posted on December 31, 2000 07:21:59 PM new
Let me tell you my experience and see if you have similar ones.
My step-sister has a huge business selling craft items most of which are seasonal items having to do with holidays. She has bought hundreds of items on eBay since I showed it to her but is still waiting for me to "take a few days and come down to Florida to show her how to sell"
I work part time at a little business and the boss often comments on things I have listed but he has never bid on an item. Ever.
I am selling items for thousands of dollars at 10 and 15% commission for several people locally who find the process of registering and making a listing too confusing and difficult.
That is 5 - there are several more.
Does everyone have a body of lurkers and fearfull people they know who just won't take the plunge to get involved?
I would be concerned about the liability of this.
Could you clarify a little bit more how you do this? Do people come to you? Do you handle the shipping etc?
posted on December 31, 2000 07:42:52 PM new
That is great!
I have done it, selling expensive items. But it got to be too tedious for me. I was not finding enough time to do my own; I suppose I just did not have the patience to do someone else's work...
When you consider the liability, the number of trips to PO to ship, the writing the ads and upload the pics...your 15% is a little low.
But I am glad it is working for you...A prosperous New Year to you.
posted on December 31, 2000 07:55:47 PM new
Most of the selling I have done for others are cars - so shipping is not a problem. They have to come pick it up or send a commercial carrier, and the owners actually handle it.
The only problem I have had is one time I had a bidder for a car but had to cancel his bid and end the auction because the owners mother brow-beat him into selling it to his Uncle. Even then he paid me $100 for my time and trouble of making the pics etc. I am supposed to do a set of valuable racing wheels for a fellow that should go for about $2400.00 next week if all goes well. I do this as a business with full record keeping. It is not a closet cleaning hobby.
But what I am wondering is if you are all finding so many that can't DO IT themselves?
posted on December 31, 2000 07:55:50 PM new
I think the main point is interesting: plenty of people are aware of ebay but may not be fully operational yet. The step-sister may simply not be ready to deal with the ramifications on selling online, if she is used to craft shows or whatever. The boss may be somewhat interested but just not feel any particular need to buy online.
In my experience this past year, a whole lot of folks jumped onto the ebay bandwagon. Some of us started out selling our own things and graduated to serious buying for re-sale. Others are still in the collecting phase. Then there is my brother who can see dollar signs but isn't willing to put the work into actually producing his "great idea" for an item to sell.
posted on December 31, 2000 08:02:36 PM new
Keep in mind this is not an untap market for ebay many buyers sell for other dont forget to check your state regulations many state require if you handle other people money goods and trnsactions to be a liecenced auctioneer even to sell on ebay.
Once you handle other peoples goods and money its best to be up on all the regulation it only takes one person you deal with to get upset and turn you in to have the state come in and confiscate the inventory you have even the stuff that belongs to others.
posted on December 31, 2000 08:13:11 PM new
Make sure you see the product and make sure it is in the condition it was described. I bought a item a few months back that was a piece of junk. The person explained to me his cousin sent him the doctored picture and the description and he listed it. He came close to getting a bad fat and dirty neg out of the deal. He refunded all of my money including my shipping so I didn't hammer him. Remember it is you reputation at stake.
As far as cost have a minimum of $10 or $15 or whatever you time is worth. Then charge the percentage if it is over that.
[ edited by majesticman on Dec 31, 2000 08:16 PM ]
posted on December 31, 2000 08:41:50 PM new
This is interesting. It turned into a thread about selling for others which has some good advise, but what I was trying to explore is if you each find a body of people who are aware of eBay but for one reason or another don't actually use it.
posted on December 31, 2000 08:43:41 PM new
You haven't got the merchandise in hand so have no control over how it's stored or shipped, or even if the pix are truly representational (e.g. hidden flaws), and you're charging only 15% commission?
I'd suggest YOU are the "huge, untapped market". The average consignment shop gets 40% of the gross, no matter how big the sale.
posted on December 31, 2000 09:03:31 PM new
I know lot of people who know about ebay yahoo and online sales.
I know alot of people who think what I do here online is nuts. on the other hand these same people and other give me things not to sell for them they just give it to me say its yours.
