"People question my loyalty," Reingold continued. "They say, 'You don't support America.' And I say, 'Sure I do. I work here. I was born here. I pay taxes. I just have a problem with the ruling class.'"
Reingold's not sure, but he's next to positive that his First Amendment workout got him a visitation from the FBI.
The FBI, you will recall, has begun knocking on the doors of an estimated 85 people in the Bay Area who are among 5,000 in the nation singled out as "potential witnesses." They are men ages 18-33 who possess visas and passports from Arab and Muslim countries where there are known Al Qaeda operatives.
As it turns out, the list of 5,000 is a much smaller subset of an even larger group of people being interviewed. From Sept. 11 to November alone, the FBI received more than 435,000 tips.
And, as Reingold found out, you don't have to be Arab or Muslim to get nominated for a house call.
"I have a speaker downstairs in my apartment building to let people in," Reingold said. "One afternoon, someone buzzes. And I said, 'Who's there?' And they say, 'The FBI.' And I'm thinking, 'Why is the FBI here?'"
He buzzed them into the building and met them in the hallway. There were two young men, one white, one black, apparently in their 20s. Reingold asked them for ID, and the two flashed him their badges.
"And so I asked them what this was all about," Reingold recalled. "And they asked me if I was a member of the gym [in San Francisco]. And I said yes.
"And then they said someone in the gym had reported that I had been talking about terrorism and Sept. 11, oil profits, capitalism and Afghanistan," Reingold said. "And I said, 'Oh, really.'"
Reingold didn't think about calling a lawyer. "At the time, I was sort of shaken up," he admitted to me. "If I were in my right mind, I probably would have met them outside the building, where I could have witnesses for all to see this. Or at least have pencil and paper to take the agents' names and notes."
But he didn't.
"And then the FBI guy said, 'You know you have the right to freedom of speech,'" Reingold recalled. "And I said, 'Yes, I know I do, don't I? And that's the end of the conversation. I don't wish to talk to you any further.'"
posted on January 31, 2002 01:08:41 PM new
Yes, and now that bush has called for people to volunteer to be watchers for suspicious activities we'll soon have a nation filled with tattletales taking out their resentments by reporting anyone around them. And children will be taught to report on their parents.
I've got a useless neighbor named Leonard for whom such a role must have been tailor made. Always a pain in the ass, he'll be doubly so now that he thinks it's his patriotic duty.
I think that I'll start wearing a turban. Maybe a white robe, too.
posted on January 31, 2002 03:28:10 PM new
LoL! And tell him that a few of your brothers are moving in shortly because their homes were destroyed by Bush.
Assure him that none of your brothers are evil doers and that you will try to keep their camels off his property. HaHaHa!
posted on January 31, 2002 05:49:11 PM new
I know that many of you think that I am tinged with just a bit of paranoia ... maybe even laugh about it. Well, laugh no more! I'm telling you that the real purpose of the Office of Homeland Security is to go after American citizens - you'll see!
I have ALWAYS expected the government to come and pay me a visit, due to my large, open, protesting mouth. That I badmouth those who support the fascist regeime that I can't stand and that I instigate others to feel the same way (or at least question what they've been taking for granted) marks me as "a troublemaker." While they can't do anything much to me right now, I suspect that my name is on a List somewhere, while they patiently wait for the First Amendment to be eroded enough to come and arrest me for Disloyalty. Don't laugh! It's a lot closer to us than you think!
KRS: Careful pissing off your neighbors: you're in Oregon now! Remember what I said about it being like the 1930's in the South and bodies that dissappear in the middle of the night? While yours might not go missing, it can be made to wish it lived elsewhere than where you're at. Don't take the lazy little town where you live for granted.
posted on January 31, 2002 09:56:53 PM new
Given this group's prediliction to invent scenarios, I could suggest 1 or 2 dozen additional ones, including:
1) It never happened (as in Damn! if I only had witnesses! OOOps I forgot their names.) I've talked to FBI agents several times and they are never rude, but of course that wouldn't fit if this was a quest for 15 min of fame.
2) If it did happen, the self quote was probably not what was said. In which case, glad to see the FBI is doing it's job.
