posted on May 30, 2003 03:00:59 PM new
I shipped a vintage item to a western European country just under 2 months ago via USPS insured air-package mail valued at just over $200. Today the buyer tells me the item has never arrived. I go to the post office to file a claim and the insanity begins. They want some sort of written proof of what the item is worth, but the printed out ebay page showing the item and what the buyer actually paid is NOT ACCEPTABLE to the post office! The item does show up on ebay occasionally, but aside from that one would be hard pressed to find one or to value the item, apparently this is of no concern to the post office! I then fill out the forms and basically am told it will take them around 60 days to investigate the claim and then they will probably require addition proof of value before they would even consider paying the claim! I would guess that a business that was not a monopoly would go out of business within a month if they operated this way. Why should it take 60 days to investigate a claim, do they have to send an offical over to Europe on a slow boat to investigate? If all these insane proofs of value are required why dont they post a BIG SIGN over the counter at the post office explaining all of this? To be fair I think this is only the second claim that I have ever filed in 4 years of selling, and the other item did eventually show up so usually the post office does get it right, but these insurance practices seem extremely burdensome and insane to me. Anyone have a suggestion about what to do?
posted on May 30, 2003 03:20:33 PM new
It is too late most likely to salvage this money from the P.O. This is just another reason to self-insure.
There are some people who will tell that to self-insure is illegal. This simply is not true. Just the fact that eBay includes an insurance option for the seller to collect makes it OK. I have discussed this with the California State Insurance Comission just this week. They said this is basically a gray area but as long as you cover any claims, there is no problem.
posted on May 30, 2003 03:22:37 PM new
the 60 days could come from sending the form to foreign post office and let them investigate.
usps does not accept ebay auction results as the value of the item,where have you been??
it requires an amount on paper showing company heading.
[ edited by stopwhining on May 30, 2003 03:24 PM ]
posted on May 30, 2003 03:33:24 PM new
Self insured, I am in the dark. Breifly as I can in a nut shell. You send a,,,,,$400.00 whatever package. Instead of paying for insurance at the Post Office Oh, hands in the air, $10.00 for insurance,,,,,?? You say it's SELF Insured. O.k., now it's smashed to pieces (or so they say) when the buyer gets it. you mean yer gonna send them back $400.00!!!!?
posted on May 30, 2003 03:56:48 PM new
It is just terrible for international shipments. It is designed so they do not have to pay. I had one back in December 1991, for $60. They made me wait 90 days to even file a claim. Of course, I had to refund the buyer, who gave me poor feedback anyway (which really made me mad!) Anyway, I file the claim, and wait and wait and wait. I sent them the original blue slip with my claim, then they finally get around to writing me back 13 months later they want me to submit the original paperwork to them. Hello, I already did that, but how can I prove that I did. I figured that I would just eat the $60 as it was not worth my time. I am unsure what I would do for a large international order, because an insurance claim from the USPS is worthless!
posted on May 30, 2003 04:01:00 PM new
The Post Office wants the payment details. What was the method of payment? Ask the insurance claims person at the Post Office specifically what they need. The last time I filed with the USPS (I swithed to PIC as a result) the payment was through paypal and all I needed was a copy of that transaction report.
dd
On a $400 item I wouls ship FEDEX or UPS to be on the safe side. I sell clothing that averages $20 and have never had a package smashed. Did have one never make it and the total loss was $50 but no big deal. I regularly send self-insured packages in excess of $100.
I guess it depends on what you sell as far as fragility.
posted on May 30, 2003 04:59:19 PM new
MARCN,,,,,oooooooooooo!!!!!!! I ain't askin' fer no Options. This is a hyohetical Question. You send self insure, With the POST OFFICE, period! How much ya gonna give the buyer when they have (the post office)smashed it to smitherings......I the seller had INSURED it with the POST OFFICE They, the POST OFFICE has to pay out,,,,,In this scenario the seller is SELF insured, How much is the SELLER going to give the buyer of worthless broken stuff,,,,,I have been at this e bay thing for over 3 YEARS.
