posted on January 10, 2005 01:49:27 PM new
Well, the numbers are in for 2004 and it's a sad lot. With all my sales and overhead I about broke even. I haven't finished adding in ebay fees as their billing system is hard to figure out so for now that part is an estimate until I get that added. Working just for the sake of working is NOT my idea of fun so I give up. Back in 99 when I started it was fun and fairly easy but things have changed and I guess I didn't know how to change with it enough to make it.
I've had a B&M business for over 10 years and did quite well but sold that when I remarried and moved to another state so I know how to run a business. Obliviously I don't know how to buy for ebay. I sold a ton of books at a good profit in auctions and in my store, lots of china/dishes, new and vintage jewelry and a few other things. I have good feedback and reasonable shipping. After you add your cable Internet, inventory, misc. office supplies, shipping supplies most of which I dumpster dive for so I paid for very little, Vendio, ebay and paypal fees it really adds up.
Part of the problem is everyone out there is hunting for the same things and they are had to find now plus the heavy competition on ebay with lower prices. Plus garage and estate sales price their goods according to ebay prices so dealers can't buy anything to sell and make a profit. All the fees, which I know the companies have to make a living too so I don't begrudge that, add to the mix. It's just not feasible any longer to make much on ebay. It seemed like I was making a profit selling but when you take out all of your expenses it ain't so good. It you don't have a 75% sell through you better look at the profit and loss ratio and hope it isn't like mine.
I made some money doing consignment sells but when you consider the time involved for 20% it isn't great either. I have told my full time client who I do consignments for I will no longer be selling on ebay but the other one is dry on goods to sell. She has some great antiques but wants too much for them so it's a waste of my time and her money to list them.
If I could find a new product that I could get for a good price it might work otherwise it's hasta la vista ebay world.
I see new sellers with 14 FB and think about how it will feel when reality sets in and they realize they can't make it. Of course there are those who will continue to do well but many sellers will be leaving. That will help the ones who can stay through the lean times as the sellers thin out a bit.
At the end of Feb. I'll close down my account with Vendio and my ebay store and be outta here. One good thing is my garage won't have boxes stacked in the corner and I will have my ebay room back as a normal room! I know many of you will still do a great business and I wish you the best.
posted on January 10, 2005 02:38:51 PM new
tomwilly==== (that's how your name always looks at first glance)
I have most of my listings in the store or about 3/4 store and 1/4 auctions. But if you don't have enough products you can't make enough sales to pay for all the monthly fees such as cable, Vendio and store fees. There may be a way to do it but I haven't figured it out yet.
I looked into buying some jewelry from India but researched it on ebay and the prices they are selling it for are lower than getting it from India. I don't understand how anyone can make it on the prices they (jewelry sellers on ebay) charge. Maybe they buy in such bulk they get it dirt cheap. I've spent hours surfing and comparing prices but haven't come up with anything yet.
I don't understand how some of these people do it either. My SIL sells Mary Kay off eBay. She told me that the ones on eBay are selling it cheaper than she can buy it.
Even with what I sell, some are giving it away. There is no way they can buy it that cheap, even if they buy $10,000 at a time. I don't think they are buying that much. When I look at their feedback it is clear they order some of it after they sell it.
Be kind. Everyone is fighting their own secret battles.
...Author Unknown
posted on January 10, 2005 03:10:49 PM new
many sellers are liquidating their inventory,they have brick and mortar stores at one time and now they just need to raise cash.
a survey done years ago showed before the retailers filed for bankruptcy,they order large quanitity from wholesalers with no intention of paying.
This is one reason they can start their asking bid low,as their cost is zero.
others could be stealing from their employers,so cost is zero for them as well.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on January 10, 2005 04:44:35 PM new
I agree. I am SO over it. I keep telling my husband's investment group to sell their Ebay stock.
Out of the last few transactions as a buyer on Ebay....
One didn't accept PP so I sent cash - stupid I know but I couldn't get to the bank to buy a money order - sent it with DC and the PO is showing it as delivered...the seller says they didn't get it.
Bought a microwave that was described with "a" dent. When I got it it was dented in 4 places. Seller said it probably happened in shipping. NOT. The box showed no damage.
bought a BIN item and was ripped off on the shipping.
It's like thieves and scammers are taking over Ebay. It's certainly enough to make me think twice about buying anything on Ebay. And if that's my opinion - I can only imagine what everyone else is thinking.
It's just not what it used to be - a great place to get a good deal.