An aquaintence of a friend was visited by the Secret Service after making a comment about Clinton in a supermarket.
First off the guy is obviously a nut. Why would you call the owner of the gym to complain????
Complain about what??? Maybe the gym should post a sign asking patrons not to drop the dime on anybody?
posted on February 1, 2002 12:51:45 AM new
Borillar,
I'm not in Oregon yet. We had to abort escrow because the continencies of my offer were not met, and it came to within three days of closing. I'd already granted two extensions because we really liked the place, but there continued to be discoveries of facts not disclosed by the seller. I made a new much lower offer without contingencies but she declined. So we're back to looking. Very much looking in your wine country around McMinnville, Newberg, Amity, Dayton, and Dundee. I've never been over on that side of the highway, but my wife drove all over in there the last time she went by herself.
posted on February 1, 2002 08:11:20 AM new
Sorry to hear about your deal falling through. Boring is a very nice forested area at the toes of Mount Hood. McMinville through Newberg and such is farmland and you tend to get thouse who are used to planting corn by the moon -- meaning that while really nice folk, they tend to be very simple people. The towns of Newberg and McMinville itself has the same industry: Section-8 Housing. These two twons are where they warehouse the young women who have kids with no support. Consequently, Meth use is very high there (Oregon being the Meth capital of the United Sates). Those towns, and the towns inbetween tend to be roadside towns; that is, they exist because of Hwy-99. The smaller towns inbetween get their income from speed traps, where the speed limit gets changed almost daily (and the placement of signage as well). That fog tends to accumulate in the area is no hinderance to the deputies to catch "wrongdoers" speeding through the town lends great creedance to the mentality there. Amity and Dayton are really nice litle farmtowns, as the Menenites have settled the Valley, so the towns tend to be lazy and quiet and polite.
If you really want to live in a nicer area in northwestern Oregon, KRS, I'd suggest Forest Grove area on West. It is on the edge of civiliztion, just a few miles outside of Hillsboro west of Portland off of Hwy-26. Once again, it is an Agrarian area, but a very nice one. That area or the Wilsonville area, just due south of Portland, is my choice.
posted on February 1, 2002 11:36:52 AM new
actually krs the white robe might get you in a lot more trouble with the zionist occupation government (ZOG) than the turban.
regular activists are harassed people Like Rockwell, Silkwood, Hoffa or Malcolm x are mrurdered outright.
posted on February 4, 2002 11:38:15 PM new
Borillar: Those Yamhill county towns survive in spite of Hwy 99, not because of it. It is faster to walk through downtown Newberg than drive through it. Dundee traffic backs up almost all the way to Newberg during peak hours, and it isn't getting better. Even if they built a bypass, the traffic would be back to what it currently is now in twenty years (according to ODOT).
On Hwy 99, it is ODOT who sets the speed limits, because it is a state highway. In the sections where ODOT has just "fixed" the highway, we did get some speed limit changes, but other than those, the limits have not changed for years. Besides, your chances of getting a ticket for speeding in most Yamhill county cities are very slim, since cities don't have $$ for adequate police services. Newberg has half the police most cities this size have and we will likely lose more next year due to budget constraints. There is nothing left to cut here unless we decimate the library funding. Newberg makes the bulk of its operating funds on systems development charges (water, sewer, streets) for new housing. New housing is off the last couple years, so money is tight.
Next time you drive through one of those small towns that is disected by Hwy 99, think what it would be like for kids to try and cross if the speed limits were not 25. From the edge of Newberg all the way to McMinnville, there is only one traffic signal.
I couldn't speak to McMinnville (Mudville), but Newberg and Dundee are very conservative politically. The area was first settled by Quakers (Friends), and you can't swing a dead cat here without running into another church. Newberg has just under 20K population, and 35 churches. George Fox University holds major bigtime clout here (as if they contributed anything positive).
Twenty years ago, your comment that the people here are simple might have been true. Now these are just bedroom communities for Portland. The new developments on the north side of Newberg and the hills in Dundee look like they belong in Beaverton to me...giant behemoths with no yards. Ugh.
McMinnville is far enough from Portland that it actually has jobs and is pretty much a self-sustaining city in its own right. Other than Mudville, there are few jobs here. Meth IS a huge problem here, and for some unknown reason, there are more convicted child molesters in Yamhill county than any other Oregon county.
