posted on February 15, 2004 11:06:20 AM new
some people are just crazy. Twice this week I've basically been asked about my business (both times by women, they always are the ones to ask) - One at the post office, and the other through email because they live in the area. Like I am going to tell them how I buy my material, where I get it from, etc. I decided not to be rude to the one in person, so I gave her answers that would lead her down the wrong path. Guess you should be careful of advice you get from strangers, especially business advice!
posted on February 15, 2004 11:19:55 AM new
I know what you mean. I have even had postal clerks ask me what I am shipping, (they see me so often). My answer is "collectibles" Let them figure it out.
posted on February 15, 2004 11:21:32 AM new
In my experience, women don't "get it" that they are asking for trade secrets and that that is improper.
And they really get ticked off if you tell them you can't say.
That someone would take offense simply because you refuse to give away the information that cost you years of work and thousands of dollars to acquire must seem bizarre to most entrepreneurs. What planet are these women living on?
I think that women (and here I'm going to be in for a lot of flak) generally don't understand that some kinds of information are valuable. They are used to devaluing information in their day-to-day lives. Bombarded with advertising messages, chatting with friends about people they know and people they don't, getting pop culture (and no real culture) from the television, there's not much in the way of value in all that.
I used to dine alone, every day in a different restaurant. I would discreetly keep an ear cocked for the generalities of discussions at the tables next to me.
If the table consisted of all men, talk was about technology or sports.
If the table consisted of all women, talk was about colleagues, people in the entertainment world, or fictional characters on some TV show.
If the table was mixed, talk was pretty much about whatever the men wanted to talk about.
Try it for yourself sometime and see if you don't agree.
I have deliberately avoided self-help groups for women entrepreneurs because I suspect that there would be too much girlie interaction and not enough business going on.
posted on February 15, 2004 11:38:54 AM new
You won't get flak from me Fluffy, because I agree with your assessment. I have dealt with this before, so I have my answers down. In these conversations I am generally unengaging, but not rude. They are the ones who are usually talking, my answers are mostly yes and no. I will usually give them the opposite answer though, and have sent them down the wrong track. I also try to exit the conversation as quickly as possible, if I am in line at the post office I am stuck, but once I have done my business, I am out of there...
posted on February 15, 2004 12:13:14 PM new
I find what works the best is to just smile and change the subject or if they are real dense smile and say nothing.
Even the most clueless does catch on. As far as what they may think about me all I can say is "who cares".
posted on February 15, 2004 12:30:46 PM new
Fluffy: You're right about the topics of conversation when it's a mixed group. In fact, sociologists have studied this and have found that when, say, two couples are dining together, the men direct the conversation and the women are there as social lubricators to keep the conversation going and make sure the men are happy. We women can get pretty bored with what the guys want to talk about, after a while. But if we want to discuss, say, decorating, or some hobby we're interested in, the guys are visibly restless and bored. It's a known fact!
There are exceptions, of course. If people want to know what I sell on Ebay, men and women alike are very interested! I guess that's because we're discussing making money, "real stuff".
This is all true, folks! Just check out any mixed couple dining somewhere next time you're out, and you'll see the men talking and the women looking at them in an interested way, nodding, asking questions to further the conversation, etc. (We don't enjoy doing this, but it's sort of expected, isn't it?!)
One of the many reasons women enjoy getting together, just the "girls," so we can talk about what we're really interested in without having to please the guys who are present.
___________________________________
"I have resolved to allow my friends their peculiarities." -- Samuel Johnson
[ edited by Roadsmith on Feb 15, 2004 12:33 PM ]
[ edited by Roadsmith on Feb 15, 2004 12:34 PM ]
posted on February 16, 2004 05:35:17 AM new
I totally agree with you, ebayvet! I woke up this morning to this email in my inbox, sent through "ask seller a question"...
"How do you have so many pairs of these?Are any of them used or anything?How old are they and how much did you buy them for?THANX!Your response is greatly appreciated!~Rich"
Checked his user id, and he just registered Saturday, with no auctions yet bid on.
It takes all kinds!
