posted on February 1, 2001 05:08:26 AM new
Last night 8 minutes before the auction ended, one of my bidders retracted a $400 bid placed on an item. His bid retraction indicated that he believed my description was confusing regarding the quantity of items he was bidding on (something that was painfully clear).
I have a personal belief and a strong one at that, in that I believe retractions are inherently unfair to everyone, but most especially to the underbidder. I believe that most underbidders want to pay X amount of dollars for an item and when they are outbid, they pass and go on to other things. I don't blame them, as I would do the same.
So after the retraction, I emailed the underbidder and indicated what had happened and that if he/she had obligated themselves elsewhere, I would understand and NOT hold them to their bid. This morning they replied that they had bid on other items and would not be purchasing this item.
My question is based purely on the fact that I hate BID RETRACTORS and I want to request final value fees and special fees from eBay for their ALLOWING this to happen in the last 8 minutes of an auction. I do not want to have the underbidder get an NPB alert, as they really do not deserve it.
So how do I get eBay's attention on this - should I email [email protected]? I know you all will have some great ideas and I am looking to you for some guidance.
Also, while I realize this is not a smart thing to do, I am tempted to write the user who canceled the bid and let them know what havoc they have wreaked because they COULD NOT READ. If anyone else agrees with me in this regard, how would you word that email?
Thanks in advance - I know I will get wonderful feedback on this issue from all of you.
posted on February 1, 2001 05:18:44 AM new
If you select the correct reason for filing the NPB alert, the winning bidder will NOT get a black mark on his record. "Strikes" are only imposed when the bidder doesn't pay or doesn't make contact. In your situation, you can choose "Transaction cancelled by mutual agreement...." and all the winning bidder will get is a nice letter informing him that you notified Ebay that he chose not to purchase the item and wishing him well in his future Ebay dealings.
posted on February 1, 2001 05:39:08 AM new
I couldn't wait because I was so furious at the bid retractor. Here is the copy of the email I sent - What do you all think?
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Dear Bidder,
Last night you placed a bid of $400 on the above referenced auction and then 8 minutes before the auction ended, you retracted your bid, with the excuse that you did not know if it was for xxx chairs or a xx spindle chair.
If you had read my description and were unsure, a simple email to me BEFORE you placed your bid would have prevented the mess I am dealing with now. I had almost 7 hours to return your email.
The underbidder that you OUTBID, went on and bid on other items, as she bid only what she wanted to for the item and did not want to increase her bid when you outbid her. She figured it was safe for her to go on to other things. Because of your retraction, she learned 8 minutes before the auction ended & only because I emailed her, that she was on the hook for $350 because you CHANGED your mind. So, now she is on the hook for my auction and other auctions she has bid on, while only having $350 to spend in her budget.
Since I believe bid retractions are VERY UNFAIR and should not be allowed, I allowed her to back out of the auction, since she believed by your outbid that she was no longer obligated to me.
In the meantime, I have had an auction running for 7 days, paid $30 in listing fees plus I have to pay commission on the $350, because eBay believes I have a completed auction. So now I have to file for a refund from eBay, which requires eBay to automatically send out a Non Paying Bidder Alert to the underbidder, who after getting 3 of those Alerts will be kicked off of eBay - needless to say she will not be a happy camper either.
My purpose for writing this letter is to let you know, that you should first thoroughly read a description and if you still are not sure, then you should email the seller for clarity. All of this should be done prior to placing ANY bid. If the seller does not return your email, don't bid - go on to something else. I also want you to be aware of what happens when you place bid retractions on any future auctions.
Thank you,
TICKED OFF SELLER (only kidding, I didn't write that)
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I placed xx in the spaces that I thought would identify the auction to comply with the policy on this board.
posted on February 1, 2001 05:45:16 AM new
I can understand how frustrated you are, but sometimes today's bid retractors become tomorrow's customers. Recently, I was very tempted to do what you did, but I didn't, and as a result, I was able to obtain a great repeat customer because of it.
posted on February 1, 2001 05:56:30 AM new
The retractor is stating that they were confused by the description and they placed a bid anyway only to retract it later. Does that depend on what the meaning of is is?
