posted on July 4, 2008 03:17:34 PM new
In a little celebration of the Independence and the 4th of July (or is that OF?) I want to talk a little bit about something OT.
I've been drinking too much. And I've gained too much weight and I've become disgusted with myself. I came back from the doctors office a couple of weeks ago and started doing some research online about Antabuse and stopping drinking and found a program called My Way Out.
It seemed to make a lot of sense to me so I bought the book and liked everything I read in it so I made another appointment with my doctor after writing her a letter explaining everything about the program and what I intended to do and asking if she would prescribe the medication Topamax they recommend. She agreed and I am on my 4th day of medication and I have to say this is the most AMAZING thing I have ever experienced in my life.
They prescribe Topamax for Migraine headaches but found out somewhere along the way that they quit drinking. So they started doing clinical trials and found out that it helps binge eating, OCD, alcoholics, smoking, cocaine, etc.
If you think this might be anything that could help you or anyone you know you can read the book online here:
My doctor was very enthusiastic about it also and said she has had a lot of success with it for the people that can stand the side effects. From what I understand the side effects only last a couple of weeks and since I don't work or have to go anywhere I don't think they sound so bad if they even happen.
Literally - the desire to drink just goes....away. You just don't think about it. How amazing is that?!
posted on July 4, 2008 04:16:01 PM new
How amazing is that....very, because it works for so many different addictions.
Could this be the miracle drug that works even if the patient does not have a strong desire to quit.
Most anti addiction drugs require a lot of willpower & councilling. They are looking for a drug that just stops them without misery.
Good for you GG for speaking out & sharing a problem & information others might need & good for you for asking for help.
My best friends daughter died June 2007 from alcholism. Trying to hide the smell of her drinking she even resorted to Dollar Store mouthwash. Tracey suffered from jaundice, ascites, esophageal varicies, cirrhosis & a severe case of cellulitis in her legs from her swollen stretched skin. She died at 48 in Hospice.
We never knew a thing about Topomax & no doctor ever mentioned it to her.
posted on July 4, 2008 04:26:41 PM new
well I think you do have to have the desire in some respect - which I do. I'm also doing the vitamin supplements Kudzu and Lglut and I'm supposed to be getting the hypno CD's that someone is going to be sending me. But it made sense to me that it's a chemical imbalance for me. Because I never used to have a problem with alcohol and then it just happened. But I've noticed after I started the Topamax that I've quit chewing my fingernails and reading as much so I figured those were OCD related and I didn't even know.
posted on July 4, 2008 04:43:35 PM new
Good for you! I grew up in a family of teetotalers and never developed a desire for anything more than a glass of wine with dinner on the weekend. Now if someone said I had to give up coffee... Pass the Topamax!
Hang in, I am sure the rewards will be worth it.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on July 4, 2008 04:57:13 PM new
I had a real substance abuse problem until I had a child; I tried to stop prior to that but didn't have the willpower. Shortly after my daughter was born, I had an epiphany: what if she needed medical attention or something else, and because I was high, I didn't take care of it? What would the rest of my life be like; could I ever forgive myself?
That's what worked for me. My daughter will be 26 years old this month. I've known people for whom 12-step programs work, anti-depressants work for some, whatever works for you, BINGO!
I wish you all the best in your struggle. And, while I hope that it doesn't happen, don't assume a fall off the wagon means you're doomed, you're not. Just climb back on board, you're in good company.
posted on July 4, 2008 10:56:09 PM new
Glassgirl: I applaud you for speaking out. My best friend, who's 75, realized a couple of years ago that she had a problem with wine, went to AA, and now is helping others. Two relatives of ours have been helped enormously by AA. Topamax sounds like a miracle drug, and if it can keep me from over-eating, I'd be thrilled.
_____________________
[ edited by roadsmith on Jul 4, 2008 10:57 PM ]
posted on July 5, 2008 07:10:44 AM new
While, chemicals and there are several, may take away the physical urge to drink, eat,or smoke they do little to fix what is going on in our heads. For that we need more. The 12 step programs offer the more & its free.
One can take a pill everyday of their lives or follow the 12 steps of a program that has worked for millions for more than 65 years.