Genrally these people know about these things online and want nothing to do with a computer and could careless most still feel computer are more of a fad then amature radio
and will vanish while we all sleep one night.
posted on December 31, 2000 10:02:36 PM new
Well HCQ I am fairly happy. I have about a half hour in taking the pics and another half hour in listing. I see the car or item myself
and have never had any problems with the owner wanting me to not disclose any defects.
These kind of items - cars - it is well understood that the buyer is very much responsible for exaimining the item themselves and I encourage them to inspect it on site. It is also always admitted that there may be possible unknown defects and that the car is sold as is with no warranty.
I made $675.00 on my last sale with about an hour and a half of work. That is enough for me at 15%. If I wanted 40% it would price me out of this market. You are not going to be able to buy cars cheap enough to allow that.
I had a fellow wanting to sell a $30,000 dollar Mercedes last week and I would have been happy to sell it for 10% but he had a customer see it and buy it at his shop before I could get down there and shoot pics and get it listed. $3,000 sounds like good money to me for at the max 2 or 3 hours of work.
I am not dealing with strangers who come to me with one car. These are all brick and mortar businesses who have been there for years and I have done business with locally and we have a relationship so I am confident they are going to be there next week or next month. I had another dealer - a towing company - inquire about working together and he was not willing to sign a contract with terms obligating him to be responsible for
holding the car available through the auction and specifying my agent relationship and fee structure so we are not doing business. I am not a complete idiot. I did get advice from an attorney and a local licenced auctioneer
before doing this to make sure I did not need an auto dealer's license. The auctioneer has since sold through me online and was happy with the expense compared to transporting the car to a physical auction. I never have title to the car and I never handle the money. I just get a commission check after the owner and buyer complete the sale. Just like eBay.
posted on December 31, 2000 10:19:06 PM new
dman3 - If someone thinks computers are a fad they must have dedellyboppers sticking out of their head and have just landed here on earth. That is wild. I can't imaigine anyone thinking like that, but that is exactly what I was wondering. Just an unexpected answer!
posted on January 1, 2001 06:51:15 AM new
my father-in-law equates the exponential use of computers to the cb radio craze 25 years ago. there's a retired democrat for you!
posted on January 1, 2001 07:10:05 AM new
gravid:
Great business! I've considered this myself when I finally quit my job in the spring. Can you share a little more information? What do you charge if the car fails to sell?
I sold a car of my own on ebay. The buyer took a bus from Pennsylvania to Florida to pick it up. I was amazed that he would buy a car sight unseen and travel that far to get it. It was only a Dodge Caravan, a very common vehicle.
posted on January 1, 2001 07:14:01 AM new
I know a large number of people who are totally aware of on line sales, but have never tired it - or tried once and just didn't like it or found it too time consuming.
We taught a class for a few weeks at our antique shop on "How To Sell On Line," of all those who came only one person actually went on to sell on any consistent basis, and she is a minor part timer, in my opinion.
I find that of those we know who know of on line sales, and have items they "could" sell, but don't sell on line, they feel that it is some magical place, which requires some unique talent which they don't possess.
It is beyond me why more people aren't selling on line - but what I believe is, many try once or twice, discover it takes more time and interaction with the buyer than they like, and quit.
I have 2 friends who sell from time to time, and could make a good living if they were consistent with their selling, but they are both high strung, and often take personal, comments by the buyer, and after a few of those, they get ticked off and stop selling for a while. Finally they get over their irritation, and start again, till someone else hacks them off, and they stop again.
So all in all, I think to sell on any major basis it takes a person who LIKES computers, LIKES to sell, likes to work alone and can let snide comments run like water off a duck's back.
I briefly tried selling for others, and found it too time consuming, too involved (my idea of price, condition, etc, often conflicted with the owner) and all in all it was to me, not profitable enough to put up with the stress it created. Guess it is the same reason we never take consignments at our shop.
posted on January 1, 2001 09:08:10 AM new
dman - you are so right. I still run into people who don't even have a computer let alone know what eBay is. It seems strange to us because it's such a big part of our lives.