I do agree that Boring is pretty, but damn it's cold there. You get those gorge winds that go right through ya. My brother used to live in Damascus and they got serious snow every winter...we are lucky to get one halfway decent snow day every few years. Love the rolling hills though.
You've described pretty well what we're finding. At first I was amazed at the amount of traffic into and out of what were very rural areas when I knew them, but it didn't take long to realize that I had known them nearly 30 years ago.
I'm not much interested in the towns really, because we don't intend to be IN any of them and will use them for shopping only. What we are trying to maintain is a reasonable proximity to both Portland and Salem. Reasonable for our purpose is around fifty miles and weighted toward the south, toward Salem. Also we're trying to second guess the future traffic patterns as well as can be done. All we want is a place to avoid the development for some twenty more years. Should be easy, right? The I-5 corridor is crowded with development past Canby now, they're bumper to bumper going through Gresham toward Boring and it's only a matter of a short time before Boring is swallowed up as well.
There are areas that look to be outside of the easy flow of growth. By that I mean areas in which the regulatory agencies have placed limitations which make it more difficult for the monster. Restricting zoning, limiting building permits, and other protective action which send the fast buck people off looking somewhere else.
It is apparently a relaively new problem for Oregon. I've been in the San Francisco bay area for most of my life and have watched it grow--sometimes with little control as seems to be the case in Milwaukie, OR for example. But somtimes with a view to the long term effect of non-restrictive community policies, as seems to be the case in Lake Oswego,OR - right across a bridge from Milwaukie.
The drug problems you have are pretty small change when compared to those in an urban area. More visible probably, but not so damaging.
We know that we might be too late to find what we want in Oregon. So we'll look somewhere else - already have been, actually but we're both hooked on trees.
posted on February 5, 2002 01:30:27 AM new
Krs:
Trying to guess the future traffic patterns is tricky. The state pretty much tries to force cities to plan for massive growth; only a few places have the cajones to object.
St. Paul is in North Marion county (which includes Salem). They are as rural as you can get and even though it is a teeny tiny town, they are dead serious about fighting any developments that will change the face of their town. I really admire it...they have some of the best agricultural land in the entire country (they grow hops, lotsa hops) and we don't have to pave every last speck of farm land to accomodate growth.
The cool thing about St.Paul is you can hit either Newberg or Salem for shopping (unless you need feed or horsey crap - that you can get locally). But there must be other towns that are anti-growth..something has to make up for cities like Sherwood which seemed strangely happy about taking on as much growth as it could get (they conned the locals with promises of reduced property taxes).
I think that eventually enough people will get tired of the suburban traffic that we will see a trend towards more serious infill of the urban areas. Or at least more development of cities that make some sense. I know you are looking for rural land, but check out Orenco station...just to see what one city came up with. They are on the Hwy 26 corridor and basically planned the city around using light rail. Kind of a neat concept.
I imagine that the big city drug problems are very different than what we have. I grew up in Inglewood, then used to ride a bus through Compton to get to work - I very well remember how drugs can devastate a city. And you are right, its nothing like that here.
When we first moved out here a dozen years ago, I figured I would have to drive back to Portland on a regular basis for shopping. It sure hasn't worked out that way. I got so used to living with what is available out here and mailing away for most of what I can't get. I thought this was as far into the sticks as I could stand, but these days I long for enough land that I could have my own heap of rusted, unused farm implements that no one would notice. My neighbors think we should mow the lawn or something - the trade off for being able to walk to the post office.
Good luck with your search!
posted on February 5, 2002 02:13:53 AM new
Thanks.
You wonder who elected the town council or the mayor in some places. Scott's Valley, a one time logging center in the Santa Cruz mountains down here has consistently rolled over for dollars for over 25 years. A few of the silicon valley companies took advantage of the relatively low tax base and the numerous enticements offered by that city to build their corporat bases. Seagate, Borlund, and Plantronics had notable presence but where are they now? Houston, last I heard. Scott's Valley is left with great big office buildings and oversize warehouses standing empty because there's nothing in Santa Cruz county to support them. It's a good example of lack of foresight and the kicker is that many of the residents simply stood by and watched the show. Had there been a strong involvement then Scott's Valley might have a chance today but it's been reduced to a bedroom community with not much room for new housing. I drove through there every day for 20 years on my way to work and if I'd had the mindset that I have now...............well, my first wife would be rich.