The final choice is of course a personal one and what ever you choose I hope it works. I only know what has worked for me for the past 27 years.
posted on July 5, 2008 05:50:47 PM new
glassgrl: I'm not a binge eater; I just eat more than I should, daily. Still, the drug sounds promising!
_____________________
posted on July 5, 2008 09:17:13 PM new
What I dont understand is cocaine.
From what I read,some can get hooked from the first usage,as the experience is so powerful,the person keep trying to re live the experience.
If so,how does cocaine make such a powerful imprint on the brain?
*
Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on July 6, 2008 05:42:58 AM new
So,can we use cocaine to test patients who may have any neuro degeneative disease where dopamaine has been depleted or in decline due to cell damage/loss such as Parkinson,Progressive supranuclear palsy,alzheimer or MSA?
*
Google does not hire stupid people.
posted on July 6, 2008 05:54:52 AM new
That's a really good plan... just kidding.
IIRC, I read somewhere years ago that cocaine was being looked into for narcolepsy. I don't know if there's a dopamine connection; probably a researcher looking for a drug connection
posted on July 6, 2008 06:44:24 AM new
ok - I want to apologize for my Tom Cruise remark. BUT...RJ - the woman who wrote the book and Dr. Linda Garcia MD both have said that long time AA'ers will turn their nose up at this method.
I say it's more like we used to yank our teeth out with pliers in the *good old days* and now we have Novocaine and Gas to make things much more bearable.
I just have to say this stuff is a blessing!
If you haven't yet - read the book - pass it on. It's 87 pages.
It's a bit like me complaining about today's computer programmers because they didn't pay their dues like I did, back in the day with punch cards and 1 shot at the computer per day.
It's human nature to dismiss the way that is easier than the one you used. People get invested in what worked for them.
Given the stakes involved, my feeling is that anything that works is legitimate. I used fear for my daughter's well-being, someone else can use faith, someone else can use a pill, IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you can modify a dangerous and health-destroying behavior, do it. Use whatever works. If 2 things work, do them both. This is one of those cases where the destination is more important than how you get there.
I think that most of us understood that no real hurt was intended by the Cruise remark.
posted on July 6, 2008 07:50:49 AM new
I grew up in an Asian society where there is no law saying underage is not allowed to drink.
We have fancy bottles of whiskey,brandy,gin etc on the side table for decoration because the bottles are so attractive and the color vibrant! Kids dont like the taste of alchohol and they dont drink enough to find out its effects,we were busy thinking of where we can find more coca cola,ice cream,beef jerky to eat!
As we get older,we learn to engage in social drinking,but few indulge in heavy drinking or any form of substance abuse unless you call gambling substance abuse !
I think gambling does to Asian what alcohol and drug do to the occidental,you find more Asian dealers and gamblers in casinos.
Asians also drink with their meals,they dont just drink ,they have to drink and eat together.My parents have been drinking at din din time for many years since the kids left and I notice they have become dependent on alcohol,around 7 pm,if they dont get a shot of their favorite booze,they get cranky and hostile.
They stopped going out to dinner in restaurants for that reason,they cant stand the traffic delay ,any thing which stands in the way of them having a drink at 7 pm sharp they remove from their schedule.
At their age,this is one of the few things in life they enjoy,so more power to them,stay home and drink at 7 pm sharp!
*
Google does not hire stupid people.
[ edited by hwahwa on Jul 6, 2008 07:52 AM ]
posted on July 6, 2008 09:18:38 AM new
From wikipedia:
"Ordinarily, alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) is responsible for conversion of primary alcohols to aldehydes; aldehydes are then converted to carboxylic acids by aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH). In the case of ethanol, the alcohol found in alcoholic beverages, ethanol is converted first into acetaldehyde and then into acetic acid. Acetaldehyde is the most toxic of these three compounds, and is both a possible carcinogen and a major cause of hangovers; ethanol's toxicity is lower, and acetic acid is relatively harmless.
