posted on February 2, 2001 02:24:18 PM new
The fees a seller incurs to accept PayPal from their customers belong to the seller's ~ not the customer. I don't know what the legality of this is because I've heard dozens of opinions.
Silly, silly people. If they're not willing to absorb the fees as business expense then they shouldn't be accepting PayPal. Or, they should be factoring an amount in their opening bid to compensate for being fee'd to death.
I don't like the fees I get charged by PayPal either (or by eBay or by my merchant account or by...) but it's the cost of doing business in those circumstances. If you don't want to pay the fees, get out of the business.
Whenever I see or hear of a seller doing this, I feel like they're saying, it's your fault, my dear customer, that I am getting charged these fees. Therefore, if you want my (precious) item, you're going to have to pay for it. Then, I want to say, if you want my business, then act like it - goodbye.
posted on February 2, 2001 02:47:15 PM new
Can someone post the link for me where I can find the information that this is illegal. I'm afraid this person might hassle me (there is no reason other than just how I am) so I want to have the information ready to send.
posted on February 2, 2001 06:36:22 PM new
Yes, the seller has violated eBay's rules. But no laws were broken. There is no law governing these online payment services.
A seller who accepts PayPal does not have a merchant account and is not charging a "credit card surcharge."
PayPal is accepting credit card payment. A seller who accepts PayPal is accepting the money you deposited into your PayPal account, no matter which method you used to deposit it.
posted on February 2, 2001 08:35:51 PM newSilly, silly people. If they're not willing to absorb the fees as business expense then they shouldn't be accepting PayPal. Or, they should be factoring an amount in their opening bid to compensate for being fee'd to death.
Businesses don't absorb expenses, such as fees, they pass them on to the customers. Retail stores know that a certain percent of customers will pay by credit cards and cost the store an additional 2% or so. So, they add a little to the retail price to cover the credit card fees. And everybody pays credit card fees even if they pay by cash.
Unfortunately, auction sellers can't include the fees because they don't know what the final price is. For example, if I start an item out at $10 and I get bids of $15 and $20, the final price will be $15.50. If I add $1 in fees to my starting price, it will be $11, but the final price will still be $15.50.
posted on February 2, 2001 08:41:47 PM new
But I pay my own fee's to PayPal. Someone accidentally sent me a payment that was $2.00 short of what it should be. She sent the other part of the payment and I had to pay for that one too, instead of all one transaction.
I dont mind paying my own but I dont want to pay other people's fee's too.
posted on February 2, 2001 09:15:39 PM new
Well, whether it is against the rules or not, it does turn me off as a buyer. A few minutes ago I was about to bid on something until I read all the TOS and saw they were going to tack a fee on to cover PayPal's costs. He or she also had some choice words about check writers which made me feel like the scum of the earth to even think about writing a check. Seller has 223 all positive FB.
In my opinion, PayPal and other online payment services are as much a convenience for the Seller as the buyer. The money is in their account in seconds, rather than days or weeks. If they aren't going to handle such matters as payment in the conventional ways, then how can I trust them to handle the other aspects of the sale professionally? Will my books arrive loose in a manila envelope or carefully wrapped and packed? Can't really tell from the FB comments....what the heck does "Great Ebayer" mean anyway?
Whether I'm right or wrong, whether you agree with me or not, is irrelevant. The point is: I'll buy those items elsewhere.
posted on February 2, 2001 10:20:05 PM new
As a seller... When PayPal first started charging me the fees, I passed them along to the buyer. It was always stated up front on my auction page. I really didn't *need* to accept PayPal, but knew that using a Credit Card was more convenient for some people, so I left it open as an option.
I tacked on the 1.9% fee to every PayPal auction for approximately a month. Never had a single complaint. I realized that some people perhaps passed over my auction to bid on someone's who did NOT charge for PayPal, and that was really okay with me.
I then received an email from Ebay stating that it was, indeed, ILLEGAL to charge credit card fees BACK to the buyer, and that I should remove such wording from all my auctions, or those auctions would be prematurely ended by Ebay. They did say that in their "home-base state" it is illegal, thus making any auction on Their site subject to those laws.
That sure got my attention! LOL
I was told that I could offer "discounts" to those who pay with Money Order. ie, say shipping is $5. BUT if you pay with a MONEY ORDER, shipping is only $4. But, you can't charge MORE to a person using PayPal.
And, to be REALLY honest, it ticks me off to see sellers still charging that fee. I really want to report them to ebay, because I find it irritating that THEY Are getting their money back, while I am not. Plus, I know someone reported ME, otherwise Ebay wouldn't have "caught" me so early. I haven't reported anyone yet, but I will not pay anyone's PayPal fees they try to charge Me. I simply notify them that this is illegal, and let them decide what to do with that information after the fact.