People at flea markets will ask about a certain movie. Usually, one that is out of print that I can get $35.00 for on eBay. They look at me like I'm from another planet and ask, what's eBay?
I'm asked all the time if I would put things up for people. I always say no. I have a hard enough time getting motivated to do my own stuff.
posted on January 1, 2001 09:50:50 AM new
gravid: I have a huge, untapped market that is also a spin-off from the online auction scene.
I offer computer lessons to persons wishing to enter the fray. It's a far more lucrative, interesting and rewarding business than selling on eBay could ever be.
Edited for spelling!
[ edited by Wedgewood on Jan 1, 2001 09:52 AM ]
posted on January 1, 2001 10:37:15 AM new
Hi Wedgewood,
If you don't mind me asking, how much does one charge per hour to teach others how to list on the internet? I have 2 years of listing online and that sounds like something that I should be doing. I am taking a computer office class for a future job but I would much rather work at home.
I hope you don't mind my nosy question.
Toy
and NOT toyhunter on ebay btw
And to answer the original question on this thread, I don't like to sell on consignment for other people. People who don't sell on the internet, do not understand the amount of time it takes to do listings and then all the other work it involves to finish the deal.
[ edited by toyhunter on Jan 1, 2001 10:42 AM ]
posted on January 1, 2001 11:50:23 AM new
gravid..etal
Being the "middleman" in an online car deal has a LOT of high risk. Since used cars dealers have such a reputation for being one of the sleaziest creatures on earth, do you really want to hang your reputation on their hook?
That said, I confess that I have bought and sold antique/collectable cars for 30 years and there is a huge on-line market for such items. {Its always a stuggle to prove and maintain integrity in a field of such sleaze. Bathe a lot!}
Two of many lessons learned are:
1) In case of misrepresentation or fraud, its you who gets stuck holding the bag. You are the person offering the item for sale and most often liable for any negative consequence. Your "source" often will "innocently" conceal important defects from you, and when the doodie hits the fan it will splatter your way. The more money that changes hands the more potential for "criminal charges" when a deal goes super sour. Most States have prosecuted far more bad car deals than fraud "beanie-widgets".
2)Most sources will ask too much for their items and you will work very hard to get the price they want. So hard it sometimes isn't worth it. Some pro sources treat you like a low commission employee and really don't understand squat about your obligations to the ebay buyer.
Then if the deal does go thru , you end up relying on the source to do the deed in a timely fashion. So, in a way, you end up supervising a deal where you get a low rank of pay.
SO.....I will only get involved in "middleman" ebay deal when we split the profit 50-50. I NEVER become a partner with someone who doesn't have as much to loose as I do. I must trust my "partner" to the absolute MAX. I do all the ebay work(list, pic, ship, feedbk)and we split profit evenly.
IF... the person wants me to teach them ebay I charge a min. of $15 per hour (depends on your geography) and tell them it takes from 4 hours plus (depends on their motivation). Most people when they here this tell me they really want it cheaper or "they will it learn themselves" . So be it, wouldnt want to waste our time.
Middleman deals can be real profitable but you are selling more than just the item , your selling your "expertise" in online sales and your good name. If your not really, really good then you can get screwed with major headaches from both the Buyer and the Seller!!
posted on January 1, 2001 12:06:20 PM new
This topic interests me for several reasons.
I've tried on several occasions to do consignment selling with unsatisfactory results. I was offered an opportunity again yesterday and turned it down.
Usually an older person with a very large inventory of unique high end items. They have stores and market thru shows but have little computer skills.
Tapping into their inventory seemed like such a natural teaming I was surprised when it did not work.
The stockpile of inventory would save me the time of hunting/gathering not to mention the investment in stock. They had done the sorting and their years of experience contributed an expertise that I could never hope to gain.
The flaws in this plan started to shows themselves when I realized how much time I was spending in their educating me about the items so I could write descriptions, list in correct categories and answer basic email questions. This might be overcome if they wrote the core description but there were other concerns.
The auction pricing model and my own flexibility in accepting an opening bid on one item and a bidding war on the next to produce, on average, a sufficient profit was unacceptable to them. They were much more ridged in expecting a minimun price for any specific item or its retention in inventory.
