seyms
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posted on September 3, 2003 01:33:50 AM new
Does anyone have a current working tel # for paypal fraud department? Thanks. Newbie(17) days on ebay has bid on 400+ high end cameras, winning 100+ and paying with paypal(confirmed address). I'm a little sceptical about the situation.
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seyms
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posted on September 3, 2003 04:11:38 AM new
An update-guy has bid on 437 auctions in 17 days. He has won or is high bidder on cameras totalling $17,600. I've been selling cameras for 6+ years and have NEVER seen this level of activity from anyone anywhere except the leading dealer/collector of early Nikon rangefinder cameras in Japan who is both well known and a long time ebay buyer and he only averages about $6,000 a week.
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Twelvepole
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posted on September 3, 2003 04:24:02 AM new
Are any of the auctions yours?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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seyms
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posted on September 3, 2003 04:29:53 AM new
Yes, 1.
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on September 3, 2003 03:12:40 PM new
As long as you ship to a Paypal confirmed address and have proof of shipment, then I don't think there's any risk to you. Take the money and ship the camera!
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seyms
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posted on September 3, 2003 03:26:45 PM new
Just got off the phone with paypal. If the card turns out to be "fraudulent" in the next several months the seller can be charged back regardless of the confirmed address. Have contacted ebay fraud department. The guy's bidding activity combined with his newness are too scary for me.
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stopwhining
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posted on September 3, 2003 05:53:01 PM new
there are bidders on ebay who are paid to do the bidding for others,in antique ivory category,i know of one and he bids on many items.
are the cameras new or still in production??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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Twelvepole
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posted on September 3, 2003 05:53:16 PM new
I understand your position, have you contacted the buyer? maybe they came into some money?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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stopwhining
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posted on September 3, 2003 05:54:21 PM new
if he can get a confirmed address with his credit card,he can shop on amzn and yahoo for new cameras,ebay bidding is too clumsy.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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ebayauctionguy
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posted on September 3, 2003 05:59:21 PM new
If the card turns out to be "fraudulent" in the next several months the seller can be charged back regardless of the confirmed address.
Huh?! What about Paypal's "Seller Protection Policy"?
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Fenix03
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posted on September 3, 2003 06:31:28 PM new
There is none on a fraudulent card.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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seyms
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posted on September 4, 2003 05:40:25 AM new
There is no seller protection in the case of a "fraudulent" card and who knows what paypal defines as a fraudulent card. 6 months can go by before it comes back to bite you in the ass.
The buyer is buying only used Nikon cameras and paying average/high prices ebay prices. The cameras are not collectibles but users. He could be buying for others but he's only been on ebay since August 15, 2003 so I can't see how he's developed that market so quickly. I'm thinking he's done this before under some other buyer name.
No answer yet from ebay fraud inquiry. I'll wait until late this afternoon(hoping ebay has something to say) and I will then return his money back thru Paypal and request a USPS MO. Have never felt remotely this uncomfortable with a transaction in 6 years and apx. 1500 camera auctions.
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Twelvepole
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:45:03 AM new
Just because he may not send you a MO is not a validation that this is a fraudulant CC transaction.
But you got to do what you feel comfortable with.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 09:53:17 AM new
there are still some parts of the world electronic goods are scarce and in demand,eg eastern europe,central america.
good used ones can be good sellers there,but i am not sure this ebay bidding is a economical way of acquiring used electronic goods.
if you dont feel comfortable,then ask for a money order or cashier check.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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pclady
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posted on September 4, 2003 11:40:56 AM new
I might be inclined to follow through if he is willing to use Bidpay to purchase the M.O. Is that a viable alternative?
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 12:58:50 PM new
did you check with the other sellers to see how he paid them?
bidpay is good for intl bidders,most domestic ones prefer paypal as YOu the seller picks up the tab.
it does not hurt to ask him to use bidpay??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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mcjane
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posted on September 4, 2003 01:47:48 PM new
About Bidpay, is that Western Union & how safe is it. Can the sender stop payment?
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tomwiii
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posted on September 4, 2003 02:01:39 PM new
MC-JANE: NO, the buyer CANNOT stop it -- once you get email #2 from BIDPAY, the MO is in the mail to you.
I've never read of an instance where a seller, accepting a BIDPAY MO, got stuck holding the bag!
99.99% of my INTERNATIONAL BIDDERS use it & love it -- OTOH, I DON'T accept non-USA, NON-confirmed payments to begin with 
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/vidrat/
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mcjane
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posted on September 4, 2003 02:28:45 PM new
Thanks Tom,
I have a friend that sold a bunch of domain names for 920.00
The buyer paid with paypal & then the domaines were transfered to him. He then went to paypal & said his account was hacked & never made that 920.00 payment.