But then...the internet is not what it used to be - but I don't see that going by the wayside. So I don't know.
posted on January 10, 2005 04:48:08 PM new
paws4god
I feel your pain! I don't think I even broke even last year. In fact, I think I'm a bit in the hole. It helps me, though. I get a 1099 from one of my jobs (fortunately, it only accounted for a bit over $5,000 last year) and taking a loss on eBay lessens the tax burden all the way around. This year I should be getting money back (at least I can thank eBay for something). I'm not looking for that for next year though. I'm sitting here with a pile of papers on my desk a mile high. I keep everything. If I ever get audited (knocking on wood), it will take the auditor a month of Sundays to figure it all out.
I can relate to the fee thing. Between eBay, PayPal and Vendio they were well over $2,000 for the year and I'm only a part time seller. I can't imagine what others have paid for the year.
It would be nice if eBay came out with an annual report of your sale totals and fee totals. It's murder trying to figure it all out.
Cheryl
"Success in almost any field depends more on energy and drive than it does on intelligence. This explains why we have so many stupid leaders."
-Sloan Wilson
posted on January 10, 2005 04:53:13 PM new
Some sellers also sell below cost just to keep paying on the credit cards they used to buy their inventory with or they sell it for nothing after they filed bankruptcy like stop said.
**********************************
Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on January 10, 2005 04:58:16 PM new
I would be willing to bet if most small sellers kept track of all expenses and profits they are breaking even at best.
I keep thinking the people who have the estate sales will realize they aren't selling anything because their prices are too high. I can buy things cheaper on ebay than at the local estate sales. It will even out sooner or later though. Because of ebay nothing is rare and prices are at rock bottom for almost everything except the rare and hard to find, which isn't much these days. The Internet has changed the world but some people haven't figured it out.
If I could find a new product and source for it I would pretty much just do store sales but I have been looking for 3 months steady and haven't found it yet. I'm only 6 hours (in Tx that isn't far)away from the Dallas Mart that is the source for retail stores. However their prices are too high for ebay for the most part. I know there has to be a way to find something(s) and I will keep looking but it may take a long time to find something. If it's meant to be it will be and if not I'll find something else.
posted on January 10, 2005 06:07:20 PM new
sthoemke, I'll bet that more than 90% of the eBay stock owners don't give a hoot about FLD, and quite possibly don't know what one is! If anything, they know that a FLD is given when there's a lull in auction initiation, and thus no FLD is viewed as a plus.
paws4God, not that I had a massive 2004, but if you're doing consignment for 20%, you can't make money (unless your items are > $1000 selling price). Our commissions are 35% of the first $500, 25% of the next $500, and 20% for the amount over $1000. Very expensive items (e.g., > $3000 expected sales price) get a flat 20%, usually. AND IT'S STILL TOUGH!
We're in a lull right now, with a couple dozen auctions only. We usually have 100 going at once. I have to hire a couple more people to replace two that bailed. But, I'm not giving up. Maybe I'm stupid
posted on January 10, 2005 06:11:21 PM new
Cblev=========
I gave up on reading ebay's billing system for my year end. I went to paypal, since I pay as I go with my paypal funds, and you can get a history of just payments. I then got my credit card statements and saw what was charged that I didn't pay with paypal and added the two. I emailed ebay and ask if I could get the year end total from the website and they gave me this run around about copying and pasting into excel and using the help menu to figure out how to total the columns......HUH? My way was very easy and I should have thought of it sooner.
We will also get a refund this year since I had no profit. I'm still working on the figures. My husband just can't believe after all the work I've done that I didn't make anything. I will let him see the actual number in a few minutes so he will believe.
posted on January 10, 2005 06:29:03 PM newthetrinityboutique:
I was a total NEWBIE to the feeBay STORES &, after my BAD experience with my VD STORE (NO sales after 2 years ), I was leary about any STORES...
Until I had an epiphany (Ralphie fahted) & it dawned on me that the SINGLE most important factor for SURVIVAL today is this: MAKE YER BUYERS BUY FROM YER STORE!
Soooooo, Ralphie & I now dedicate ourselves to that HOLY MANTRA -- ALL listings are designed to shove folks into our STORE to hopefully buy HIGHER PRICED items THAT ONLY COST 5cents TO LIST!
Eureka!
Cowabunga!
VISIT: Ralphie's Eclectic Garden of Earthly Delights & Swedish Marital Aids here:
http://tinyurl.com/3rd5a
posted on January 10, 2005 06:33:34 PM new
This subject is sorta on the lines of the postings for " Sales and hits waaaaaaay down".
If you're in antiques and collectibles, I don't care how far and wide you look for "new stuff" or new trends.........
I consigned a huge lot of items to a local auction house (knowing full well I could sell them on eBay) but I made 4 times what I could have sold them on eBay. A lot of people out there must be looking for inventory and not doing their research.
