paloma91
|
posted on August 20, 2003 11:24:51 PM new
what is this? I feel like my family was from china or something. Here is another of great grandma's treasures. It's a really pretty bowl. Very heavy for it's size. The painting on the bowl is almost as a relief. It sticks out! If you look closely at the bowl in the center, the round ring is metalic gold color! Around the edges of the picture where white porcelain should be is partly covered in the same gold color. It almost looks like it is a brass bowl that has porcelain on it and was painted over that. The bottom of the piece has a ceramic base. I tried three times to take fotos of this bowl. These are my best ones. Can anyone read the mark on the bottom? If it's upside down or side ways, please tell me and I will try to fix it.
[ edited by paloma91 on Aug 21, 2003 08:00 PM ]
|
tomwiii
|
posted on August 21, 2003 12:08:29 AM new
LOSE the BACKGROUND!
Really obscures yer item!
TRY black??
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
|
sanmar
|
posted on August 21, 2003 12:11:44 AM new
Someday, take a course in taking close ups. Then maybe you can get a clear pic of the backstamp.l
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 21, 2003 04:07:02 AM new
It is Chinese. According to my book, the mark reads (it's sideways so it's hard) Da Qing Qianlong Nian Zhi: "Great Qing Quianlong Period Made." 20th Century - 1960's. Rose Medallion. Hope that helps.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 21, 2003 05:40:42 AM new
Rose Medallion. Wow!
It's the camera. This digital camera can't get in that close for marks. I have to use my scanner or my film camera for real close ups for that. I will take a better foto of the mark.
Which charater is the top left. Should it go 90 degrees clockwise or counter clockwise?
Thanks so very much for your invaluable help and information
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 21, 2003 06:24:17 AM new
turn the closeup 90 degree clockwise and you will have the characters in correct view.
qien long is a emperor of qing dynasty,qing dynasty is the last dynasty of china ,after that it became a republic under dr sun yet san.
many repros are made and stamped qien long as during his reign,arts and culture flourished.
this looks like a good quality piece.
-sig file -------They may have ginsu knife,but we have DING KING!!!!
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 21, 2003 07:58:44 PM new
I Tried and tried with the digital camera. Can't get that close. I reposted the mark that I used my scanner with. Tell me if it looks better now. Is it facing the right direction?
-------------- Just remember--------------------------------------
You'll always land on your feet if you know where the ground is. . .
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 21, 2003 08:06:15 PM new
like dr doolittle said,YOU GOT IT.
A NICE REPRO .
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 21, 2003 08:10:19 PM new
A reproduction????!!! You're kidding, right?????
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 21, 2003 08:14:04 PM new
what make you think it is not a repro??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 21, 2003 10:21:51 PM new
What makes me think it's not?!! Well, it did belong to great grandma. She had alot of very very old stuff. Although I don't know much about this kind of china, I have seen some others that are also called "rose medallion and these pieces are all smooth. The one I have is bumpy, like someone used thick paint to paint it. You're right. I don't know much about this at all. That's the reason I post the query in the first place.
Stopwhining, when you said " like dr doolittle said,YOU GOT IT.
A NICE REPRO." I thought you knew something that I didn't know. That's why I asked if you were kidding.
[ edited by paloma91 on Aug 21, 2003 10:26 PM ]
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 04:35:24 AM new
The Qianlong Dynasty: 1736-1791. That is the date range your piece reads. Generally, those pieces were not marked.
Kanton porcelains are rarely marked, expecially with the imperial qianlong mark. The gold on the old pieces is not shiny and most often was a brown color instead of the gold. I have a bowl like yours (although not the exact same shape) that is 1960's. The earlier bowls (of which I have one), are not marked and are thin porcelain making them easily chipped.
Reproductions are not bad things. Fakes are bad things. Reproductions are still highly collectible and are not worthless. Fakes on the other hand are made exactly as the original and are meant to deceive. If this would have been Quianlong, there most likely would have been a ring around the bottom base of the bowl.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Aug 22, 2003 05:14 AM ]
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 22, 2003 07:45:59 AM new
there are ways to tell if an item is authentic antique or modern day fake or repro without using expensive testing methods such as TL testing-
technology has made it possible for paints manufacturer to offer different shades of color ,more vibrant color and more lasting color.firing in modern kiln is more precise and consistent with better temperature control.
if you really want to know if an item is made in japan,or england or germany,just consider the soil and water and the local paints supplier ,they will vary from region to region.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 22, 2003 08:41:21 AM new
Boy, do I have alot to learn. Thanks so much you two for the info. Cheryl, this ring around the bottom base you are speaking of, is that a rim of gold color on the outside of the porcelain base? inside?
stopwhining, that makes alot of sense. I guess I will continue reading of my books and the posts here. It should help alot.
|
LADYJEWELS2000
|
posted on August 22, 2003 08:54:53 AM new
Cheryl
Wouldn't want to share the name of the book you have with the mark in it - would you? I have been looking for one that would help me with some of my pieces too.
Thanks
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 10:15:32 AM new
The ring would be on the base not on the outside, but on the inside. Your bowl is 1960's or thereabouts. It would be a double ring most likely. Like I said, bowls of the Qianlong period were more often than not not marked.
Ladyjewels2000
I'll put the name of the book on once I get home. It's not a new book, however. My brother has shelves and shelves of reference books on orientalia and occasionally will let me grab one.
As stopwhining points out, it's more than just marks. It's knowing what colors were used when, how heavy the porcelain is from period to period and many other things. The bases are different in the older pieces. The gold on this piece is modern. Visit antique shops where you can hold an old piece. The amount of paint used on a piece really means very little. Through the years the colors may fade and through wear may not appear as three dimensional.