I had a similar case where a person repeatedly bid on something over a period of days and then claimed it wasn't the specific item they were looking for. Yeah right!
Every auction states, to some degree or other, that you commit to the auction before you bid. In so doing, every deadbeat and retractor shows themselves to be commiting fraud.
posted on February 1, 2001 05:58:22 AM new
I agree with you that bid retractions stink, but the underbidder shouldn't have made the assumption that it was all over until it was all over. Anything can happen in the final minutes of an auction and in this case, unfortunately, the underbidder become the high bidder and IMO, shouldn't have been let off the hook.
Since I'm not generally watching my auctions during the final minutes, I would have no knowledge of what had happened until all was said and done, but I still would have sent an EOA notice to whoever was the high bidder regardless of how they had won. Then if they had responded that "Sorry, the deal's off because..." they would be at fault for renegging on their bid. You don't say how much notice this person got that they had been outbid. Was it several days, or only a matter of hours?
I was once outbid on an auction several days in advance of closing, then in the last 24 hrs. the high bidder retracted, of course, leaving me stuck with my maximum bid. I was outbid again anyway during the last 2 hrs., but had that not happened, would I as the "new high bidder" have been justified in cancelling the transaction? NO!
That said, report the bid retractor to Safeharbor detailing the exact reason you feel it was an "illegitimate" reason for retracting and this person will get a warning.
posted on February 1, 2001 06:14:42 AM new
ksterni,
You are probably right, I may have turned away a future customer. However, I have such strong feelings about bid retractions and how unfair they are to everyone involved, for several reasons, which is why I reacted as I did.
In the past three years of selling on eBay, this would be my fourth retraction and all because the bidder did not read the description. While I know this message board discusses that issue alot, bid retractions really wreak havoc.
There are plenty of days in an auction to ask questions and in this particular case, the bid was placed 6 hours before the auction ended, certainly enough time for me to answer their question.
I believe that some people do not truly understand the problems they cause and should be enlightened (maybe not so strongly). I really wish eBay would revise their policy on bid retractions, which is why I am making a point to get ALL my fees back. If they are going to keep the feature, they should at least restrict it, so retractions cannot be made at the last minute or even the last day of an auction, unless you have typed 2,000,000 and meant to type 2.00 and even then I am not so sure about that.
In any event, my head is still exploding over this issue and I am probably not in the best frame of mind to go off advising bid retractors about the problems they cause. However, I am pretty sure I am still going to feel this way tomorrow and would have still written something to the retractor.
But this is why I like this board - it gives me a sounding board and it gives great advice when you need it the most. Thanks for your comments so far.
posted on February 1, 2001 06:14:57 AM new
ANYONE WHO RETRACTS A BID ON ANY OF MY AUCTIONS GETS AN EMAIL FROM ME BANNING THEM FROM ALL OF MY CURRENT AND FUTURE AUCTIONS !!!!
I CARBON COPY THOSE EMAILS TO SAFEHARBOR AND I REPORT THE BID RETRACTION EVERY TIME !!!!
I HAVE GOTTEN MANY OF THESE BID RETRACTORS SUSPENDED AND I WILL KEEP DOING IT.
THESE IDIOTS ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH !!!!
YOU SHOULD NOT BID ON AN AUCTION IF YOU ARE UNCLEAR OF THE DESCRIPTION ! PLAIN AND SIMPLE !
EBAY NEEDS TO GET ON THE BALL DEALING WITH THESE MORONS !!!!!
posted on February 1, 2001 06:17:17 AM newIf you had read my description and were unsure, a simple email to me BEFORE you placed your bid would have prevented the mess I am dealing with now. I had almost 7 hours to return your email.
Ok, wait a minute, this might be the answer to my question.
If the high bidder/bid retractor placed their bid only 7 hours before the auction close, it sure seems like the underbidder didn't waste any time bidding on other auctions, feeling they were off the hook already.
Again, while I'm not excusing the bid retractor and strongly feel they should be reported, the underbidder sure was impatient to start shopping again. Not that they don't have that right, but as anything can and does happen in those final minutes, why allow them to not take responsibility for their bid?