I think a lot of veterans in antiques and collectibles who have had experience before eBay have seen the down trend and the changes. I hold out little hope for the "lont-term" success of product-based businesses.
Disclaimer:
**YES!! I know there's an occasional item or two that will sell for big $$ but there not so common as to continue on forever this year, the next, etc.........I do have to say Civil War items still do well, but then a Civil War Dealer may say the same thing I'm saying....not as good as they use to.......
[ edited by toybuyer on Jan 10, 2005 06:34 PM ]
posted on January 10, 2005 07:10:19 PM new
dont forget another factor-it used to take years for a collector to add to his collection,now with ebay,it takes just months-log on to ebay after dinner every nite and you find all you can eat collectibles.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on January 10, 2005 07:21:20 PM new
The thing I hear a lot that gets me is the higher fees by ebay is pushing people out of the auction business. Say you Sell 100 items a week, at $20 each so that is $2000 grosss.
When I started on ebay in 1997, that would have cost me $125 in fees
Today, in 2005, That costs me $140
That's 12% over 8 years, or 1.5% per year. I believe since 1997, it is over 2% so ebay fee increases are BELOW the annual rate of inflation.
posted on January 10, 2005 08:00:42 PM new
ebayvet====
It isn't just the ebay fees it's everything combined as I said in my first post. There are probably 7 or more things that factor in. Yes, the fees are a big factor but it is part of doing business.
As another thread said a few days ago paypal and vendio were free. They have to make a profit too though so that's ok but it has changed the bottom line for the seller. With ebay going up on fees I'm sure they had to because of the volume on ebay they had to hire more employees. Nonetheless it all adds up and has a snowball effect on the whole picture. When people have garage sales and estate sales they find out that many of the buyers sell on ebay and realize the profits they are making so they raise their prices to get in on the wave and yet another hike in the sellers cost of doing business.
It all adds up and at this point it adds up to a lot of sellers having to quit due to the ever increasing business costs and low or no bids. I finished getting my numbers added for the CPA and it was worst than I thought so unless something drastically changes, which I doubt will, I will bow out and find something else to do. I think I can find something that pays me more than $2.68 an hour.
[ edited by paws4God on Jan 10, 2005 08:05 PM ]
posted on January 10, 2005 08:17:43 PM new
I wasn't referring to you specifically, because you did list a lot of other factors that are relevant. I was pointing out those who claim the fees are doing them in, and that ebay is greedy, etc. Their fee increases have actually been quite reasonable.
Paypal does cost to use, but I used a merchant account in 1997 before paypal with similar fees. Paypal is currently less expensive than my merchant account, and much more convenient. I offset the higher fees by simply adding a handling charge.
Anyway, I do hear you, that things have changed on ebay. It's tough to be a professional ebayer, because you are dealing with lots of competition that aren't playing on the same field. I break them down to two factors
1) The part timer who doesn't understand how to run a business, they just add up all the money that comes in, and thinks they are doing great. Since ebay is not their main job, they may be losing money but think they are making money.
2) The hobbyist who is looking to justify what they do. Maybe a stay at home mom, maybe someone who just likes to brag, maybe a lonely person who likes to interact with others in a nice environment. All three of these are probably not looking at the bottom line that closely
I think there will be some sort of shakeout, which is probably good for those who remain. I respect your decision to leave, I actually think there is more money to be made teaching people about ebay than actually selling on ebay. I am starting to work on going that route, maybe your years on ebay can assist you with that. Good luck.
posted on January 11, 2005 01:12:30 AM new
Ebay fees are very reasonable - if your stuff sells. If you are only selling 10-15% of your stuff, ebay fees will eat up your profit fast. I'm preparing to move on to something better.
Ebay had better watch out for free local websites like craigslist.org. It's really starting to boom in my area.
posted on January 11, 2005 01:27:22 AM new
August 13, 2004 - Online classifieds and community site Craigslist has picked up a very high-profile investor, eBay, which has taken a 25 percent ownership interest in the smaller firm. Ebay bought out an existing shareholder who had once been a Craigslist employee.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 11, 2005 07:29:52 AM new
Thing is I had around a 40% + sell through rate. Plus I bought some things for a steal of a price and made a tidy profit. It's the other 50% or so that don't sell that will get ya. The price you paid for the item plus the fees for listing it. You can put it in your garage sale and recoup some of your loss but not all. Also I had to buy a new computer, which was on special, and my old camera software wouldn't work with XP so I had to buy a new camera and all that was only $1400 but that did eat some of the profit.
If all the part-time sellers, and some full-time, would keep track of all expenses they would be very surprised at what the bottom line is. It sure looked like I was making some money with all the paypal deposits etc. but as I said the numbers don't lie and the truth was pretty sad.
