posted on August 27, 2002 07:19:51 AM new
a seller that he is currently bidding on? This customer seems like a nice guy, as he paid on time and all, i dont knoww him that well, but I noticed he is bidding on this seller who constantly shills his own auction.
Now before all of you defend this seller, here are the facts, this seller has 4 seperate selling accounts. All 4 sell different kind of items(many of us do that). and there is this mysterious bidder who ONLY, I repeat, ONLY bids on this sellers 4 selling accounts. The bidder only has a 2 feedback, all from years and years ago. The seller's 4 accounts NEVER give this bidder ANY feedback, and all the auction this bidder wins on any of this sellers 4 accounts, gets relisted within weeks! Sure I can say this bidder deadbeated on each of this sellers account, but then why does he still let this guy jack up the prices?
Anyway, this customer is currently bidding on a item in one of his auctions. Should I warn him? Or better let it be, for I can get into trouble? I mean isn't this like trying to prevent someone from getting ripped off?
Yes, I reported this seller many many times to ebays, to no avail. I also reported a different seller who too has these mysterious "fans" who bids exclusively on their stuff, and ebays dont do anything. Perhaps ebays dont mind shilling for they can collect more on FVF? Any advice would help. Thanks!
posted on August 27, 2002 07:38:09 AM new
As I understand it, any such contact with another seller's bidder would be considered "auction interference" and could result in you being suspended.
The fact that you're correct and only mean well is not taken into account.
The bidder would have to report you to the seller and/or eBay but that is always a possibility.
Contacting eBay is the only allowed procedure. They sometimes respond with action against shilling sellers but if they don't you can only stand aside and watch.
posted on August 27, 2002 08:40:10 AM new
Hi Reston, I guess you are right, all I could do is sit and watch. But I feel like if I can go back in time, I could have prevented JFK assasination, or 9/11 incident had I known it was going to happen, and here, I KNOW what WILL happen, yet i feel so helpless....):
posted on August 27, 2002 10:39:20 AM new
I advise minding your own business.
I have a couple of customers who have never bid on any auctions other than mine. I have multiple selling accounts, which these people are AWARE OF, since I tout my other eBay ids in my end of auction email.
They've dealt with me, they know they can trust me. I don't recall if I've ever left them feedback, but since I only use Vrane
's return-positive-feedback tool, if they've never left me any I've never left them any, either.
You should be careful about making wild accusations.
posted on August 27, 2002 10:43:37 AM new
hi fluffy, but this seller keeps relisting the items that was won ONLY by this misterious bidder. And most are one of a kind antique collectables. He never re-list the ones won by other bidders, but the ones won by this mysterious bidder gets relisted, sometimes within 24 hours! Isn't that fishy?
posted on August 27, 2002 11:16:11 AM new
You can warn the bidder through a free email account and say that you noticed that the seller uses a shill and all the other info. There should be no mention of your ebay ID whatsoever.
posted on August 27, 2002 11:18:28 AM new
It's a bad idea to take it on yourself to be the authority on the issue. Report your findings to eBay, if you go further than that you could find yourself in trouble.
posted on August 27, 2002 11:43:46 AM new
Hi intercraft,
I bought something from 2 of his accounts, and then I was outbidded on one of them by that mysterious bidder. Then a regular customer told me "did you know this seller sells under so and so?" and I noticed the seller had a car he was auctioning, put it in my watch list for it looked like a nice car, but the bid went too high for my blood, auction description mentioned "car has small scratch on dashboard, mirage 35,457, leather seating small rip on passanger side" and the mysterious bidder won it, and oddily, he re-listed the auction, I went "huh" then the mysterious bidder won it again! Then week later, he relisted, and AGAIN that mysterious bidder won. Then 4 days later, he relisted it, this time the mysterious bidder was outbidded by someone with 1000+ feedback, he didnt relist it. Now unless he happen to have 4 cars with the SAME meter number and same scracth area, and this mystery guy wanted to buy 3 of them, I see something fishy!
Then when I started to check bidding history of this bidder, he keeps bidding on this sellers item only, and keeps winning the same stuff over and over until another bidder wins, then that seller stops listing that item. Not stalking but i just thought that kind of activity is violation of ebays TOS, isnt it?
posted on August 27, 2002 12:17:46 PM new
*Do'nt* contact the bidder. That's auction interference, and you can be NARU's for it.
*DO* get all your "evidence" together and e-mail eBay about it. If you have reasonable evidence, they will at the very least suspend the seller. I've done it and they quickly resonded to my complaint.
posted on August 27, 2002 12:25:29 PM new
I grew up watching the Lone Ranger on TV. He wore a mask and was somehow booted out of the Texas Rangers but he was America's Number One Hero.
There is absolutely no risk in warning this poor bidder through a free email account. As Jiminey Cricket of Disney fame would always say .. Let your conscience be your guide.
posted on August 27, 2002 12:50:30 PM new
I would gather your facts and report them to safeharbor, I would advise no direct contact with the buyer or seller.
posted on August 27, 2002 01:05:01 PM new
i really doubt ebay would do anything to you other than give you a warning. i started receiving emails from my customers that someone was emailing them saying that i run a fraudulent business and what not and should not bid on my auctions. my customers sent the emails to ebay nothing came of it. the other member just got a warning. then i started getting emails being threatened that they would not stop warning my bidders until i gave them a refund ( they refused to mail my item back so i never sent a refund). i sent all those emails to ebay. they just turned a cheek and did nothing. so seems to me ebay doesnt stick by its tos.
i really dont think that if you informed this buyer they would get uppity and turn you in. let them know. if you are worried leave out your username and what not if you must. i know i would not be annoyed if i was warned and you had the proof you do.
posted on August 27, 2002 06:51:39 PM new
[i]hi fluffy, but this seller keeps relisting the items that was won ONLY by this misterious bidder. And most are one of a kind antique
collectables. [/i]
Sorry, I'm still dubious.