Look at it another way:
Suppose a high bidder assumes they will win the auction and doesn't bid on similar/identical items in anticipation of winning. And all similar items are closing around the same time. Then, they get outbid during the final minutes. "Rats," they say! "I was supposed to win, I was the high bidder, this isn't fair and had I known I would have gone shopping and as it is now all those other auctions for the same thing are now closed too!" Well, hey, that's life. If what you want isn't up today, it'll be up tomorrow, or next week, or next month.
So I guess the moral of that story is, don't be in such a hurry to bid again when you're outbid, especially on expensive items. You might win unexpectedly at the last minute!
posted on February 1, 2001 06:22:52 AM new
Wow you guys reply fast, before I was even done with my last post.
The underbidder was outbid 6 hours before the end of the auction. Retraction was made 8 minutes before the end of the auction.
My description was very clear that they were bidding on 1 chair and not 7. Never did I use the word chairs, did I show a photo of more than 1 chair or use any plural that would indicate there was more than one. The bidder was confused (he says) as I used a number to describe the spindles on the back of the chair.
CIX - your words are exactly how I feel. I also will be emailing Safeharbor and sending them a copy of the email I sent to the retractor.
Theoretically and according to eBay's rules, the underbidder is SOL. However, I have never forced an underbidder to complete an auction because they were victim to a Retractor. I just don't believe it is fair - it would never happen in a Real Life auction, so why should it happen at eBay.
posted on February 1, 2001 06:25:28 AM new
eBay should change the bid retraction policy. Set a time limit of 30 minutes to retract, otherwise, it permanent.
But, of course, that would show that eBay actually cared about the seller and we all know the answer to that one....
I agree with the impatient nature of the underbidder and the spending habits. I did go and look at her bidding history and saw she did purchase other items-however, I did not check when she placed those bids. So theoretically, I should have waited for her reply to my end of auction. However, I also sent her an email advising that I was going to file for NPB and that she might be getting a letter from eBay. So, the possibility may exist that she will cough up her bid anyway to avoid the NPB. Most likely not, but she may think about her position.
In either event, it really is a moot issue now, because I did let her out of the obligation.
Another posted indicated that they do not watch the last few minutes of auctions and most likely would not have noticed a bid retractor and would have just sent the high bidder their EOA notice - That sent a message to me also - I should have first sent the EOA notice first without mentioning the bid retraction - so I will agree, I am to blame in that respect. I will make sure if it happens again, that I don't react quite so quickly.
By the same token, there was so much activity on this item and several others, that curiosity kept me watching at the end - it is what I love about eBay, the last minute action.
posted on February 1, 2001 06:43:39 AM new
xenainfla - First, let me say I like the letter you wrote to the bid retractor, but I also think the next bidder was obligated to buy. I hope you will be successful in getting all your fees refunded!
But I have a hypothetical question: Suppose you placed a rather high proxy bid on an item, (after checking the seller's feedback and finding it okay, but not great) then someone with very low feedback starts chipping away at your proxy, running the bidding up a few dollars at a time. You check this person's bidding history, and find that he bids almost exclusively on "your" seller's auctions. (And has no feedback from the seller). Would you even consider retracting your bid?
posted on February 1, 2001 09:48:37 AM new
Kudzuroze -
In regard to your hypothetical question, that would definitely irritate me. However, if I had placed my proxy amount, that is what I wanted to pay for an item. If I found out in your hypothetical situation that there was shill bidding going on, I would first post here and then I would next report it to eBay.
In case you were wondering, after doing much more research on this, I found that:
1. The RETRACTOR placed a high proxy of $400 at 11:00.
2. A couple of hours later the UNDERBIDDER made a bid, which told her she had been outbid, because of the proxy bid. So she moved on.
3. With nothing in between those two bids on the last day of the auction, the RETRACTOR comes back 6 hours later, 8 minutes before the end of the auction and retracts his PROXY bid, leaving bidder #2 holding the bag - it wasn't like she was ever the high bidder, she was outbid from the start.
posted on February 1, 2001 10:14:19 AM new
I would rather someone retract their bid than bid and not pay. I email from people telling me it was a mistake. Yeah right! I get my fees and relist.