Now paypal is after my friend to give the money back with threats of turning him into a collection agency.
He did as complete a check on the buyer as he could, verified addy & all only to find out from paypal that the person who paid him is in Russia, so that means the buyer is Russian, but somehow he managed to cover this up & appear to be an American in the USA.
My advice was to contact Damon on eBay chat & next time insist on Bidpay. I just wanted to be sure Bidpay was safe.
Does he have to give this money back, what do you think?
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 03:07:59 PM new
one last resort is to pretend you have your own merchant account and accept credit cards,ask him for his cc number,exp date and bill to and ship to address,telephone number.
if you have a friend who has merchant account,ask him to call the cc issuer and verify whose name is on the card and if it is a large sum,ask the bank to call the cardholder to confirm the purchase.
you can also use his phone number and do a reverse lookup to find his address.
if he sent you an email,his IP addr may be there and you can trace where it comes from.
as for bidpay,once you get a money order ,there is no stop payment,if it turns out to be fraud,bidpay eats the loss.
if he resents paying bidpay fee,offer to split it with him and pay the fee for him.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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mcjane
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posted on September 4, 2003 03:32:54 PM new
Stopwhining
A lot of the talking was done on IM & that checked out as coming from his email address, which was hotmail.
Funny thing is my friend is very computer savy. He makes his living at it, setting up web sites & such. I don't know how this Russian fooled him into thinking he was American & how did he fool PayPal into believing his account was hacked & how come my friend will probably come out the loser.
He never had his phone number, this was not done through eBay.
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 04:31:07 PM new
i thought paypal makes a difference in tangible property versus intellectual property,does anyone recall??
as for your buyer,if he has been buying since august,why dont you ask the other sellers how they are paid,it does not take that long for someone to file chargeback on fraudulent charges
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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Fenix03
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posted on September 4, 2003 05:28:44 PM new
Stop - there is no buyer or seller protection when it comes to non physical goods however if the account owner claims that the account was hacked and the charge was unauthorized then all bets are off.
BTW -this one sounds like it really was fraudulent. You cannot fool PayPal into believing that a Russian based bank account is US based. It's more likely that the actual account owner was conned by the Russian into giving up their password. Once the negotiations were completed, Russia logs into scammed account, possibly adds their email to the account temporarily, sends your friend payment, dumps their address from the account and logs out leaving a big surprise for the actual account owner when they log in.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:01:25 PM new
i recalled 2 years ago when paypal was young,there were some serious fraud ,one of them is coming from russia.the president was saying they are fighting fraud like sunami,cant remember how to spell that.
whatever happens to a guy who used to post here,he was selling e gold and some of his customers use fraudulent cards,he transfered all these proceeds into his bank account.
paypal called him one day and told him they are taking him to court,
he lost the case.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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seyms
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:28:46 PM new
I'm the original poster. I finally emailed the buyer and he says he sends the cameras back to Vietnam and sells them there. This is a most unexpected answer. Anyone any thoughts?
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uaru
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:35:31 PM new
Anyone any thoughts?
As long as you're shipping to a confirmed shipping address you really don't have any worries about unauthorized use or stolen credit card. I wouldn't care if the buyer's name was Jeffery Dahmer and he was ordering Ginsu knives, supplying the confirmed shipping address is all I'm interested in.
[ edited by uaru on Sep 4, 2003 06:36 PM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:49:41 PM new
there was a time japanese tourists were buying japanese cameras in hong kong,claiming it is cheaper in hk.
so it is possible,new nikon are expensive in vietnam and used ones are few and far between.
some hondurans will go back home with a package full of colgate toothpaste,deordorant and other essentials and claim they earn the plane fare by selling them to the local.
i know american books are sought after outside usa.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 06:53:12 PM new
uaru,
you did not read all the postings on this thread.
there is no seller protection on fraudulent cards.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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uaru
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posted on September 4, 2003 07:24:31 PM new
stopwhining uaru, you did not read all the postings on this thread.
I've read the postings.
If you can explain to me why you'd use a stolen credit card only to have the product shipped to the legitimate card holder's billing address you'll have done something that nobody else has ever been able to do. That's the whole point of shipping to a confirmed shipping address.
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stopwhining
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posted on September 4, 2003 07:43:08 PM new
it does not matter where you ship the item to-confirmed address is the address where his credit card statement is sent to.
if the cardholder said this is not my charge and i never receive the goods,his credit card company will believe him unless you have signature receipt.even with that,you may lose.
also what is a confirmed addr- a mail box rental at mail box etc??a house where there are many renters??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
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