posted on November 13, 2003 11:09:53 AM new
A week or so ago I posted a question asking to ID the maker of a Saki set. I think it was Sanmar, which I am not blaming you Sanmar, said it was Satsumi. Well I sold the saki set for $76.00 and now the buyer emails and says it isn't Satsumi. I did include the trademark, which I have posted again below, so wouldn't someone who collects that brand or maker know their trademark? I guess I will have to refund the money but I don't really feel it is my fault since I posted a very clear photo of the trademark.
What do you guys think?
PS. The buyer also said the maker is famous for crackled glass and this is porcelain. With the close up photos does this look like crackled glass?
[ edited by paws4God on Nov 13, 2003 11:13 AM ]
[ edited by paws4God on Nov 13, 2003 11:13 AM ]
posted on November 13, 2003 11:18:10 AM new
this is just a mark.
it is probably the trade mark of the manufacturer.
satsuma and imari if i understand it right,are different styles of japanese porcelain,any manurfactuer can make pieces in the style of satsuma or imari,the chinese have been making satsuma more intricate than most japanese makers can.
if i am reading the kansi characters correctly,the first character is handsome,second character is mountain.this is probably the trademark of the maker of these sake sets.
satsuma style is usually rather intricate and colorful with multi colors,dominant colors are orange and gold .you can search for satsuma on ebay or anywhere satsuma porcelain is sold.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on November 13, 2003 11:54:49 AM new
Satsuma is indeed a style and IMO this is Japanese Satsuma. Satsuma is mostly earthenware. There is Porcelain Satsuma with crackles which is possibly what your buyer is talking about. Since you didn't sell it as that, I think you're safe. IMO you have a buyer with buyer's remorse who is taking advantage of the fact that you don't know Japanese porcelain. These colors are Satsuma colors. Not all Satsuma has the mark of the circle and cross. I have a sugar bowl signed Kinkosan and it is Satsuma with no circle and cross mark. Visit www.gotheborg.com and post this piece. You will get expert opinions on it. Until then, I would not refund.
posted on November 13, 2003 01:27:40 PM new
Cblev---
Thanks for the site you posted. I had to register and now wait for confirmation or something like that. I emailed the buyer and told her I am waiting on an appraiser/expert to give me his verdict. I hope that is what I'm waiting on.
I don't want a neg over this of course and I do want to do the right thing. I think you may be right stopwhining. She may have thought she was buying an old set. I bought this in a place that sells antiques but that sure doesn't make it an antique. Besides in Chinese years it would have to be pretty old to be an antique.
I hope to hear from the gothborg site soon and get the question posted.
posted on November 13, 2003 01:35:18 PM new
I am really sorry if I mislead you or anyone else. This is a typical backstamp of Satsumi, red with gold scribing. I have had dozens of pieces, all with this type of backstamp.
posted on November 13, 2003 01:43:40 PM new
Sanmar---------
I don't blame you even in the least for the mixup or whatever it is. It will get worked out anyway. It has thrown another kink in my day but thats fine. Guess we all need kinks on our day sometimes. I learned a long time ago that most things are out of your control so just do the best you can and it will always work itself out.
Please don't feel bad about it Sanmar. I believe you and it may be like Cblev and stopwhining said it's just not what the buyer thought she wanted.
posted on November 13, 2003 01:51:29 PM new
It is quite possible your buyer thought this was something old. However, if you didn't state antique in your listing I think you're covered. Also, if they knew anything about Satsuma they know that it is still be made today. You posted clear pictures. IMO, I'd take the neg on this one. I can't see that you've done anything wrong at all.
posted on November 13, 2003 02:15:08 PM new
Sorry you are having problems. I don't think anyone on this board should say its this or its that. I think what people should say if they think they know what a piece is something like this, try looking you piece up under this name or that name and let the seller make up their own minds as to what the piece is. On you piece I would do what Lands End or L.L. Bean would do I would refund. Its shaky not making a refund because you didn't say if its old or not or the buyer should know what they are buying, or the buyer has remorse et. If more sellers would only act like Lands End or L.L. Bean Ebay would be a better place for all. None of us all always right buyer or seller.
posted on November 13, 2003 02:25:00 PM new
Bigpeepa---------
I think you are very right. I am certainly not blaming Sanmar. I took his/her opinion and didn't look anything up myself to see what Satsuma is. That puts the blame right back on me and nobody else. I should have researched it a little more.
I also think the buyer doesn't know much about the Satsuma either which makes the whole thing both our faults, mine and the buyers that is. I will probably end up refunding but don't know for sure at this point. It has been a rough day all the way around and I need to wait until tomorrow and have a clear mind, or as clear as mine ever gets.
This is way I love about this board. Everyone gives their honest opinion with hold back. It gives you many different prospectives so you can see many sides and make a better decision and feel better about your decision.
posted on November 13, 2003 03:32:05 PM new
There is an incredible amount of knowledge to be gained from some of the seasoned sellers on this board. I have learned a great deal, and I am sure others have as well. To be honest, I don't know alot about markings, etc., so I don't help in identifying much - but I am learning from those who do.