I'm somewhat restricted by a need to be within range of a VA hospital and those in Oregon are in Portland and Roseburg. We've sort of rejected Roseburg for few reasons, notably the heat and the floods, so we're hard at it in the areas that I've mentioned. I'm accessed into the professional RE listing sites so don't have to mess with the likes of realtor.com I've got a good agent up there who knows what I want. I bought him a digital camera so he can go to a place that intrests me, take pictures that concentrate on any undesireable aspects as well as the good parts, and have them to me within a hour of havng taken them. So this will work, or it won't.
It had better, really, because I bought a pretty heavy machine tool from a guy in Aurora and he's going to keep it for me until we get there. LOL!
posted on February 6, 2002 06:49:04 AM new
Good Luck with it all Ken. Sounds like you have a nice sysyem worked out for checking it out.
Please call me Charlotte so I don't have ta change my ID.
posted on February 6, 2002 08:51:01 AM new
Shhhhh! You're letting readers onto the conclusion that Oregon is where they WANT to move to!
Actually, I'd like to clarify a few of my comments. While Hwy-99 is indeed a state highway, there are other conciderations. For instance, the town of Layfeyette. Hwy-99 used to run through there, but then, a bypass was built. The road there is now in the hands of the township. That is the worst of the speed traps. There are other examples of the same.
As far as the make-up of the towns of Newberg and McMinville, you have to realize that the main industry isn't just Allen Machinery or Smurfitt Paper: it's Section-8 housing. Portland has had only a limited amount of Section-8 housing and its usual practice of how to handle the massive overflow is to farm-out the section-8 recipients to the rural areas. While Sandy got some, Newberg catered to the demand and up went all of those rentals on the south side of town. The churches flourished. George Fox college produces a lot of young folk whose mission it is in life, it seems, is to make sure that everyone is converted to the Lord - whether they want to or not sometimes. Newberg itself is a place where the railroad tracks meet the highway. Dundee is indeed conservative and a workable bypass was recently shot down by "The Thousand Bigots of Oregon." Opps! I meant, The Thousand "Friends" of Oregon! Uh huh. An alternate bypass that will leave Dundee in the same mess that it is in now within 8 to 10 years is the alternative plan sponsored by the Thousand Bigots of Oregon and some locals whose names I won't mention here.
Then, Saint Paul. Very nice rural area, as is O'Connor [sic?] just south of that. You could even find what you are looking for in Donald, although I hear that the Sherriff grows the same crops as do some of the younger folk there (that was a while ago, though). Pretty much: mind your own business, don't stir up a fuss unless everybody's got an interest, and you'll likely be welcomed after twenty or so years of living there (it takes thirty years of living here to be considered an Oregonian. That may not be true in the less rural areas anymore, of course.)
As far as those beautifully wooded hilltops that run west to east on the west side of Portland and the towns that we've discussed: yes, they've been raped by developers who somehow ($$$) got the yard-to-home size restriction changed and it reminds me of homes back east of the Mississippi, where neightbors can look directly into the next door neighbor's living room and read their newspaper! >>YECH!!<< Only idiots from back east would buy those homes anyway and they are a blight to the eyes. I wish that they ahd left the hilltops alone so that everyone could enjoy the outdoorsey feeling. But now, it looks more like southern California. DREK!
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 6, 2002 06:16:49 PM new
Borillar wrote,
"While Hwy-99 is indeed a state highway, there are other conciderations. For instance, the town of Layfeyette. Hwy-99 used to run through there, but then, a bypass was built. The road there is now in the hands of the township. That is the worst of the speed traps. There are other examples of the same."
Hwy 99 still runs through Lafayette. I believe you are confusing Hwy 18 with 99 there. Lafayette's speed limit is still controlled by the state and has not changed in the 25 years I've been in Oregon.