It's nevertheless a very nice bowl and should do well due to its unusual shape. If you look at the rose medallion on Ebay, quite a bit of it is repro and still selling for a decent price. There are some older pieces (19th century) on Ebay that you can compare to yours:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2551483098&category=37921
Notice the dullness of the gold and the absence of a mark on the bottom.
You also need to be careful on Ebay. Here is one that is not what it seems (NOT 19th C as advertised)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2552206337&category=37921
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 22, 2003 10:26:26 AM new
Cheryl,
Thanks so much. I see what you mean around the ring around the base. On the first auction you listed, I do see the brown ring on the bottom of the base. Sort of like a brown line around the bottom.
In regards to the second auction you have listed here, I saw that yesterday when I was trying to compare mine. One look and I thought that it wasnt real. Don't have anything to base my opinion on except it wasnt like mine at all.
My problem with going to antique stores around here is that they know just about as much as I do. NOTHING. Maybe a trip to the asian museum would be better. OH! I dont know
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 10:39:26 AM new
One HUGE clue would be the Made in China stamp on the bottom!
I may be be explaining the ring thing right. On the very bottom where your mark is is where the rings would be. Intead of encircling the mark, they'd be encircling the entire bottom (base) of the piece. If I think about it, I'll post a pic of my old piece. It's not worth much because it's fairly rim chipped, but I love it anyway.
Good luck with your piece. I'm sure you'll do well. As I said, repros are not bad. Fakes are bad and yours is not a fake.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
|
TheFamilyBiz
|
posted on August 22, 2003 10:51:03 AM new
Man, Cheryl. That last example could also be used to illustrate some excessive shipping costs, too.
|
paloma91
|
posted on August 22, 2003 11:47:03 AM new
OH DUH! Of course!!! I was so tired last night when I looked at it, It didnt even register.
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 11:53:20 AM new
Wow! I hadn't even noticed the $35 shipping! Talk about over kill! I can't see that selling. Not only is the ad misleading (and WRONG), but a good example of how NOT to sell something by charging excessive shipping charges.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
|
BIGPEEPA
|
posted on August 22, 2003 01:43:38 PM new
It takes more than Grandma's stuff and Ebay to become a dealer in antiques. Not only is the mark wrong but the glaze looks wrong also. Its not an old piece of Rose Medallion.
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 01:58:02 PM new
Here's one of my older ones as I said I would show you. There is a debate as to how old. I say 19th or early 20th C and I've had someone say 18th. I think I am right. My newer one is here also to compare:
See the difference in colors? The first one (the old one) is more pastel in color; the second is more vibrant. The gold is dull in the first (they were just developing use of the gold) and the second is bright.
Here are the bases:
It's hard to tell the difference in the photo, but the rim on the older one is much thinner and goes straight down, where the second has an angle to it (hard to explain). The older one has no mark, but when tilted you can see a circular pattern in the porcelain. There is also very little glaze on the old one on the bottom. The glaze is smoother and more uniform on the newer piece.
I forgot that I had given the bowl with your pattern to my daughter so I had to compare with the only other piece I have.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Aug 22, 2003 02:02 PM ]
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 22, 2003 02:54:49 PM new
i hate to rain on your parade,cheryl.
the 4 chinese characters said - extra work is added in HONG KONG.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
[ edited by stopwhining on Aug 22, 2003 02:55 PM ]
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 22, 2003 02:58:15 PM new
one must ask oneself-back in old old days,people are lucky to have paints-red is red,blue is blue and green is green.
variations of blue,red and green etc were hard to achieve.
on both pieces,you are seeing FUCHIA color.
how do you spell the word FUCHSIA??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
miscreant
|
posted on August 22, 2003 02:59:21 PM new
Which goes along with her saying it is a newer piece.
|
miscreant
|
posted on August 22, 2003 03:05:30 PM new
Since Rose Medallion was noted for the pink in the design say for the last 350 years, what is your point?
|
CBlev65252
|
posted on August 22, 2003 03:18:04 PM new
stopwhining
I said that the one was new! I know what the mark says. The one with no mark is old. Geesh, read what I wrote. Also, there is no FUSHIA in the top piece. The darker shades were achieved by applying more paint. I know the top to be old because it was given to me by an orientalist, a very pominent one in Shaker Heights. He and I both agree it is late 19th, early 20th C. The other piece is the last quarter of the 20th century.
Cheryl
Power to the people. Power to the people, right on. - John Lennon
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Aug 22, 2003 03:21 PM ]
|
ohmslucy
|
posted on August 22, 2003 04:58:52 PM new
Hi all,
Well, Cheryl, I think I have the plate that goes w/your bowl.
Of course it does have a BIG bite and a couple of chips on the rim but it's been doing it's very best whiz-bang job holding an African violet pot off the table!
I do believe I will treat it with a lot more respect from now on.
It's amazing the information on this board. No matter what the item is, there's always someone willing to share their knowledge and experience to help ID it.
Lucy
Skinny cooks can't be trusted.
|
noh2
|
posted on August 22, 2003 05:11:01 PM new
there is a sucker born every minute,in the antique world ,there are two every minute.
There is a seller on ebay based in seattle,for years he touted his oriental items are genuine antiques,some are TL tested ,all come with a money back guanrantee.If you can prove otherwise by producing a letter or testing by an expert,you get full refund.
Finally he was exposed by local newspaper,he is no longer selling on ebay,however if you click on his ME page,he quoted 2 professors in Hong Kong claiming the pieces in questions have been tampered with.
Sure,count me sucker number three!!
burgerflipper,you go first!!!!!
|