Since they had alternative outlets for selling they were also reluctant to pay sufficient percentages of realized selling prices to cover my out of pocket expenses ( eBay, PayPal, general overhead) plus my desired compensation.
Given the alternative options I have to acquire inventory, I decided it was just too time consuming and low profit an approach for me. I passed one of the stores last night and thought again "There must be some way to make that work"
I think they must list themselves or hire someone with computer skills to process listings after they become praticed in the entire process.
That leads to the next issue which is "What course outline and reading materials is working for teaching?"
I'm trying to help some people, in a volunteer capacity, to learn the process. Not to seem conceited, for I learn each day how much more their is I don't know, we really do know alot.
Make a list of all the components of knowledge and skills that enter into the entire cycle from acquiring/creating of product thru year-end accounting and it's impressive.
Just knowing to come here and the other available options for help, information or research would be a job description in most major corporations. Packing and shipping or faciliting international payments is a career for some people. We do that in our spare time.
Many of us are not really good at anything (or very little) but we are capable at a lot of things and are willing and able to put it all together into a small business.
How do you teach "Muddle Through"?
It's the first day of the rest of our lives in a new Millennium. I'm glad to be here and hope your dreams and mine come true.
posted on January 1, 2001 12:48:46 PM new
reston ray
Excellent post!
I think you have hit upon the real essence of "huge untapped inventory" when it comes to the quandry of selling someone elses goods.
My wife started out as an auctioneer and eventually got an MBA. We've been dealing with ebay since 1996. Started out using ebay for a quick appraisal with completed items and advanced to buying bargains and selling as a hobby.
We conclude that it seems like the wise thing to do when one spots a "goldmine" of untapped inventory is to just see how much of it YOU can buy at the lowest wholesale price! Then auction it yourself.
Sounds easy but the research involved in studying the "items" value and nature is a true art. But one that good ebay auctoneers are usually used to.
After the learning curve on just what the "widget" is comes the big question...what it worth to you?.
Short and sweet... I look for what I THINK is a wholesale "untapped" items and try to buy them "Choice" for what I THINK is about 33% of the final sale value. The goal is 33% but we sometimes take chances that usaully average 50%-60% NO MORE. Too much risk.
An old antique dealer once told me his maxim..."always buy an item that was quality when it was made and it will be quality when you sell it, and by the way, never pay too much"
If one does the homework the untapped inventory is the true "goldmine" .
So.. If its such a good deal that others will flock to buy it...why not just buy it yourself and invest in your own judgement.
Cut out any middleman efforts.
Fly in the ointment is always that the
"goldmine" owner wants too much. Then it ends up sticking in the back of our minds as a ghost of the lost "untapped inventory".
So we offer to train them to sell on ebay and..........well you see the dog chasing its own tail......
PS.. I start to teach a person about selling on ebay by teaching them to buy something cheap. Its the best lesson you can start with and one they always take very seriously. Then I advance to the "mechanics" of ebay itself.
posted on January 1, 2001 02:34:51 PM new
Toyhunter: The going rate for computer lessons in our area is about $35 an hour. I charge $25 and specialize in teaching online auction selling. If someone is completely computer illiterate then I recommend some of the other trainers in my area to get them started.
My customers have to know how to use a browser, how to send and receive email and how to create and delete files. If I figure that someone is a quick study I will go through this info with them, but most people need at least a basic intro to windows before I take them on. I find that most people can be up and running in 3 or 4 lessons, including one on using a digital camera or scanner and editing the images. I also include tips on record keeping and shipping procedures, as that is a big part of the game.
It's fun! People are eager to learn, pleased to be able to master the basic skills, and absolutely astounded when the first bids come in. I have no shortage of customers, and I would say that 99.9% have gone on to become great sellers. (So far I've only had one miserable failure and that was a lady who just could not get it through her head that packages had to be well packed and shipped promptly.) At least the negs were on her user ID and not mine. She quit after only three disasters, which was a major blessing as far as I was concerned. No doubt her customers felt this way, too
To address the topic of this thread - I also tried selling for others. It was one major headache! Never again!