50% of the Pacific Rim Asian population inherit a mutant ADH known as ADH2*2 that leads to faster-than-normal degradation of ethanol to acetaldehyde. ADH deformities are not usually found in Caucasians, Native Americans, etc (Agarwal and Goedde, 1992). Moreover, 45-53% of the Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, and Korean population possess a mutant ALDH2 known as ALDH2*2, which is only 8% as effective as the normal, wild-type enzyme (ALDH*1). This mutant allele of ALDH2 is dominant, as it interferes with the formation of a fully functional ALDH2 tetramer [3]. The result is the accumulation of acetaldehyde. Approximately half of people of Asian descent are considered to be sensitive to alcohol due to this condition. [4] Flushing, after consuming one or two alcoholic beverages, includes a range of symptoms: nausea, headaches, light-headedness, an increased pulse, occasional extreme drowsiness, and occasional skin swelling and itchiness. These unpleasant side effects often prevent further drinking that may lead to further inebriation, but the symptoms can lead to mistaken assumption that the people affected are more easily inebriated than others."
This also happens to be the mechanism behind Antabuse.
FWIW, I also experience the symptoms associated with this syndrome. There are ways around it, but I've considered it a blessing rather than a problem. It's not as though I need something else to worry about
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Jul 6, 2008 09:19 AM ]
posted on July 6, 2008 09:36:15 AM new
Interesting !
Most Asians do experience these symptoms when they start drinking,I thought it was because they are not used to alcohol,but some do overcome these symptoms if they persist.
American Indians have problem too,not sure if it is the same as Asians,but it seems that they cant handle their liquor?
Asian also suffer from a case of 'lactose intolerance',lacking the enzyme to breakdown that milk sugar found in dairy products,altho now you can take OTC pills to overcome this problem.
posted on July 6, 2008 01:48:39 PM new
The theory, which does have some credence, is that people whose ancestors lived in Europe had selection pressures for alcohol tolerance, since water was frequently mixed with alcohol to counteract the nasty microbes in the water.
This wasn't the case in Asia and most other places, where the water sources were either cleaner, or water was boiled.
With alcohol, lactose, and so many other dietary issues, it probably makes sense to eat more like your ancestors than your (current) neighbors. A diet that is perfectly fine for someone descended from northern Sweden is probably a bad idea for someone from Mexico, and v.v.
posted on July 6, 2008 02:19:48 PM new
WOW, this is very interesting. Congrats glassgrl. My son has a drinking problem, I read some of the side effects of the medicines and it said they can cause "lack of concentration" and "drowsiness", because he is also ADHD, that could be a problem for him. I can going to try to approach this subject with him. Thanks for the info.
posted on July 6, 2008 03:07:26 PM new
it's not something you'd want to undertake if you have a high tech job. My prescription says take it at night but I haven't yet - I was so anxious to get started on it I immediately took one.
the effects are supposed to mellow out over time once you get used to it. there is a forum over there that specifically talks about the effects of the medications.
to me it feels kind of like a Valium which is not a bad effect at all. if I sit too long yeah I do get kind of sleepy.
I'd definately have a good talk with the Dr before I brought it up with your son to see if it's possible or maybe even post over there on the forum and see if anybody over there knows about ADHD. There are other meds besides Topa.
[ edited by glassgrl on Jul 6, 2008 03:08 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2008 03:55:18 PM new
cash re dopamine/narcolepsy connection - I have not been diagnosed with narcolepsy but I suspect I have a version of it. When I do not have nicotine in my system (whether through smoking, patch or gum), I sleep. I fall asleep midsentence. I fall asleep in planes, cars, movies, lectures, concerts, church etc. I fell asleep in the dentist's chair while having a root canal! I fell asleep while planning my father's funeral. I fall asleep at the computer, sitting upright in a chair, sitting at a table while having a post dinner talk with friends. I guess this is the reason I have such a hard time kicking the nasty cigarette habit. I am quitting AGAIN next week and plan on being on the patch forever. I am convinced there is a dopamine connection.
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... funny you should mention that. In addition to my other failings, I have ADD and a sleep debt larger than the national deficit. I have fallen asleep mid-sentence (okay, I was reclining on the couch at the time, but it was an interesting conversation and I was the one talking!).
A shrink friend of mine recommended that I chew Nicorette, which I've been doing for years. Between that and doodling on a pad, I can pay attention at meetings.
I remember Modafanil from the old days (20 years ago at least) when there was a movement called Smart Drugs that encouraged the use of pharmaceuticals, vitamins, amino acids, etc. for the enhancement of mental function. Maybe I should read up on it; thank you Glassgrl for reminding me.
PS Neglus: the shrink said it was absolutely the case that there's a dopamine connection.
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Jul 6, 2008 06:12 PM ]