When someone posts a photo asking for help, it is ultimately his/her responsibility to do that last bit of "leg work" confirming that what he/she has is actually what has been identified (you get the gist). No one here is holding a gun to anyone's head to list something as they have identified it.
When sellers offer their opinion or expertise, it is done so in a spirit of helping others...passing along some of what they know to someone who needs assistance.
The comparison to LL Bean and Lands End is a joke. Other than the obvious, sellers would get crucified if we charged what LLB and LE does for s/h! Actually I have ordered from Lands End - and it was a nightmare trying to return something to them.
Lastly, BIGPEEPA, it is not up to you to determine what can and will and should be discussed on these boards.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 13, 2003 03:34:22 PM new
paws4God, you are thinking right. I say in my auction description "all auctions guaranteed 100% to be as described or your money back less shipping cost" maybe the buyer will share some blame and cost for honest mistakes by both parties. Even the big mail order houses don't refund shipping cost if the buyer has remorse or its the wrong size. Making refunds does not happen that often I just make the refund and move on. Good Luck with your business.
posted on November 13, 2003 03:55:54 PM new
bigpeepa
There is a huge difference, I think, between selling clothing and selling collectibles or antiques. Even jewelry for that matter. With clothing it's relatively easy since most have inside tags identifying them.
paws4god
Even I, as inexperienced as I am, can tell from looking at the base of your item that it is new. I'm sure your bidder could as well. There's no wear to the bottom at all from your photo (a good photo at that). Here's a picture of the pot I was telling you about that's Satsuma but not marked as such. You'll see the signature in the last photo:
I had no idea it was Satsuma until my brother's antiques partner told me. This little pot sits happily in my locked cabinet. Now, if I could just find the other pieces to go with it. Best of luck to you with your problem. It's a lovely, lovely vase.
posted on November 13, 2003 05:04:25 PM new
If you refund, you will have lost very little and know that the person on the other end is not filled with resentment. (Buyer should be willing to pay return shipping, however).
***
If you don't refund, you will feel bad about possibly misleading someone, and will have a person on the other end that feels cheated (rightfully or wrongfully).
posted on November 13, 2003 05:18:54 PM new
you can also offer a partial refund .
BIGPEEPA must just came back from lands end,how can ebay sellers behave like lands end ??
why dont we all make every homecook meal like a sitdown 12 course dinner??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on November 13, 2003 05:27:36 PM new
Com'on guys. Quit picking on Bigpeepa. He offered his opinion like everyone else and that is ok. That is what is different about ebay, we all set our own rules. If he wants to offer 100% guarantee that is his choice, and we don't have to agree to it, but we don't have to chew him up and spit him out either. I would be afraid to make that commitment for fear of too much buyer's remorse.
I think I've decided what I'm going to do about the saki set. She seems to be dealing in a rational manner so she might go for a compromise. The ones here who know about the Satsuma say that it probably is a Satsuma so she got what she wanted. The thing is maybe its not as old as she thought and not exactly the technique but it probably is the maker. I will try and see if she wants to do half her money back and she keeps the set. I don't want it back unless she wants all her money back. I did forget to insure it and owe her that refund if nothing else.
posted on November 13, 2003 05:48:03 PM new
pawsforgod
Sounds like a great idea! Ah, we aren't really picking on bigpeepa - we're just having fun in a Vendio Board sort of way. From time-to-time I'm on the receiving end, too. It's okay. This board would be no fun at all if we didn't poke fun once and a while.
posted on November 13, 2003 08:16:31 PM new
stopwhinning, I don't understand, why can't ebay sellers act like a big mail order business? After being in the buying and selling business for 40 years I am always looking for new thoughts. I would like to listen to what you have to say.
posted on November 13, 2003 08:47:41 PM new
wgm, I said I don't think a person should say for certain that a piece is this or that because often that person is wrong. If the advice givers think they know what something is they should say try looking this or that up. I did not mention about how much shipping charges are at either Lands End or L.L. Bean. I talked about what big mail order companies would do about returns. I see no difference between selling antiques, jewelry or clothes. Its all about the sellers quality of product,service and how they stand behind their sales. That's what the big companies do and do it very well. Now having said that please tell me why my thinking this way is a joke to you. I am always ready to listen to new ideas.
posted on November 14, 2003 05:24:02 AM new
BIGPEEPA,
ebay sales margin is getting thinner and thinner,really not enough to make lands end type of customer service gesture.
also many ebay sellers do not sell lands end type of products,it is just a different trade .
when you go to a fleamarket,the dealer may not even have a bag for you to hold your purchase,there is usually no paper receipt.
besides some of us do not do that kind of volume to spread our fixed cost and overhead across sales.
i doubt if any of these big sites are profitable standalone-bestbuy,walmart,barnes and noble etc.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