Edited to Add: Lessons are about 1 hour each. If someone just needs a roadmap, then they can be up and running in very short order, though on the average most are willing to pay for 4 lessons, for which I provide free telephone follow-up for questions, etc. for the first run of listings they post.
posted on January 1, 2001 05:00:55 PM new
I have sold items for other people but charge 50% of the ending bid. Since it is their item I pay the eBay commission out of my profit. So far I have found it takes me away from my own auctions, from which I receive 100% of the ending bid. Since I have a huge backlog of items to sell I do not actively pursue anything but will occassionally help out a friend with an item.
posted on January 1, 2001 05:36:37 PM new
Sorry I was away for a bit.
unknown - I can see where
if I could aquire cars myself it would be a much better deal to sell them. Right now I am not in a position financially to be able to carry the inventory, and I do not think I have enough experience as a buyer to do that for myself right now., But I can see the advantage. I also would have a LOT more than 2 or 3 hours invested in each car.
littlenell - as someone pointed out used car dealers are the lowest form of retail life on the planet. The people I am dealing with so far are a off-line auctioneer who mostly does autos himself, a man who has an automotive repair shop and often buys or gets stuck with customers cars, and a guy who restores older cars and hot rods for resale or for customers. Having worked for two autodealers in the past I doubt I could ever do this sort of deal with an actual auto dealership new or used. These three I have all seen act with integrity which I have never seen a trace of at a dealership.
All of their points about getting stuck and having your reputation eroded are very valid and I would take time and funds to speak with an attorney before writing a contract for yourself that takes into account the laws of your state. You need to be very methodical like dman3. That is assuming it is even possible to do in your state. I have been setting a fee of $100 to cover my fees and a little of my time if I am unable to sell a vehicle. So far that has only happened once so I am not too concerned about that. It is my expectation to sell. However I have turned down several chances to sell because I felt the price was too high.
I get all sorts of requests to sell small items and am just not interested in anything less than $2,000.00. I don't have enough to keep me busy on my own but I want it that way. I am making enough to pay the bills and
am getting too old to want the 10 and 12 hour days I used to work when I was young.
littlenell --Like CB radios ???? He must not have any real idea of what we DO on them.
If I do eventually buy cars myself to resell I will have to get a dealer's license and I think I will be looking for rust free older cars to bring up North into SALT country.
posted on January 1, 2001 06:16:32 PM new
Marlenedz: I ONLY train on the customer's own computer, either in their home or place of business, and on a one-to-one basis.
I used to teach software classes such but now that I am retired I just do private P2P lessons.
I will also go into a shop and help the owner or designated deity get set up. To me, this is just about the best "job" I've ever had. I really enjoy it and so do my customers. Their first sales usually more than pay for the lessons, as they often have some really good items to sell and are surprised at what they can get for them in the global market place.
Now I suppose if someone needed to go after the big bucks in computer training, this would be pretty Mickey Mouse stuff. However, this thread started by questioning the validity of the "huge untapped market" selling for others on eBay. My reply is that for me, the untapped market is in teaching others how to do this themselves, rather than going through all the headaches and hassles of selling other people's stuff on a commission basis.
posted on January 2, 2001 01:41:04 AM new
I think there are a great deal of people who are totally intimidated by the very thought of putting anything for sale on the Internet at all. I am a South African studying in Dallas TX and I am selling my father's stamp collection for him online. So far I only listed 5 small sets of items and three have now closed. All have been sold thus far. I basically did it for my parents to help them out and to convince them that this was a viable way of selling.
I would not even attempt to teach them how to list items on eBay themselves. They are in their 60's and are in awe of the fact that they can answer messages on icq and surf the net. I feel strongly (and so do they) that the way an item is presented in the listing is most important ... thus I use HTML in order to make a good impression and to make a clear presentation. That would simply be too complicated to teach my folks. It is a pleasure for me to help them in this way. They had no idea how much work was involved in scanning and making the pics clear enough and yet small enough, as well as the HTML and design. They do know now that it was indeed time-consuming as they came online a few times over a day and a half and found me online working on their listings. I sure felt appreciated afterwards!!!! **Grin**