If something is lost and DC confirms this, they get a full refund. You have been a seller for 3 years you say, how many packages have you had lost? I've been at it more than 5 years and only 2 have been lost and one was to the U.K.
posted on May 30, 2003 05:22:07 PM new
Oh! dispense with the games,,,,those people who do the SELF insured games to NOT pay for Insurance at the Post Office owe the person who got broken junk,,,,,,$400.00! period! they said it was,,,self insured, it arrived broken, Pay them $400.00 bucks! plain and simple. They "Hoped" it was gonna arrive SAFELY, It did'nt! they never PAID for insurance and NOW they have to pay out. THAT'S what the Self Insurance game is ALL about. HOPE.......Well when HOPE runs out,,,,You own ME $400.00 cause what I got Was smashed junk. You all think the POST OFFICE drags their feet,,now watch the SELLER,,,,drag this BUYER throught the ringer,,,,,send a picture, what does the box look like.....B.S. etc. and on and on ........send it back at YOUR expense for a closer look,,,,,hahahah........Insured with a reputable rep. other wise there NEVER was any SELF insured. HOPE! was the only.......insurance. Well hope and being CHEAP! Just ran out! AND to terminate all that B.S. in the first place,,,,,,Just add $1.49 for insurance to the postage rate in the first place. widget was $20.00...postage is $6.95 insured. and then,,,,,,insure it! Self insured is a cheapo's thinking. The insurance is paid by the buyer to protect the SELLER.
SSSSSSSnap! Crackle and Pop!
posted on May 30, 2003 05:39:29 PM new
When you say 'self-insured' you're also charging them the post office insurance rate? ( $1.30 up to $50 valuation -- $2.20 up to $100 valuation, etc ) That makes sense to me but the major problem I can forsee is that without the "INSURED" rubber stamp on the package many buyers may not realize that you are covering the item and instead are pocketing the insurance money. No matter how thoroughly you explain the self insure process there will be some that think you took the extra money. Might be some negative feedbacks or lost future sales as a result?
posted on May 30, 2003 05:43:26 PM new
Auctionace:
I actually charge less than the P.O. so my buyers know it is not from the P.O. In my ship notice I also let them know that if they chose insurance, it was provided by "private insurance".
posted on May 30, 2003 06:04:58 PM new
I do the self insure thing too. Everything I sell is shipped FedEx. They cover the first $100, so I feel that if anything was ever lost (which it never has been) I would refund the money, and file a claim for $100. Most of the items I sell fall into the $200-300 range, and i know it's risky, but FedEx's insurance really cost alot (compared to UPS) and they have never failed me yet, always been very reliable. More so that the post office.
Plus, if that EVER was to happen, I can easily get a replacement at no extra cost! Pretty cool huh???
I know this doesn't apply to all merchandise, but it has really saved me alot of money not adding on the extra insurance every time.
[ edited by akmcmc1 on May 30, 2003 06:05 PM ]
posted on May 30, 2003 06:13:56 PM new
We self-insure, and on such packages we slap a sticker that says "don't worry, your package is insured".
Only had one bad experience with it, and that was prior to using eDC. A buyer bought lots from us over a three month period, then claimed she never received 45 items.
Gosh, what a coincidence, they were the 45 most-expensive items we sent her.
Of course she was lying. None of them were ever returned to us. I haunted her website and her auctions for a while to see if the items turned up for sale but she was too wily for that. She has her own gift shop so she's probably selling them there.
Can't happen now that we use eDC.
Oh, and did I mention she negged me on all those items because I didn't send her money promptly?
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posted on May 30, 2003 07:57:48 PM new
postcardman.....did you really expect to walk into the post office with your Ebay printouts and have the clerk simply reach into the drawer and hand you $200? I'm afraid it just doesn't work that way. No matter who you insure with, your insurance is insurance if all goes well and the package arrives safely. If the package is lost, you find out that with USPS, UPS, or FedEx that your insurance has now become what is known as "your declared value". The burden of proof is now up to you to substantiate that "your declared value" is the proper insurance amount. In your case, it sounds like you'll get paid. Probably in 2-3 months, and after submitting the paperork and substantiation they ask for, and if they decide to investigate fully Internationally, don't expect to see any money for 6 months. But in the end, it sounds like you'll get paid.
posted on May 30, 2003 09:37:51 PM newFedEx's insurance really cost alot (compared to UPS)
Do you use Fedex air? (there insurance is still much cheaper than USPS)
Fedex Ground has the same insurance rates as UPS ($.35 for each additional $100)
I do only use FedEx Express. It seems like its about $1.25 or so per hundred compared to UPS's 0.35. But you're right, it is cheaper and better than USPS!
posted on May 31, 2003 08:17:24 AM new
60 days is a reasonable timeframe for intl insurance investigation.
that blue slip code is now logged in with the west european post office along with the signature.
to ask another post office in another country to find it and trace it and mail the papers back to you.you are talking 2 postal systems across 2 continents.