This is my first post to this forum, so I hope I've done it right!
posted on February 3, 2001 12:29:34 AM new
man I'm glad I quit taking PayPal, stopped taking PayPal in December, and have seen no change in the number of sold auctions.
If it turns off a buyer or two so be it, there are millions of buyers buying millions of things that are being sold by a few hundred thousand people. It's not like you live in a small town and this widget only appeals to one person, and if you don't take payment in the form they want to use it will be covered in dust for an eternity tucked away in a dark corner.
the only way to handle passing on the fees is to add it to your shipping/handing charges as someone else said. The credit card companies are clear you can only offer a discounts you can't tack on the fee after the fact.
posted on February 3, 2001 12:53:35 AM new
What bkmunroe said.
It's not the fee you're really complaining about, it's when the price is broken down that makes you feel like you're paying more. Buyers simply don't like being told what their money is being used for.
Would you like to go to a department store to buy a shirt, and on the price tag it says, $2.00 for fabric, $2.50 for labor, $10 for transportation, $3.00 because of other shoplifters, $5 to cover ads/promotions, $2 to cover those who use credit cards, $6 for sales staff and $10 for profit. Or are you happy it just says $40.50?
He should have just added it to his handling fee and be done with it, but since he was open that he was charging something to cover paypal, should you really punish his honesty.? It would have have been a little upsetting to me too at first but in perspective it's no big deal.
posted on February 3, 2001 12:58:26 AM new
If I'm in a good mood, I have no problem with the seller stating in their TOS that there is a 30 charge for paypal, after all, it is cheaper than a first class stamp.
If their TOS says they add $1.00 for paypal, I'll pass and find something else to bid on. And if they say they accept paypal and then try to tack on an extra fee after the auction is over, forget it!
posted on February 3, 2001 01:30:35 AM new
This is what eBay's SafeHarbor said about it in a message to a bidder on December 14 (this was posted on Town Square at eBay):
Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Sellers are not permitted to add additional fees on their items to make up for the fees being charged by billpoint or paypal. This is considered a violation of our Safe Harbor Charter.
If you have been charged extra fees such as the ones mentioned please send the User ID of the seller and the item number. If the request was sent in the form of an email please send this information, including the full header.
If you have any other questions or concerns please let us know and we will be happy to assist you.
posted on February 3, 2001 07:19:04 AM new
WOW!! I just started charging for paypal last week. So far I've only had one complaint, but I guess if it is against eBay's regulations I will stop. I'm just sick and tired of everyone sticking their hand in my pocket. First it's listing fees, then final value fees, then paypal fees, then shipping fees. What's next - bidding fees?
posted on February 3, 2001 07:30:53 AM new
quickdraw29 wrote
It's not the fee you're really complaining about
*****************************************
Yes. It is. There was no mention of a PayPal fee in the auction's TOS or I would not have bid. If shipping was jacked up because of it and I wasn't told..that's different...if the shipping was initially stated as $5.00 or whatever. I've paid up to $6.00 in shipping for a DVD that cost $2.00 to send and it was in the TOS that the shipping was that much and I paid it, no questions asked. But to get an email, with additional charges in it, that were not outlined in the auction's TOS is wrong. I would not do that as a seller and I won't pay it as a buyer.
As I said before, I dont' mind paying my own fee's but I am not going to pay someone else's.
posted on February 3, 2001 07:47:34 AM newAs I said before, I dont' mind paying my own fee's but I am not going to pay someone else's.
But you do pay someone else's fees, every time you make a purchase, whether it's at an online auction or a department store. Fees jack up the price of every item on every store shelf and in every ad everywhere.
Customers pay for that smiling little old man who greets you at Walmart. Customers pay for the electricity to light a Target store. Customers pay for worker's compensation. Buyers pay the seller's eBay fees, PayPal fees, ISP fees, etc.
You even indirectly pay my salary at my RL job through the products you buy after watching a tv commercial.
Fees and prices are like sausage... people really would rather not know what goes into them.
posted on February 3, 2001 09:42:27 AM new
libbyparsons, you didn't get my post. Show me one price tag that shows "shoplifting recovery fee" on it, yet we pay it everyday for most all the things we buy. New cars seem to be the exception, but they don't list .35¢ for toilet paper for the guest restroom, and .95¢ for the cleaning lady.
I'm not blaming you for feeling this way. I'd be mad too if I went to the counter and they said, "that will be $3 extra to pay for the "shoplifting recovery fee." It's a matter of putting into perspective that you pay it no matter if they mention it or not, and no one is required to breakdown the price to you.
Plus, I know someone reported ME, otherwise Ebay wouldn't have "caught" me so early. I haven't reported anyone yet, but I will not pay anyone's PayPal fees they try to charge Me. I simply notify them that this is illegal, and let them decide what to do with that information after the fact.