[ edited by paws4God on Jan 11, 2005 07:30 AM ]
posted on January 11, 2005 09:18:40 AM new
Hello,
Don't reply to threads here much anymore as I basically quite Ebay Feb 2004 (started as a seller Sept 1998).
I sold stamps, covers, stamp collections and occasional other stuff as we all do.
I used to easily find stuff to sell at stamp shows and other areas, priced very cheaply. Slowly this source dried up as everyone became aware of Ebay. In 2003 I made 6000 profit after working like a dog for many,many long hours.2002 was 12,00, 2000 was 18,000. Year end audits are the ONLY way to go.
I fine tuned with stores etc but could find no improvement on the supply side so I finally quite as a seller (I still buy on ebay)
The profit is gone, as is the fun so I quite and did other things.
Not selling on Ebay is NOT the end of the world, more like liberation.
David
I donna know what Ralphie & I would do without feeBay!
I mean, like it's a nice activity we can do together as a "family" (give me a break)
He hunts for items to sell on his cute little ACER laptop, while I make up the listings on my PC -- tried to get him to do the listings, but....HIS SPELLING IS TERRIBLE! (yer one sick puppy, dude)...
I'd hate to try CUB SCOUTS again (you need serious PROFESSIONAL help, mister)-- he's already been thrown out once already for chewing up all the pinewood derby cars
VISIT: Ralphie's Eclectic Garden of Earthly Delights & Swedish Marital Aids here:
http://tinyurl.com/3rd5a
posted on January 11, 2005 10:12:45 AM new
I agree with you, tomwiii. In fact, I just computed my taxes and am taking a loss. Like I said previously, it helps me tax-wise. At least I don't have to pay this year. Of course, tracking the vehicle usage, taking depreciation for my computer, etc. helped lower the numbers. However, many, many businesses will find themselves in the red from last year. The economy is bad no matter what anyone says. You have to weather the storm, so-to-speak. Fortunately, this month so far is making up for a bad November and December. Heck, I live in Cleveland. I'm used to weathering the storms especially during winter. The weather is worse than eBay these days. Woke up this morning to snow and freezing rain yet again. I've become a real expert at driving in it.
Cheryl
"Success in almost any field depends more on energy and drive than it does on intelligence. This explains why we have so many stupid leaders."
-Sloan Wilson
posted on January 11, 2005 10:43:55 AM new
Altho I am not an accountant,I have a CPA certificate and I do my own income tax .
I start selling on Ebay 9 years ago and I started keeping track of my internet sales and expenses every month,I will book the direct expenses and allocate portion of my fixed expenses such as rent and utilities and I even paid myself a salary.
I will amortise and depreciate my software and hardware purchases,at one point I even made my business picked up my healthcare premium.
One year i even gave myself a raise.
As I closed my books month after month and prepared profit and loss statement,the trend was very clear-sales declined and expenses remained the same.
I have to sell more to make up for lower bids,i have to sell in multiple venues and diversify my product mix.
I understand how you feel,Ebay is now truly a flea market and if you are thinking of going to dallas merchandise mart and find something nice to sell on ebay,my advise to you is forget it!! The bidder mentality is such they expect you to sell them at scrap price or closeout price which you cannot do.
Ebay is doing the right thing,raise the barrier of doing business in cyberspace,when it is easy and cheap for anyone to get into the industry,you are going to see a glut of sellers and the prices will just crash.
This trend of lower and lower prices cannot continue,closeouts/remainders/remanufactured goods equals someone 's failure,someone out there have gone bellyup and now you have a chance to buy it cheap and make a buck.
This kind of supplies will dry up .
My advice will be to find a job outside Ebay and make selling on Ebay a part time hobby!
Or better,forget about Ebay and just find a job in another industry!
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
posted on January 12, 2005 09:24:00 AM new
I'm among the many who has already given up. The categories I sold in were being overrun with two kinds of sellers: Factory-direct types who could flood the category with cheap merchandise and dabblers who were selling stuff for less than they probably paid for it. Either way, I couldn't compete. The exponential increase in flaky bidders and the piling-on of fees were the final nails in the coffin.
This year is the first time in a long time that I haven't faced tax season with a feeling of impending dread. And now I just lurk occasionally on these boards to remember what I don't have to deal with any more!
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on January 12, 2005 09:27:07 AM new
"Heck, I live in Cleveland. I'm used to weathering the storms especially during winter. The weather is worse than eBay these days."
living in Cleveland is alot worse than Ebay these days.
And now I just lurk occasionally on these boards to remember what I don't have to deal with any more!