Borillar, I don't understand your comment that Newberg's biggest industry is section 8 housing. The city gets the same systems development charges from all new housing..there is no special benefit to allowing cheaper housing as far as systems development charges go. I don't know how things work in other cities, but I know exactly how it works here...our two main revenue sources are property taxes and the systems development charges (SDC). SDC can only be spent on certain things: water, sewer, streets. The property taxes all go into the general fund and get spent on Police, Fire, city government, library. It confuses the hell out of the locals who think the city council/ budget committee can move money around however they like, but it just doesn't work that way.
The five largest employers here are:
A-Dec (dental equipment)
Smurfit (newsprint paper mill)
EFTC (formerly Current Electronics)
Quality Plastics (plastic injection molding)
Allen Machinery (food processing equipment)
nuttin about section 8 housing! I really am baffled by your comment that its the major funding.
Borillar, I agree that the bypass situation is a mess. What is really needed is a regional bypass that goes from I-5 all the way to the Mudville bypass, but that means Marion County would have had to agree to it. They refuse to budge at all on anything that loses an inch of farm land. I agree that in general we want to preserve lots of farm land and not plaster it all with housing, but there are occasions where it seems fair to give up a little. If they had a serious no build zone around the bypass and only a handful of entrances and exits for the bypass, we could do this with a minimum of land. In general, I do not usually agree with 1000 Friends, but I have sometimes found myself siding with them. And its really handy when you need them...they have enough political clout to be helpful (and enough to be a disaster when you don't agree).
One more Borillar comment...this cracked me up,"developers who somehow ($$$) got the yard-to-home size restriction changed and it reminds me of homes back east of the Mississippi, where neightbors can look directly into the next door neighbor's living room and read their newspaper!"
Not only are too many houses on postage stamp sized lots, what is with this thing where the garage is considered to be an architectural feature?? Yeah, stick those ugly things right out in front just like they look good. EWWWW. A garage is a lousy replacement for a front porch.
--------------------------------------
KRS: Here's a handy web site for looking up stuff on any Oregon city...it has profiles on every city with some handy info:
While Hwy-99 is indeed a state highway, there are other conciderations. For instance, the town of Layfeyette. Hwy-99 used to run through there, but then, a bypass was built. The road there is now in the hands of the township. That is the worst of the speed traps. There are other examples of the same.
http://www.oregon.gov/index.cfm?CurrPID=11535
KRS, sounds like you have a good method for looking for a place...cool. Hope that your agent finds something that fits for ya.
posted on February 6, 2002 07:05:57 PM new"Borillar, I don't understand your comment ..."
I'd kindly like to say that I guess you don't get it. While you and I and KRS know what Oregon is like, I am trying to give other readers a different impression. KRS and I have been going back and forth on this for a while, with me relating negative impressions to his positive ones. Just some humor, although it is true that Portland did form out Section-8 and welfare families to the rural areas in the 1970's and 80' until whenever it may have changed. Newberg increased in size, I distinctly recall, because of it and back in 1980 when no one had a job, the income that Newberg derived from those Section-8 folks did make a difference; albeit, not as significantly as I was teasing KRS about.
As for Layfeyette: you can claim about it's speed limit and where the speed signs sit, but I've seen'm moved and changed. Mostly everyone I know has gotten a speeding ticket there and have screamed bloody murder about the signage. I haven't gotten a speeding ticket yet, so I can't say for sure.
Yah, the housing is ridiculous. The more housing you build, the more folks move here to live in them. The solution to urban sprawl is to simply stop issuing new home building permits.
Borillar
"Friends don't let friends vote republican"
posted on February 6, 2002 08:09:26 PM new
Borillar: Where are ALL these people coming from anyway?? I usually use the RAIN to discourage people from moving here - ya can't deny that it's true. I just looked it up - we get an average of 41 inches a year. My mom lives on the coast, it is almost always raining there - 76 inches a year! A lot of us get really whiny and depressed from the lack of light. And every year, I wonder if the rain is going to stop by the Fourth of July for my daughter's birthday party (it always has, but only with a couple of days to spare). It doesn't stay this green by accident.
I remember when my uncle (a retired firefighter) moved up here he was all concerned about these millions of trees burning. They ended up in Astoria after he decided that the trees couldn't burn if they never dried out.
