, and there are no unanswered questions for the buyer.
posted on December 29, 2000 08:58:09 PM new
"The honest buyers don't need to be lectured; the deadbeats don't care about your terms; honest bidders are just as likely to hit the 'back' button when they are being lectured to."
I really have to agree with this!! If I come across an auction with lots of lots of lecturing about how many bad checks they have gotten or the problems they have had with PayPal or whatever, I just won't bid!! I would have to really want something BAD!! to bid.
BUT...to be fair to all who disagree, so much depends on what you are selling and the price of things you are selling. I sell mostly clothing and they usually sell between $5 and $20. I can afford to be laid back about $5 items (I don't hold checks or anything, although I do state in my auction that personal checks may be held) If I was selling higher priced items, I might have to change my habits. I have had only a couple of deadbeats and never a bounced check (although I know my time is coming, I only have 111 feedbacks).
?