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on February 16, 2004 06:10:40 AM new
When asked where I get my antiques? I tell them the truth " I WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK 12 HOURS A DAY" that shuts them up. I give the same answer to those that say you must make a lot of money selling antiques. I also give the same answer to this statement you are in a fun business selling antiques.
posted on February 16, 2004 06:11:30 AM new
ebayvet, there are many ways to safeguard your vast and hardwon experience. But youre saying you lead someone down the wrong track is just such a paranoid thing to do.
You could just as easily say there are books or tapes on the subject if they were interested in learning more. There is so much information out there. If anybody wants to learn anything wtf do they need to GET IT from you at an obviously such a super-sized loss to you? How frig**N insecure are you in your sales and skills, that you think if a novice asks you a couple of questions that is going to infringe on your big fat elitist sales territory?
Your comment makes me sick. Its what people in power do to keep other people oppressed.
And I dont think its anything to brag about.
I hope you never take a wrong turn off a highway and end up in a bad neighborhood. I'm sure some wise azz schlep would love to give you the right directions back to the highway. (But then you could just blame on they are bitter, uneducated, poor people with a chip on their shoulder.)
"The more you think your life is your own, the less you will have of it."
posted on February 16, 2004 06:57:19 AM new
I guess I am different. If someone asks me I will tell them. I don't care who knows what I sell. If they see me around town they know I buy jewelry so what is the secret. If someone gets to an estate sale before me, which now a days they can, and they want the jewelry it is less for me to spend. I have a room full of it that will take me a couple of years to get rid of so I am really not looking for anything, just looking.
posted on February 16, 2004 07:26:02 AM new
That's fine for you, Libra, but you're a hobby seller. Your sources are such that you couldn't protect them if you wanted to. Estate sales are open to all.
If you had an exclusive wholesale source for those expensive sweaters you like to sell, would you be so quick to pass along the source to others and ruin your eBay sales? I don't think so. That's not selfishness, that's prudence.
As far as Neroter's comments go, at first I was going to assume she's having a bad day and leave it at that. But the closing comment indicates such an overweening sense of entitlement that it literally takes one's breath away.
Neroter, I hope you find a way to heal your ailing spirit and be content in your own life, so that you no longer feel the need to lecture others on what they must do with theirs.
posted on February 16, 2004 08:29:23 AM new
my two cents worth.....this is a great topic and I'm glad it was brought up. Lately, I've
had so many people ask me where I get my merchandise and usually I have the same answer. "I worked day and night for four years to find my source." That's it. It usually stops people from asking more. Sometimes, not. When that happens I try and be as vague as possible.
Last week my spouse's cousin came by to visit from out of town. Grilled me for an hour of questions. Next day when she got home, I received a phone call from a friend of a friend. She then grilled me with questions. She basically wanted me to set up her business, give her my supplier and help her run the auctions....yeah, whatever.
You feel sorta used after those conversations. I ended it by saying that I would be willing to sell some of my stock to her (at a profit) of course. Well, soon to find out...she just wanted it for free....hasn't called again...LOL
[ edited by cramer on Feb 16, 2004 08:41 AM ]
posted on February 16, 2004 08:43:34 AM new
I don't think some people realize how many years it takes to build a good business. I've had people ask for a list of my suppliers because they want to start up. I've had them ask to borrow my books on collectibles too. It infuriates me when they walk into my shop and tear the tags off items so they can get the supplier's name or other info.
I spend hours doing research and I've spent years learning and part of that is making mistakes. Why should someone else get all the information for free? Usually they are not motivated enough to do things for themselves. I don't mind giving help or advice but some of my knowledge comes with a price tag. I'm nice but I'm not stupid.
posted on February 16, 2004 08:58:13 AM new
Not paranoid neroter12, just smart. This is business. My advice will have them looking in the wrong places to buy things, etc. If they had stopped breathing at the post office, I wouldn't walk away no matter how annoying, I would perform CPR.
It is amazing how many people (including yourself) confuse business savy with being cold and heartless. Re-read your comments and mine, I feel sorry for you being so vindictive and wishing others ill-will on a personal level. I'm actually pretty involved with my community donating, volunteering, mentoring, etc. That doesn't mean because I do all that (and I like doing these things) I should roll over and give someone information that will affect my livlihood. Think about it! If I can't make a living, I can't help others!