And I must be losing it. Can't believe I missed an opportunity to b*tch about George Fox. Grrrrr. They have had record enrollment for a decade now, they must be accepting everyone (including students who have been caught doing some serious burglaries and one who murdered someone). Instead of building more student housing, they keep buying the older houses and gutting them and overfilling them with students. Does great things for parking around here, not to mention the fact that as an educational institution, those houses are all taken off the tax rolls and I get to subsidize them. That one really bugs me. But if you say anything negative in town, you get some nonsense about what a great asset they are. Asses maybe.
We have two houses full of their employees and students across the street. I honestly have NO clue who is living there from week to week, only that between the two houses, they have no less than 13 cars and exactly ONE off street parking space. One. Yep, a real asset.
Borillar: are you in Portland? I think it's almost unrecognizable from when we first came up here until I see those hills in Beaverton...yeegads those things are ugly now. Oh, I know how they come up with names for the new housing developments. Ya name them after what it is you ripped out or paved over to build 'em.
Well, my guy reports a very disappointing day today in McMinnville/Newberg. Even though he prsrcreens places to visit on the telephone, today he said that his idea of 100 ft. must be much different from the norm. One of my stipulations is that there be no intrusively visible neighbors. I don't mean that there can't be a house nearby, only that no one looks over me or directly at me as I come and go. One thing we've decided to look for is that my house be set off of any road by at least 100 feet. Some people seem to think that 30 feet is a long way and so must be at least 100.
The rain won't work with me although I know it's effect on a psyche too well and wouldn't recommend that anyone move into it without long prior experience. My house in Santa Cruz is in mountains above that town and in an area notorious for it's heavy annual rainfall which averages around 75 inches. 1981 set records and we had 131 inches for the year. I was the official rainman for that canyon and called my readings in to the Santa Cruz Sentinel every day for five years. I lived there for 20 years and may end up going back to it except that it's a good place for the person I was and perhaps I'm not that person now. Also it's a cash cow as a rental.
But politics! You think to deter a California liberal minded article II afficienado by the use of politics? Borillar?? Save your breath! Oregon is a freedom lover's wonderland in comparison to this state.
Not speedtraps either. I expect to be tooling around in a diesel powered truck. If stopped I'll ask the cop if he's kidding, once I've mastered the peculiar inflections used by Oregonians.
posted on February 7, 2002 07:39:06 AM new
I'm in Tigard, argh (southwestern boarder of Portland). Sory to say that although my impresion ofNewberg is that it is a clean and mostly quiet little town where the railroad tracks meets the highway, it also "feels" depressing to me. I guess that I'm fueng-shwey [sic] sensitive.
KRS: Mullala/Milino has yet to be discovered by the hoards of people rushing to go live in Oregon while there are still green trees left. A very sleepy area. Unfortunately, I have seldom been out that way and so, can not give you any real info. Maybe arg can help you out.
Politically and freedom, Oregon is right up there with Alaska. Oregon was settled by people who HATED authority of any sort and were true frontiersmen; being totally self-sufficient. If you aren't self-sufficient, then there must be something wrong with you. And Oregonians want to be left alone, but not in an unfriendly way. They just do not want to be hounded by religions, government, and others that they don't know. Strangers are largly unwelcome if they stay too long. THAT sort of impression.
But now, with the influx of Californians and Texans in particular, those real Oregonians are a dying breed. That has made for a real mix in the population here. We get a lot of spanish-speaking types here, who seem to go crazy from the massive amounts of never-ending rainfall and dark, overcast days.
Politically, Portland and Salem together has had the equivelent in population to the rest of the state. In the cities is why you find the liberals, in the countryside you find a mixed bag raning from die-hard right-wing conservatives and libertarians to pinko-commie left Liberals and frontiersmen. A starnge state.
That makes for an interesting comparison. Our state legislature has always been a mirror of the federal one when it comes to the political landscape. Right now, the Oregon legislature is mostly Republican by a very thin margin. I mean, when there is a shift in the makeup of the state legislature, it is immediately reflected by the Federal level. The truely odd thing is that we have a Gore-like Governor; there not being a Bush type to run against and have the state supreme court overturn his election.