Perhaps he, like me, has multiple seller ids and you don't see the other relists because you're not looking in the right place. I have been known to move relists from id to id and change the title wording.
Sure, he could be shilling. I'm not sure many people care about it any more, though. Most realize that a shiller can't make you pay more for an item than you are willing to pay.
posted on August 27, 2002 09:17:10 PM new
That is a really tough question. Since eBay reads these boards, I am not comfortable suggesting you violate their rules. I don't know what email you're using to contact eBay, but I would try to go through the trust and safety board, find some rep who will listen or find a better email. Your emails may be bumping up against a support rep who could care less about shilling. Try another route.
As far as I know, there is no rule about contacting a seller's past bidders, so you might try rounding up a posse of bidders who were ripped off, and email eBay en masse, kind of an email campaign. Once the auction is over, the users can file a fraud complaint or something like that. If the seller gets a bunch of fraud complaints, eBay will probably take notice.
posted on August 27, 2002 11:14:24 PM new
Has this happened with other auctions other than cars? I have found that many auto auctions are bid upon by the same people just for the sake of bidding.
posted on August 28, 2002 12:22:57 AM new
OK fluffy, riddle me this, what is the ODDS of a seller having 4 cars, all with the same damage and the same milage and the odds of one bidder winning 3 of them?
posted on August 28, 2002 01:30:09 AM new
I truly believe that ebay is overwhelmed by the volume of emails they receive every day. It would take a staff of at least 150 people making at least $35,000 a year each to try to keep up with it all. That would not be cost effective to ebay. So their solution is to pick and choose which areas they consider priority areas. Recently, they have totally given up on the illegal linking violations for example.
posted on August 28, 2002 05:39:45 AM new
LOL Ironking. But you forgot to add the bidder was apparently NPB on all three! But better not get involved. Too bad. How about an unknown emailaddress sending a question for seller "Hi I am really interested in these cars. How many more of them do you have ?" The seller has probably been warned. Friend of mine was accused by an ebayer of shilling, with not 10% of the evidence here, and she got a canned shilling warning. She was not involved and was devastated, but nothing more ever came of it.
[ edited by rgrem on Aug 28, 2002 05:45 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2002 06:20:10 AM new
funny timing for this thread...
I have been *off* the AW board for about a week ~ very busy.
The reason is relative to this thread.
I am a PowerSeller, 99.5% positive with three selling id's.
eBay cancelled 38 of my auctions last week ~ pulled them out of the data base straight into the dead zone.
why?
Someone reported me for shill bidding.
NONE of my ID's have EVER bid on the other auctions!
I do, however, have an eBay cyber-stalker.
Not entirely sure who it is, one of my competitors, and I have thus far narrowed it down to three probable eBayers.
A bidding ID bids almost entirely on MY auctions, sometimes similar items from other sellers.
Six months ago, I reported the suspicious bidding to eBay, no action was taken.
I no longer send NPB warnings to this nut.
One seller cannot NARU a bidder and I have already filed on the wacko.
This is the second ID that has been created by *the stalker*
If I have this ID naru'ed, they will just create another one.
I would rather deal with a known nutjob, I let it ride and re-list the items they supposedly win.
I am trying to pinpoint their identity (with proof). Maybe then eBay will take action.
The wacko re-surfaces every 6-8 weeks, last time being about 2 weeks ago.
eBay is only a venue, I will protect my own business.
stupid me.
Someone (the owner of the id?) reported to eBay that I was shill bidding on my accounts. ALL THREE SELLING ID's were reported, although this wacko only bids on my primary ID.
How untrue!
A simple bid history would show that my three id's have never bid on each other!
Without proper info, eBay pulled my active auctions!
*sheesh*
Getting this mess straightened out has been a nightmare.
Six days and over 10 e-mails to SafeHarbor, Trust& Safety, & PowerSellers has gotten nowhere!
Fortunately, the *wacko* only ended the auctions that were currently running and was not able to NARU me.
I still don't know what the high bidder in each auction was told ~ it sucks.
Be advised...
what looks like shill bidding may not be so!
(sorry so long!)
posted on August 29, 2002 10:42:36 PM new
If its a very good customer/friend Id call them. If not Id Contact safeharbor with your thoughts.
Luck to you.
posted on August 30, 2002 05:27:35 AM new
ironking: If you care nothing for the harm you might do others, consider this: Just when you are most sure that you are utterly correct, that is the precise moment when one usually steps on his...er...tongue.
posted on August 30, 2002 02:28:25 PM new
Forget just notifying safeharbor or ebay. Collect your evidence and take it down to the local FBI office. They are listed in the phonebook.
Shill bidding is illegal and punishable by law. Since selling on the Internet crosses state lines, it becomes a federal case. Thus the FBI has jurisdiction to uphold the law. Get printouts of everything you can find. If you cannot find enough information to make a legal case, you shouldn't even think of notifying the bidder. If you did, and cannot prove your accusation you may be charged and prosecuted for libel.
Personally, if I felt strongly about it I would send an anonymous email. However, you need to use an anonymizer of some sort to be anonymous, and even then a court could order that anonymizer service to release its IP records to track you down. Your best bet for sending something and leaving no tracks is to use a public computer at a library, university or hospital (larger hospitals sometimes have internet computers in waiting areas). Go in, make a ficticous hotmail or yahoo email account, send your message and leave. Do nothing else on that system or email address.
This is most likely a few years ahead of law inforcment as most judges, cops and prosecuters don't even know what an IP is, but it is better to be safe than sorry.