One thing I've actually done is offered other sellers advice to make their business more profitable, much like what I find here. I'm all for that kind of communication, but when someone questions me on where I buy my stuff, and wants that information which in some cases took years of work, they deserve the answer they get...
posted on February 16, 2004 09:09:31 AM new
Fluffy, I knew you'd give it the thumbs down, but I posted what I feel anyway. lol
Its not that I have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. I am not talking about disclosing your treasured wholesaler or whatever cards you hold to your chest to stay in the poker game, here. Also not talking about getting suspecious emails or inquries from competitiors.
But I dont expect you to understand that last statement if you cant admit you ever felt the power the of it. But you have dear fluffy. When you give something away thats not really your own anyway, you experience a snap crackle pop in the universe around you that has its own undeniable energy.
You do it when you give away your humor etc in your writing. Thje only thing that last sentence means is what you give, is what your gonna get back. Give nothing; get back nothing.
tweleve, I think you're so afraid of losing something, anything you probably never even swapped spit with somebody without thinking what is this gonna do to me?
posted on February 16, 2004 09:10:20 AM new
I'm off to a trade show for four days next week. It will cost me, all things considered, about $1000 to attend. If I come away with a dozen promising contacts that lead to three rock-solid suppliers coming onboard, then it will be money and time well-spent.
The show is open, as such things usually are, to anyone in the industry. Ms. Tell-Me-Your-Secrets-So-I-Can-Sell-Too can have 1000 business cards printed up for less than $20, so she can do precisely what I'm doing. But she won't.
posted on February 16, 2004 09:15:38 AM new
kiara, you are so right.
It does take a lot of time, energy, and money to accumulate contacts, resources, and suppliers. Plus it is something we have to stay on top of continually.
I have noticed too that most of the people who ask seem to think eBay is a "get rich quick scheme" - they have no clue what all is involved, especially the long hours!
I have a friend who decided she wanted to start selling on eBay, and asked if I would help her get started. I didn't mind sharing information about Vendio and general selling tips - but she didn't even know what download meant! I recommended she take a computer course. I have some books on eBay and other reference books, and she asked if she could have them if I was through with them - so I referred her to Books a Million and the local library...
She then starts calling several times a day trying to pick me about where I get things. When that doesn't work, she starts stopping by my house to see if she can see anything (trying to be nonchalant, of course).
Well, she called last week and decided that I definitely have too much stock and thought that we should "go into together" - and to "buy her way in" with me she would "pay the shipping for two months"! I am serious! I just spent what is equivalent to five months shipping on stock last week! LOL!
Now this is not a close friend - it is just a friend that I only ran into occasionally, but it became obviously more frequent when she found out that I sell on eBay. Needless to say, I said "thank you but no thank you - I don't have a partner because I don't want a partner...and I do just fine making my own business decisions"
It's not a matter of "trying to keep others oppressed" - it's smart business.
__________________________________
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to the people who sleep under the very blanket of freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said 'thank you' and went on your way." - A Few Good Men
posted on February 16, 2004 09:18:14 AM newYou do it when you give away your humor etc in your writing.
No. I am a trader in the purest sense of the term. I "give away humor" because I expect and intend to get something back. So it is no gift.
It may be squandered -- I sometimes think so. Ayn Rand used the phrase "Giving away pearls without getting so much as a pork chop in return" in one of her books.
But if I am not getting full value for my product, it's up to me to find a marketplace where I will.
posted on February 16, 2004 10:23:53 AM new
nueroter as others have already pointed out... business is just that business... it is not charity in any shape or form...
I myself as far as eBay is concerned am a hobby seller, do I mind helping other hobby sellers? No
If I were a full time seller and eBay was my livelyhood, I would be like those people you see on infomercials... selling "How to sell on eBay for fun and profit." Send me only $39.99 for 3 monthly payments...
I would personally never ask a seller specifics about their business, I would listen to what they had to say and if it seemed plausible try it, if not try my own methods and see what worked best for me.
It's nice to have "friends" in business but rarely do they ever pay your bills.
posted on February 16, 2004 10:36:30 AM new
Ebayvet, it was not vindicate. I've had that happen to me. And I said, "I hope it doesnt happen to you", because its nasty.
It was an example of this so-called entitlement to the other extreme.
You're "deciding not to be rude" by sending them down the wrong path" is just as inconsiderate, and &(*&()-up and RUDE as me (if I were that schlep in that neighborhood) thinking, "I've taken some long hard knocks to know these streets to survive this jungle here, let me just give this brother some wrong directions cause he got nerve thinking he could be here and ask for my help. As opposed to "no man, I dont know where the blah-blah-blah street is, or how to get to it.)
Fluffy, if *she* is supposed to mean me in your posts, I dont really want be you, or do what you're doing. I've bought books and do my own research so I dont think I ever asked for your "secrets". I did in general ask for information and direction about wholesalers which I am still not really interested in, but if you purposely gave me the wrong information, I'm sorry I cant respect that.
Ebay vet said he was asked about his business at the post office. It sounded to me like a casual inquiry. He didnt say oh they are hammering me night and day for my trade secrets. Everywhere I go they are asking me to divulge my sources!!
Clerks at the po and elsewhere have asked me about selling on ebay from time to time. People who dont do ebay are curious about it especially if they've only just heard of it and dont understand how it works. If they ask outright who is your wholesaler or information you think is too nosy or blatent thats another story but people really have an interest in doing this you're denying them or suppling them with a few crumbs or your hard earned knowledge is not going to stop them from where they will eventually wind up anyway.
posted on February 16, 2004 10:44:26 AM new
Neroter: When I said "she" I was referring to the females who ask these questions. As ebayvet and I have both noted, it always seems to be women who just assume you will give away the store gladly.
\i gotta get to work. Iyt will go better for you at the show than you think fluffy! I know this!!!
Tweleve, I know all about business and not being a friendship, etc, etc. but I was talking about something on a higher plane. Sorry to have insulted you, but I dont think you get what I mean.
posted on February 16, 2004 11:21:56 AM new
I've had people ask for my wholesale source for beads, etc when they are making craft projects to sell at fairs and some get quite upset when I won't divulge it. If I tell them they will require a tax number to buy they argue that they won't be buying very often like I do.
Some customers have asked me for a supplier's name for jewelry so they can buy one ring for the wholesale price. Others have asked outright what my cost was. I realize that many are clueless about business but some should know better. Do they walk into Walmart and ask those questions?
I have to agree that it's mostly women that ask the questions. And from my experience, female sales reps are the least trustworthy to do business with and also the most flakey to deal with. If it's a male rep he usually focuses on the product and business, though there are the occasional ones that will try to hit on you if you're female.
Some female reps start to talk about their life, their boyfriends or husbands, hairstyles, etc or sometimes ask very personal questions. Once they start down that path they seem to lose focus that they should be selling the product they're representing and I find them annoying to deal with.
you said:
.."i decided not to be rude, but lead her down the wrong road."
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..when i started to read your initial thread, i could see another bitter, disenchanted ebayer who feels FORCED to do business with the ugly dragon!
..but as i steered thru to your final replies, i was glad to hear more than just "agg'ing and hiss'ing...well said..
..i would never agree with you about purposefully misleading someone -- but i wont call you spiteful-or arrogant,etc...for, i admit it::: i ENJOY the opposite attitude:: that of telling people no way am i gonna share my info...and i am probably most spiteful for saying/admitting that..[i like the look on their face.]
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..both sides of the coin will intersect somewhere, for i bet we agree on this; no one gonna get-deserve a free ride..
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MYOPINIONOFCOURSE
posted on February 16, 2004 12:37:53 PM new
I'm dyin over here.... No sooner do I finish reading this thread, and contemplating a reply than I find this post from our old friend Salgal over in "Other Auctions"
Home > Community > Other Online Auctions ... > Where can I get the following:
Distribution for Ebooks and audio books?
(I know this belongs in WANTED, but it seems nobody goes there)
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on February 16, 2004 12:46:51 PM new
I have probably gotten a dozen people started on eBaying. That doesn't happen anymore. If anyone brings up eBay, I ascertain of they are interested in buying or sellling; potential sellers I steer towards Ioffer and potential buyers hear me talk up shopgoodwill or the like. It is much harder to convince those I have lead down the eBay path to try another 'venue'. This is about sharing expertise, right?
more than just "agg'ing and hiss'ing...well said..